Discussion
At that price point - probably just an engraved rotor.
A 'real' 7750 from ETA eats up a few hundred quid so I wouldn't expect vast modification. The VJ7750 is reputed to be a bit of a bugger of a movement to work on anyway, since it was designed to be cheap to make, not to be easy to service.
Still, a 'real' 7750 doesn't make the watch overpriced at 500-600, since VJ7750s are used in much more expensive brands, often without any modification whatsoever. Here's a link to an overview of the 7750, and as you can see, some rather big names use the movement. Franck Muller, for example, aren't cheap
Even my beloved IWC use the movements, though they take the things in as kits and build them themselves swapping certain parts for upgraded bits (usually the hairspring, the balance, the mainspring, and the rotor). The difference there is mostly in the QC, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not an IWC in-house movement...
However the thing to watch out for at the moment is whether the '7750' is actually an ETA 7750 supplied by Swatch, or the so-called 'Asian 7750' which is being produced by Chinese manufacturers. Not through any snobbery whatsoever, but simply because Swatch themselves are cornering the market now they own so many Swiss watch brands, they're making it difficult for the independent watch houses to acquire 'real' ETA movements. You have to order the precise number of each movement you need a year in advance, IIRC, and obviously this is a problem for smaller houses who may not be able to predict demand that accurately. There is therefore much horse-trading between houses to buy needed movements or sell unwanted movements.
There are Chinese companies making reverse-engineered copies of the 7750. They're not Sea-Gull (who have the ST-19 column-wheel chronograph anyway - allegedly they bought the tooling from Switzerland for the Venus 175, though there is controversy as to whether they actually did that or just reverse-engineered it - regardless, the ST-19 is a fine-looking, very robust chrono movement) who I have a lot more respect for due to their own heritage. I think the main suppliers of the 'Asian 7750' are a company called Liaoning, but I'm not sure (it may be that Liaoning is a town, and the factory is in that town). Regardless, they're used in a LOT of the fakes out there, and I suspect they're also being used by small watch houses too, because of the difficulty of getting reliable supply of ETA 7750s due to Swatch.
If it's a genuine Swatch/ETA 7750 then £500 seems about right - you don't see many cheaper genuine 7750-based watches out there, and thus any major modification of the movement would normally result in a much higher sale price. However if it's using the Asian 7750s (there are more than one, I think the main difference is that one factory produces 28,800 rate movements and the other 21,600) then it should be much cheaper. The Asian ones tend to have blue screws, but apart from that it isn't easy to tell unless you take the back off.
I'm not an expert on the 7750 so I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.
A 'real' 7750 from ETA eats up a few hundred quid so I wouldn't expect vast modification. The VJ7750 is reputed to be a bit of a bugger of a movement to work on anyway, since it was designed to be cheap to make, not to be easy to service.
Still, a 'real' 7750 doesn't make the watch overpriced at 500-600, since VJ7750s are used in much more expensive brands, often without any modification whatsoever. Here's a link to an overview of the 7750, and as you can see, some rather big names use the movement. Franck Muller, for example, aren't cheap
Even my beloved IWC use the movements, though they take the things in as kits and build them themselves swapping certain parts for upgraded bits (usually the hairspring, the balance, the mainspring, and the rotor). The difference there is mostly in the QC, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not an IWC in-house movement...
However the thing to watch out for at the moment is whether the '7750' is actually an ETA 7750 supplied by Swatch, or the so-called 'Asian 7750' which is being produced by Chinese manufacturers. Not through any snobbery whatsoever, but simply because Swatch themselves are cornering the market now they own so many Swiss watch brands, they're making it difficult for the independent watch houses to acquire 'real' ETA movements. You have to order the precise number of each movement you need a year in advance, IIRC, and obviously this is a problem for smaller houses who may not be able to predict demand that accurately. There is therefore much horse-trading between houses to buy needed movements or sell unwanted movements.
There are Chinese companies making reverse-engineered copies of the 7750. They're not Sea-Gull (who have the ST-19 column-wheel chronograph anyway - allegedly they bought the tooling from Switzerland for the Venus 175, though there is controversy as to whether they actually did that or just reverse-engineered it - regardless, the ST-19 is a fine-looking, very robust chrono movement) who I have a lot more respect for due to their own heritage. I think the main suppliers of the 'Asian 7750' are a company called Liaoning, but I'm not sure (it may be that Liaoning is a town, and the factory is in that town). Regardless, they're used in a LOT of the fakes out there, and I suspect they're also being used by small watch houses too, because of the difficulty of getting reliable supply of ETA 7750s due to Swatch.
If it's a genuine Swatch/ETA 7750 then £500 seems about right - you don't see many cheaper genuine 7750-based watches out there, and thus any major modification of the movement would normally result in a much higher sale price. However if it's using the Asian 7750s (there are more than one, I think the main difference is that one factory produces 28,800 rate movements and the other 21,600) then it should be much cheaper. The Asian ones tend to have blue screws, but apart from that it isn't easy to tell unless you take the back off.
I'm not an expert on the 7750 so I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.
28,800 rate - seems genuine, and I believe it is. I had some emails earlier in the year from Chris as I was interested in this watch when it came out - although the rumours were it would be priced lower (but all the CW stuff has increased since Jan anyway).
http://www.christopherward.co.uk/pd2_MENS_C40-SPEE...
http://www.christopherward.co.uk/pd2_MENS_C40-SPEE...
Well that 'anchor-shaped' fine adjuster on the balance is the bit that supposedly doesn't exist on the Asian 7750 (as per the PDF that Hublot sent out to their ADs regarding replicas) so I don't doubt that it's a proper ETA 7750.
With the detail work on the pushers etc. (which I think looks rather cool), I'd have thought that £500 is around the right price point. Swatch are restricting supply of real 7750s and the price is going up. So I expect CW are having to pay more for their movements than they did in the past... which will have to be passed onto the customer.
Also if these are movements bought since Sept 2008, the FX rate took a bit of a kicking since then and movements paid for in € or CHF would have become more expensive (assuming CW makes the watches over here)...
Sounds about right to me - and a fine looking watch. Go for it
With the detail work on the pushers etc. (which I think looks rather cool), I'd have thought that £500 is around the right price point. Swatch are restricting supply of real 7750s and the price is going up. So I expect CW are having to pay more for their movements than they did in the past... which will have to be passed onto the customer.
Also if these are movements bought since Sept 2008, the FX rate took a bit of a kicking since then and movements paid for in € or CHF would have become more expensive (assuming CW makes the watches over here)...
Sounds about right to me - and a fine looking watch. Go for it
That said, I've found some Hublot Big Bang reps that *do* have the anchor fine adjuster, plus the BB-style rotor bearing shape, plus the blue screws... which look *identical* to the movement in that CW watch... and the blue screws are the tell for the Hublot because no Big Bang had blue screws.
So jury's out on the movement again... £500 seems a very good price for such a well-finished watch with a genuine 7750 in there, certainly given the Swatch supply restrictions and prices of the movements...
So jury's out on the movement again... £500 seems a very good price for such a well-finished watch with a genuine 7750 in there, certainly given the Swatch supply restrictions and prices of the movements...
cyberface said:
So jury's out on the movement again... £500 seems a very good price for such a well-finished watch with a genuine 7750 in there, certainly given the Swatch supply restrictions and prices of the movements...
The jury is not out on the movement at all! This is a genuine ETA 7750 movement as it clearly states this on the Christopher Ward website. Christopher Ward might be a small watch firm but it is a reputable one and the Speedhawk is a landmark watch for them. I just wish I had 500 quid in my back pocket as then I could place my order for this handsome watch!Mr Beastmaster said:
cyberface said:
So jury's out on the movement again... £500 seems a very good price for such a well-finished watch with a genuine 7750 in there, certainly given the Swatch supply restrictions and prices of the movements...
The jury is not out on the movement at all! This is a genuine ETA 7750 movement as it clearly states this on the Christopher Ward website. Christopher Ward might be a small watch firm but it is a reputable one and the Speedhawk is a landmark watch for them. I just wish I had 500 quid in my back pocket as then I could place my order for this handsome watch!Gassing Station | Watches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff