Sad decline of buying fish

[zakelwe]

In the very old days you couldn't get fresh fish unless you lived near to the coast due to lack of transportation and refrigeration, hence why everyone in Derbyshire had Ricketts. But then things got better and you could get a cod that had been caught off the coast of Whitby that weighed 40lb shipped to the middle of the country and it was still pretty good. I remember my mum splashing out on a slice of halibut when I was about 12. It was about 2 inches thick if memory serves me right, it tasted of fish but had the texture of steak. It was yummy. These fish grow huge so even that must have been a small one.

Now things are bad. Not only do you not get 40lb cod off Whitby but your local fishmonger is probably actually your local supermarket where the fish person is only a fishmonger because they wear the fancy hat. Ask them to fillet whole plaice if you want some amusement. And the cost?

Well, Sainsbury's are now doing price in £ per 100g so it looks cheaper. I would imagine that £17 per Kg was putting people off. Compare that price to steak, say you saw a nice 16oz Ribeye or Sirloin steak in the supermarket and they wanted £17 for it, would you pay? That's pub steak prices. So people don't buy fish.

I bought some halibut today from Sainsbury's just because I have not had it for 25 years and want to get back to my childhood. First impressions are not good, it is not 2 inches thick for a start, it is half an inch and is the whole skinned fish it seems so must be very young. It might even be Greenland halibut which isn't proper halibut. Who knows? Cost for this so called Halibut fish, £15.

I'll let you know what it tastes like. I am really worried about it though, the whole supply chain is not good from over fishing at the start to lack of choice and non skilled suppliers for the majority at the end just because of modern day society. Perhaps I am just a middle aged fuddy duddy but we seem to be edging back to the 19thC when trying to eat our native fish

Regards

Andy

[grumbledoak]

Yup, Iceland fought to gain control of it's waters and manage it's stocks.
We invited the Dagos to come overfish our own.

[Lefty Guns]

A fish van comes to our nearest viullage every week and their produce is absolutely superb. You can't guarantee getting the same thing every week and it comes straight from the harbours up and down the NE coast so is beautifyully fresh.

Tell you what though, fish is fking dear these days,

[escargot]

We're fortunate to have a great fishmonger here. I don't think we've bought supermarket fish for a good few years now.

[Mexico.]

The cod you buy up and down the uk and fresh on the london market each morning is not caught in whitby it is landed.

[Matt172]

Mexico. said:

The cod you buy up and down the uk and fresh on the london market each morning is not caught in whitby it is landed.

don't think he said it was caught in Whitby, he said

zakelwe said:

you could get a cod that had been caught off the coast of Whitby

[Big Al.]

Lefty Guns said:

Tell you what though, fish is fking dear these days,

Your right, and regardless of where you buy it it's still an arm and a leg.

Fortunately for me I get the chance to fish in the Solent a couple of times a week so there is usually fresh fish to eat and the odd one for the freezer.

But even with your own boat it ain't cheap... fuel, mooring fees, engine servicing it actually works out cheaper to buy your fish at the fish counter.

But I have to admit that you don't get the fresh air and the free suntan at the fish counter!

[juice]

Reading that, I'm massively appreciative of living where I live. We get fresh (i.e. 1 or 2 hours old) fish on a daily basis..Tuna (mainly yellowfin)/Wahoo/Dolphin(Mahi Mahi)/Spiny Lobster all available.

All line caught so the stocks aren't decimated by nets, thankfully.

[zakelwe]

Yeah, when I was referring to Whitby I was thinking back to the 1980's when I was a young teenager. Boats used to land the fish that day and they were served in the fish and chip shops that night. Nothing beat fish and chips on the pier in those days because

1) They were fresh, thick and cheap done in lard or dripping.
2) Having had a few pints it made you even more hungry.
3) The cold salty sea breeze blowing off the north sea meant it tasted better with your nostrils full of that, smell being so important to taste.

I can see me rapidly turning into one of those " it was better in my day" folk, sadly it is true in regards to fish.

Getting back to my halibut I had it was not half bad, same meatiness I remember on a lesser scale because it was young. Sort of like a more meaty skate if you know what I mean. £15 though? Golly, compare that to the recession thread, half a week.

I need to now buy Dover sole and Turbot to complete 3 of the best fish the UK produces, even if it is from Iceland! By the way Iceland is in such poor financial problems they are now shipping more fish to Hull etc, so I hope this means they do not deplete also, they have been so wise up to now, unlike the rest of Europe.

I actually work in Canary Wharf (boo hiss) and so go past Billingsgate at 5.15am each morning, I will have to pop in there one day and see if I can take some photo's for you (I think this is not allowed though). I have put it off up to now in case I slip over and smell of haddock all day in boring old meetings...

Regards

Andy

[Murph7355]

zakelwe said:

...
I actually work in Canary Wharf (boo hiss) and so go past Billingsgate at 5.15am each morning, I will have to pop in there one day and see if I can take some photo's for you (I think this is not allowed though). I have put it off up to now in case I slip over and smell of haddock all day in boring old meetings......

It is allowed, but you can't really just wander in and start taking photos at the height of the market.

I went on a fish cookery course there ("day" thing - 0530 to 1330 or something like that) which included a tour of the market as well as lessons on how to fillet fish and cook it. Recommended (though not cheap).

The difficulty is that "we" (people generally) continually demand lower prices. It forces different methods of "harvest" which ultimately do us no favours whatsoever. Stocks get to such a low ebb that even the crap stuff is in short supply (to us at least), hence costs a wedge (look at the pitiful seabass fillets M&S knock out).

You can still buy reasonable fish, but you pay through the nose for it. Worth it if you're so inclined though.

Best fish I've had for a long time was in Porto. Very, very, lovely.

[Silver993tt]

Well, if so much fish is coming from Iceland, why isn't is a real bargain then? After all the Icelandic Krona has plummeted in value against allother currencies, especially the £ and €.

[tuffer]

I just paid £15 for two big fillets of Monk fish in Waitrose, and to think a few years ago they used throw it away thinking it was worthless.

[zakelwe]

Murph7355 said:

The difficulty is that "we" (people generally) continually demand lower prices. It forces different methods of "harvest" which ultimately do us no favours whatsoever.

Totally agree, 2 or the worlds most popular fish are cod and tuna, for years those fine fish have been wasted in fish fingers and tins. Oysters of course used to be the poor man's food, perhaps we will have to do the same for those fish as well. What needs to happen is the equivalent of salmon farming, but that is not easy for a lot of fish, though I noticed recently that Turbot were farmed - very small though and not a "real" turbot. It takes a long time for some of these fish to put on mass compared to salmon.

As for why Icelandic fish is still expensive, well they are not giving it away because they need the money and also the people selling it on now find that they can make more profit per kilo.

Regards
Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Saturday 15th August 16:58

[Alfa_75_Steve]

Problem we have in the UK at the moment is that you can either get locally sourced, non-sustainable fish - or you get frozen sustainable stuff from Iceland.

Things have got so bad around the UK that even Mackerel aren't classed as a sustainable species in UK waters.

As an aside - if you think it would be good to have proper butchers and fishmongers in your local supermarket, write to their head office - I don't think any of the big UK supermarkets pay a premium for 'butchers' and 'fishmongers', so they can't attract the skill - or people who want to learn the skills. Which is a shame, as the supermarkets are responsible for many qualified butchers and fishmongers being on the dole....

[jamoor]

don't you have a market nearby?
Castle Market in Sheffield sells fish.

[Silver993tt]

There's loads of lovely freshwater fish (apart from trout), such as Zander, Carp and Pike. These are all widely eaten on the continent. It's a shame that there virtually ignored in the UK. Pike and Zander are particularly very good and very popular in Germany & Austria (also maybe other countries). I love Carp but it is a special taste

[Alfa_75_Steve]

jamoor said:

don't you have a market nearby?
Castle Market in Sheffield sells fish.

Problem with fish markets is that the sellers there won't care about sustainability and probably don't insist on only selling line-caught fish.

[Silver993tt]

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

don't you have a market nearby?
Castle Market in Sheffield sells fish.

Problem with fish markets is that the sellers there won't care about sustainability and probably don't insist on only selling line-caught fish.

Well, if you buy fish advertised as line caught, how do you know they haven't just come from some fish farm in Scotland or the numerous Tuna farms in the Med?

[Alfa_75_Steve]

Silver993tt said:

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

don't you have a market nearby?
Castle Market in Sheffield sells fish.

Problem with fish markets is that the sellers there won't care about sustainability and probably don't insist on only selling line-caught fish.

Well, if you buy fish advertised as line caught, how do you know they haven't just come from some fish farm in Scotland or the numerous Tuna farms in the Med?

Look for sellers with MSC accreditation at the very least.

Also bear in mind that sellers on markets may well not have a huge amount of traceability of their products - whereas a decent fishmonger, or even a supermarket, is able to trace each fish back to a particular boat.

It's something which is being taken very seriously these days - the MSC send in inspectors to look at quality on the counter and check in-store documentation.

Since I've learned about this stuff, it has made me very wary of buying from market stalls - I like a guarantee that I'm getting product from a sustainable, non-trawled source.

Although long-line fishing isn't perfect, it's much better than trawling.

[Silver993tt]

Alfa_75_Steve said:

Silver993tt said:

Alfa_75_Steve said:

jamoor said:

don't you have a market nearby?
Castle Market in Sheffield sells fish.

Problem with fish markets is that the sellers there won't care about sustainability and probably don't insist on only selling line-caught fish.

Well, if you buy fish advertised as line caught, how do you know they haven't just come from some fish farm in Scotland or the numerous Tuna farms in the Med?

Look for sellers with MSC accreditation at the very least.

Also bear in mind that sellers on markets may well not have a huge amount of traceability of their products - whereas a decent fishmonger, or even a supermarket, is able to trace each fish back to a particular boat.

It's something which is being taken very seriously these days - the MSC send in inspectors to look at quality on the counter and check in-store documentation.

Since I've learned about this stuff, it has made me very wary of buying from market stalls - I like a guarantee that I'm getting product from a sustainable, non-trawled source.

Although long-line fishing isn't perfect, it's much better than trawling.

Yes butthere are so many people in the chain between catching a fish and you as an end customer buying it. Documentation can be changed/forged and an inspector will only come around take a glance, it'll look as it should, so he will tick a box. It's the same problem with organic food. It's stamped with an accredited logo/date etc but that stamp could have been forged and used on anything. The larger a market gets (as in sustainably caught fish/organic food) the larger the fraud and deception will be.