tourbillon should I
Discussion
Inspired by your question, I decided to google.
http://www.europastar.com/europastar/watch_tech/to...
I am still none the wiser as to whether I should or not. Ok, it stays more accurate but do I want to pay for that? *shrugs shoulders*
http://www.europastar.com/europastar/watch_tech/to...
I am still none the wiser as to whether I should or not. Ok, it stays more accurate but do I want to pay for that? *shrugs shoulders*
ShadownINja said:
Inspired by your question, I decided to google.
http://www.europastar.com/europastar/watch_tech/to...
I am still none the wiser as to whether I should or not. Ok, it stays more accurate but do I want to pay for that? *shrugs shoulders*
These days a tourbillon isnt really about accuracy. If you want that then just buy any chronometer certified watch. It's about the engineering brilliance!http://www.europastar.com/europastar/watch_tech/to...
I am still none the wiser as to whether I should or not. Ok, it stays more accurate but do I want to pay for that? *shrugs shoulders*
The accuracy was required when a pocket watch stayed in the same position for hours at a time. Most wristwatches, when worn, are at all kinds of angles throughout the day - well mine is at least.
I'd love a tourbillon, but think I'd be cheating myself going for a cheap chinese version which would certainly be more show than substance. Sadly the cheapest swiss is over £20k (or was last time I looked).
CommanderJameson said:
ShadownINja said:
Can you tell me why it's considered to be engineering brilliance?
I think it's a simple case of "very b
d hard to make". Lots of truly tiny components and the very devil of an assembly job.ShadownINja said:
So... erm... it's a bit like the Xzibit/Pimp My Ride of the watch world... we heard you like spinny things so we took your spinny thing and put it in a spinny thing?
It's more like Porsche putting carbon fibre spoilers, splitters and magnesium wheels on a road 911 - pointless, but you can kind of see the link to racing. The pimp-my-watch Xzibit treatment is every watch which has more money in precious stones than movement. They are truly hypnotic to watch though, and if you like mechanical movements for their own sake then the tourbillon has got to be the coolest thing around.
The Chinese manufacturers are the only ones making *true* tourbillons at a price affordable by most of us. These end up in all sorts of watches as expected, from nice indie watchsmiths to fakes / replicas. I could write an essay here but this link is more helpful. The problem for me is that most tourbillons end up in hideously gaudy, OTT, chintzy cases that I wouldn't be seen dead wearing. For me, a nice simple watch with a display back would do.
I'd like to do some more research into this, because there's no way I'd want a tourbillon from Liaoning - I've mentioned them before (they make the so-called 'Asian 7750' clone), and they seem to primarily serve the fake market with very cheap, low quality movements. I'd preferably want a genuine Sea-Gull ST-80, in a decent case.
I was prevaricating over the British Horological Institute 150th anniversary watch - it's a fairly restrained design with a Chinese tourbillon inside. The price is pretty low but it's not *quite* restrained enough for me - that huge crest sort-of makes it look a bit too much to my eyes. Also the case isn't that well finished, the front and rear glass is mineral rather than sapphire, the list goes on. On closer examination, it appears that the tourbillon in the BHI watch is the Liaoning 5010 movement, so I'm not interested.
A plain unbranded watch in this style, with a guilloche dial and a big hole for the tourbillon (as per the BHI watch) - well I'd buy one for that sort of price in an instant. Just for the movement. Hell, Sea-Gull even decorate the damn things.
If Sea-Gull themselves could make a plain-looking watch that wasn't too chintzy then I'd have one of those. Sadly their target market appears to prefer the bling. This is their own double-tourbillon:
The actual movement is, in my eyes, pretty elegant - at least compared to the Liaoning version. The top balance jewel and fine adjuster is worked into a bird-like assembly with fine 'wings', blued screws at the tip of each 'wing' and a diamond (or other white stone) as the 'head' - which is the pointer denoting elapsed seconds. It's pretty obvious why Sea-Gull designed it to look like a bird but it looks a damn sight more elegant than the Liaoning part, which is clumsy and heavy-looking in comparison.
And for those turning their noses up at Sea-Gull and the entire Chinese watchmaking concept - take a closer look at that movement. As mentioned, flying tourbillons are super-hard-bd tricky to assemble. But this one also has a screwed balance, and it doesn't look like that's just for show - it will enable even finer regulation by an expert. Try finding a screwed balance on any Swiss movement under £1000 - certainly none of the ETAs I've seen have them, and even the movement in my Breguet doesn't have a screwed balance. Perhaps tolerances these days mean that it's not necessary - but take a look at observatory competition chronograph movements, and they all have bimetallic split screwed balances.
I'm just waiting for the right watch to turn up with that movement in it. Sea-Gull have been making them for a couple of years now - they caused one hell of a fuss at Basel when they released it a few years back - they must be pretty well screwed together now. Even the cheap Liaoning tourbillon appears to have a 24 month warranty (according to the BHI). Remember these are 'proper' Sea-Gull movements, not replica watches, with no QC - if they're being assembled by 'genuine' indie watchmakers then they're likely to be properly inspected and lubricated, and should work well for a long time.
So if anyone spies a subtly-designed ST-80 tourbillon out there, post it up here - I'd be very interested.
The Chinese manufacturers are the only ones making *true* tourbillons at a price affordable by most of us. These end up in all sorts of watches as expected, from nice indie watchsmiths to fakes / replicas. I could write an essay here but this link is more helpful. The problem for me is that most tourbillons end up in hideously gaudy, OTT, chintzy cases that I wouldn't be seen dead wearing. For me, a nice simple watch with a display back would do.
I'd like to do some more research into this, because there's no way I'd want a tourbillon from Liaoning - I've mentioned them before (they make the so-called 'Asian 7750' clone), and they seem to primarily serve the fake market with very cheap, low quality movements. I'd preferably want a genuine Sea-Gull ST-80, in a decent case.
I was prevaricating over the British Horological Institute 150th anniversary watch - it's a fairly restrained design with a Chinese tourbillon inside. The price is pretty low but it's not *quite* restrained enough for me - that huge crest sort-of makes it look a bit too much to my eyes. Also the case isn't that well finished, the front and rear glass is mineral rather than sapphire, the list goes on. On closer examination, it appears that the tourbillon in the BHI watch is the Liaoning 5010 movement, so I'm not interested.
A plain unbranded watch in this style, with a guilloche dial and a big hole for the tourbillon (as per the BHI watch) - well I'd buy one for that sort of price in an instant. Just for the movement. Hell, Sea-Gull even decorate the damn things.
If Sea-Gull themselves could make a plain-looking watch that wasn't too chintzy then I'd have one of those. Sadly their target market appears to prefer the bling. This is their own double-tourbillon:
The actual movement is, in my eyes, pretty elegant - at least compared to the Liaoning version. The top balance jewel and fine adjuster is worked into a bird-like assembly with fine 'wings', blued screws at the tip of each 'wing' and a diamond (or other white stone) as the 'head' - which is the pointer denoting elapsed seconds. It's pretty obvious why Sea-Gull designed it to look like a bird but it looks a damn sight more elegant than the Liaoning part, which is clumsy and heavy-looking in comparison.
And for those turning their noses up at Sea-Gull and the entire Chinese watchmaking concept - take a closer look at that movement. As mentioned, flying tourbillons are super-hard-b
d tricky to assemble. But this one also has a screwed balance, and it doesn't look like that's just for show - it will enable even finer regulation by an expert. Try finding a screwed balance on any Swiss movement under £1000 - certainly none of the ETAs I've seen have them, and even the movement in my Breguet doesn't have a screwed balance. Perhaps tolerances these days mean that it's not necessary - but take a look at observatory competition chronograph movements, and they all have bimetallic split screwed balances.I'm just waiting for the right watch to turn up with that movement in it. Sea-Gull have been making them for a couple of years now - they caused one hell of a fuss at Basel when they released it a few years back - they must be pretty well screwed together now. Even the cheap Liaoning tourbillon appears to have a 24 month warranty (according to the BHI). Remember these are 'proper' Sea-Gull movements, not replica watches, with no QC - if they're being assembled by 'genuine' indie watchmakers then they're likely to be properly inspected and lubricated, and should work well for a long time.
So if anyone spies a subtly-designed ST-80 tourbillon out there, post it up here - I'd be very interested.
OK I've done a bit of searching, and it appears a 'real' Sea-Gull is available.
My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch
I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...
ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch
I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 15th August 18:16
cyberface said:
OK I've done a bit of searching, and it appears a 'real' Sea-Gull is available.
My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...
ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Not that they have My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch
I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 15th August 18:16
Oh no.
whoami said:
cyberface said:
OK I've done a bit of searching, and it appears a 'real' Sea-Gull is available.
My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...
ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Not that they have My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch
I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 15th August 18:16
Oh no.
cyberface said:
whoami said:
cyberface said:
OK I've done a bit of searching, and it appears a 'real' Sea-Gull is available.
My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...
ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Not that they have My favourite from their website is this one:
I'd normally choose the plainest of them all but a power reserve would, obviously, be of use on a manual-wind tourbillon movement.
But the European importers are charging £3,260 for this watch, and I *highly doubt* that Sea-Gull themselves are charging this much. Someone is seriously taking the piss. Bugger, I'd really like this watch
I'll admit that the styling is a little bit 'inspired' by Breguet but hell, I'm a Breguet fan but I'm never likely to be able to afford a genuine Breguet tourbillon...ETA - checked the American website and they want $4199 for the watch. Looks like Sea-Gull are moving upmarket. Question is - would you pay thousands for a Chinese watch? Sea-Gull are offering lifetime warranties on their movements, so perhaps QC is now sorted... I'm sorely tempted as it's a beautiful piece...
And thinking about it, it does change the dynamics of the Chinese incursion into Swiss high-end watchmaking. If these lovely complications are being sold at many-thousands prices, then the Swiss don't have a hell of a lot to fear. All that happens is that the target market is slightly increased - there are only so many people willing to spend many thousands on a watch, and £3k+ for a watch in steel with no 'bling' is only going to appeal to watch enthusiasts and those who appreciate the movement (the status symbol types will choose precious metals / big brand names)...
Edited by cyberface on Saturday 15th August 18:16
Oh no.
Keep your tights on FFS
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