Should I expect a discount?
Discussion
Popped into my local dealer a couple of weekends ago, ready to make an impulse purchase of a bike they had in their window. It was a Giant Bowery 84
It was priced at £675, and as I would prefer it on straight bars I asked if this was possible. Yes was the reply, and he showed me the bars he would fit saying the brake levers would swap over simply enough. I asked if he would swap the bars for me and mentioned that he could keep the originals as I didn't want them.
He would swap them, but the new bars would cost me £18 + fitting, and I would have to take the originals with me. I asked if he could swap the bars for free and repeated that I was interested in buying it there and then. He still wouldn't swap them FOC, and so I went away to 'think about it'
Is it unreasonable to ask for £18 worth of bars to be fitted for free on a £675 bike? I was a little put out to be honest. I really would have bought it if he had made the swap for me and would have rode home on it.
Two weeks later and it's still there, unsold. If I wasn't so stubborn I'd go back in....or am I being unreasonable?
It was priced at £675, and as I would prefer it on straight bars I asked if this was possible. Yes was the reply, and he showed me the bars he would fit saying the brake levers would swap over simply enough. I asked if he would swap the bars for me and mentioned that he could keep the originals as I didn't want them.
He would swap them, but the new bars would cost me £18 + fitting, and I would have to take the originals with me. I asked if he could swap the bars for free and repeated that I was interested in buying it there and then. He still wouldn't swap them FOC, and so I went away to 'think about it'
Is it unreasonable to ask for £18 worth of bars to be fitted for free on a £675 bike? I was a little put out to be honest. I really would have bought it if he had made the swap for me and would have rode home on it.
Two weeks later and it's still there, unsold. If I wasn't so stubborn I'd go back in....or am I being unreasonable?
Pardon me for being dim here chief, but that's a pic of a fixie without brakes...?
ETA just read the spec and it comes with eyelets to allow fitment of calipers.
As for your part swap; well it depends on the shop, but if it'd been me (and I've done this in many years gone by), yes I'd have swapped it...
We'd have always done it FOC, as you shoud remember we usually get to sell the swapped out part, and the part we fit will be purchased at trade so hardly breaking the bank in order for a sale.
You tried asking for the manager and having a word in his earole?
ETA just read the spec and it comes with eyelets to allow fitment of calipers.
As for your part swap; well it depends on the shop, but if it'd been me (and I've done this in many years gone by), yes I'd have swapped it...
We'd have always done it FOC, as you shoud remember we usually get to sell the swapped out part, and the part we fit will be purchased at trade so hardly breaking the bank in order for a sale.
You tried asking for the manager and having a word in his earole?
Edited by neil_bolton on Monday 17th August 13:53
ps why on earth are you buying a fixie?
ETA: A Charge Plug or Trek District belt drive is much cooler if you're buying on looks, but if you want something quick, get a commuterised MTB with slicks etc - much MUCH more comfortable and easy to ride...
ETA: A Charge Plug or Trek District belt drive is much cooler if you're buying on looks, but if you want something quick, get a commuterised MTB with slicks etc - much MUCH more comfortable and easy to ride...
Edited by neil_bolton on Monday 17th August 13:54
neil_bolton said:
ps why on earth are you buying a fixie?
Honest answer is that I am a massive impulse purchaser and I liked the way it looked, it was that simple. I just wanted it and I'm sure I can make use of it around town instead of using the MB all of the time. Interesting to note that you would have done the deal, that's encouraging and maybe I should pop back.
Garlick said:
neil_bolton said:
ps why on earth are you buying a fixie?
Honest answer is that I am a massive impulse purchaser and I liked the way it looked, it was that simple. I just wanted it and I'm sure I can make use of it around town instead of using the MB all of the time. Interesting to note that you would have done the deal, that's encouraging and maybe I should pop back.
Still think a Trek is the coolest. thing. on. earth. for zapping around town...
Beyond Rational said:
Could it be a Giant/Bike shop policy whereby they want the purchaser to retain the complete new bike for warranty/whatever reason?
Yes perhaps. I must be turning into my Dad, getting all huffy because he won't give me a discount 
OK, so it's not the most expensive bike in the world, but a little gesture to win my business would have been appreciated and would have resulted in me owning a bike I didn't go out to buy that day.
Garlick said:
Beyond Rational said:
Could it be a Giant/Bike shop policy whereby they want the purchaser to retain the complete new bike for warranty/whatever reason?
Yes perhaps. I must be turning into my Dad, getting all huffy because he won't give me a discount OK, so it's not the most expensive bike in the world, but a little gesture to win my business would have been appreciated and would have resulted in me owning a bike I didn't go out to buy that day.
If I'd brought my Lapierre and then been told I'd lost my warranty by changing my DH bars to ones a little more to my liking, I'd have gone postal, and shoved said bars up the managers arse...
P-Jay said:
I know nothing of fixies (and don't want to) but MTB usually have 10-20% built into the cost so customers can take advantage of the "free" finance, you should at least get that for offering cash, all things being equal.
That is absolute b
ks mate.I've explained all this before (and I'll copy and paste it again if need be) but offering a shop cash does NOT guarantee a discount.
fk it, here it is:
I said the other day:
"Credit is there to make it an incentive to buy, cash being waved around means you want the product, so if you offer cash up front they will say no discount.
Ask for discount or goodies thrown in - the profit margin is higher on accessories and will get you more bang for your buck.
Cash for 2009 models on the other half..."
and:
"The reason why you get deals on certain brands is this:
When you are a dealer, you are forced, in order to carry a brand, to sign up to prearranged amount of units per year. This amount of units agreed by you and your rep is what decrees your discount per unit.
Therefore, the larger shops, such as Evans for example, have a larger buying power and therefore are able to offer discount at an earlier period in the year than a smaller shop.
What you also have to take into account is that as a dealer you choose your range at the beginning of the year before many of the magazine reviews are out. Obviously this can be awkward, especially if a review of a model is unfavourable.
This is also why you get many weird sized bikes being offered at a discount because a shop will buy in a few models of odd sizes because it is cheaper to buy at the beginning of the year (i.e commit up front, and then get better invoice conditions) than it is to buy in ad hoc for customers.
This mean that if you wander in and you're a shorty or a lanky git, and you want the top of the range model they haven't got in stock in your size, NO amount of money waving will get you money off a bike they have to order IN for you. If you are lucky and they have it in stock, they MIGHT give you a discount as cash flow is king in business - they always want to move stock that is sat there doing nothing.
Therefore, this is why you see a LOT of Specialised, Giant, Gary Fisher and Trek offered at a discount earlier on in the year. You'll find it VERY difficult to find the smaller brands at a discount because of this - they don't force dealers to buy so much up front, but obviously this means a shop needs to buy in throughout the year at the punative invoicing condition - cutting their profit.
Anything 'last year' wise when they have 'this year' stock in is fair game - they NEED to move the stock on - whereas they know that if they don't sell the latest and greatest popular 2010 model to you who is waving cash around for a discount, they'll easily sell it to the next person who will happily pay by debit card WITHOUT a discount.
Many people are not aware of how the larger brands essentially tie a dealers arms behind their back when it comes to carrying a range; and this affects the sales at the end of the year.
Hope that clarifies things for you."
Cash for discount, my arse. This isn't the 80's anymore you know.
k it, here it is:I said the other day:
"Credit is there to make it an incentive to buy, cash being waved around means you want the product, so if you offer cash up front they will say no discount.
Ask for discount or goodies thrown in - the profit margin is higher on accessories and will get you more bang for your buck.
Cash for 2009 models on the other half..."
and:
"The reason why you get deals on certain brands is this:
When you are a dealer, you are forced, in order to carry a brand, to sign up to prearranged amount of units per year. This amount of units agreed by you and your rep is what decrees your discount per unit.
Therefore, the larger shops, such as Evans for example, have a larger buying power and therefore are able to offer discount at an earlier period in the year than a smaller shop.
What you also have to take into account is that as a dealer you choose your range at the beginning of the year before many of the magazine reviews are out. Obviously this can be awkward, especially if a review of a model is unfavourable.
This is also why you get many weird sized bikes being offered at a discount because a shop will buy in a few models of odd sizes because it is cheaper to buy at the beginning of the year (i.e commit up front, and then get better invoice conditions) than it is to buy in ad hoc for customers.
This mean that if you wander in and you're a shorty or a lanky git, and you want the top of the range model they haven't got in stock in your size, NO amount of money waving will get you money off a bike they have to order IN for you. If you are lucky and they have it in stock, they MIGHT give you a discount as cash flow is king in business - they always want to move stock that is sat there doing nothing.
Therefore, this is why you see a LOT of Specialised, Giant, Gary Fisher and Trek offered at a discount earlier on in the year. You'll find it VERY difficult to find the smaller brands at a discount because of this - they don't force dealers to buy so much up front, but obviously this means a shop needs to buy in throughout the year at the punative invoicing condition - cutting their profit.
Anything 'last year' wise when they have 'this year' stock in is fair game - they NEED to move the stock on - whereas they know that if they don't sell the latest and greatest popular 2010 model to you who is waving cash around for a discount, they'll easily sell it to the next person who will happily pay by debit card WITHOUT a discount.
Many people are not aware of how the larger brands essentially tie a dealers arms behind their back when it comes to carrying a range; and this affects the sales at the end of the year.
Hope that clarifies things for you."
Cash for discount, my arse. This isn't the 80's anymore you know.
If paying up front i'd expect to be able to get 10% off the list price at least, an £18 set of bars is neither here nor there.
I'd give the bars a go if i were you. I've got Langster Monaco and am using Profile Aerobars, and i find the options they give over flat bars is a real bonus.
I'd give the bars a go if i were you. I've got Langster Monaco and am using Profile Aerobars, and i find the options they give over flat bars is a real bonus.
936ADL said:
If paying up front i'd expect to be able to get 10% off the list price at least, an £18 set of bars is neither here nor there.
I'd give the bars a go if i were you. I've got Langster Monaco and am using Profile Aerobars, and i find the options they give over flat bars is a real bonus.
I agree, and the bars question was an opener. When I realised he wouldn't play ball for £18 I knew he wouldn't give me any other discount, and so I left the shop. I'd give the bars a go if i were you. I've got Langster Monaco and am using Profile Aerobars, and i find the options they give over flat bars is a real bonus.
The shop closes at 19.00 every night, so I might give it one more go. I take on board your comment about the bars too, thanks
I'd be hacked off with a bike shop doing that. Even if he wasn't willing to do the parts for free, charging you labour on something as straightforward as a bar change at the same time as you buy the bike is just taking the piss. It would also make me wonder just how much time and thoroughness they'd put into setting the thing up for you in the first place.
Bought the gf a not very fancy Claud Butler thing (around £350), couple of helmets and a few other things, asked the "what can you do it for?" question and got 10% off the lot. They also changed the seat post to a suspension jobby and fitted more padded saddle gratis. Whilst we sorted the money side and generally blahhed with the guy he got his assistant to go over the bike to check it out and also fit a bottle carrier. So all in all quite happy, pleasant time spent and didn't feel to ripped off. Clearly a different experience to yours Garlick!
Having said that I quite like the looks of those bars. Not sure about the saddle though, is that an Brooks Acme Ass Killer?
Cheers,
Rob
Having said that I quite like the looks of those bars. Not sure about the saddle though, is that an Brooks Acme Ass Killer?
Cheers,
Rob
Truth is dealers can be so different.
Went to local LBS to buy the giant I'd researched and they had one in but the wrong size, and they couldn't be arsed to get another in for the full price - I hadn't even got to the haggling part.
So then rang up another LBS and they spent 1/4 hour chatting about bits and bobs, being helpful, said they'd get one in & almost (£5 out) matched the price on wiggle which was £250 less than the original LBS, and it included the first service which wiggle wouldn't have done obviously.
Some are chalk & cheese. You can read that as some want to stay in business, and some don't.
I'd personally stick to your principles Garlic (& fwiw I prefer that to the trek)
Went to local LBS to buy the giant I'd researched and they had one in but the wrong size, and they couldn't be arsed to get another in for the full price - I hadn't even got to the haggling part.
So then rang up another LBS and they spent 1/4 hour chatting about bits and bobs, being helpful, said they'd get one in & almost (£5 out) matched the price on wiggle which was £250 less than the original LBS, and it included the first service which wiggle wouldn't have done obviously.
Some are chalk & cheese. You can read that as some want to stay in business, and some don't.
I'd personally stick to your principles Garlic (& fwiw I prefer that to the trek)
neil_bolton said:
fk it, here it is:
I said the other day:
"Credit is there to make it an incentive to buy, cash being waved around means you want the product, so if you offer cash up front they will say no discount.
Ask for discount or goodies thrown in - the profit margin is higher on accessories and will get you more bang for your buck.
Cash for 2009 models on the other half..."
and:
"The reason why you get deals on certain brands is this:
When you are a dealer, you are forced, in order to carry a brand, to sign up to prearranged amount of units per year. This amount of units agreed by you and your rep is what decrees your discount per unit.
Therefore, the larger shops, such as Evans for example, have a larger buying power and therefore are able to offer discount at an earlier period in the year than a smaller shop.
What you also have to take into account is that as a dealer you choose your range at the beginning of the year before many of the magazine reviews are out. Obviously this can be awkward, especially if a review of a model is unfavourable.
This is also why you get many weird sized bikes being offered at a discount because a shop will buy in a few models of odd sizes because it is cheaper to buy at the beginning of the year (i.e commit up front, and then get better invoice conditions) than it is to buy in ad hoc for customers.
This mean that if you wander in and you're a shorty or a lanky git, and you want the top of the range model they haven't got in stock in your size, NO amount of money waving will get you money off a bike they have to order IN for you. If you are lucky and they have it in stock, they MIGHT give you a discount as cash flow is king in business - they always want to move stock that is sat there doing nothing.
Therefore, this is why you see a LOT of Specialised, Giant, Gary Fisher and Trek offered at a discount earlier on in the year. You'll find it VERY difficult to find the smaller brands at a discount because of this - they don't force dealers to buy so much up front, but obviously this means a shop needs to buy in throughout the year at the punative invoicing condition - cutting their profit.
Anything 'last year' wise when they have 'this year' stock in is fair game - they NEED to move the stock on - whereas they know that if they don't sell the latest and greatest popular 2010 model to you who is waving cash around for a discount, they'll easily sell it to the next person who will happily pay by debit card WITHOUT a discount.
Many people are not aware of how the larger brands essentially tie a dealers arms behind their back when it comes to carrying a range; and this affects the sales at the end of the year.
Hope that clarifies things for you."
Cash for discount, my arse. This isn't the 80's anymore you know.
I agree, but I think you're missing the point that credit costs the dealer money.k it, here it is:I said the other day:
"Credit is there to make it an incentive to buy, cash being waved around means you want the product, so if you offer cash up front they will say no discount.
Ask for discount or goodies thrown in - the profit margin is higher on accessories and will get you more bang for your buck.
Cash for 2009 models on the other half..."
and:
"The reason why you get deals on certain brands is this:
When you are a dealer, you are forced, in order to carry a brand, to sign up to prearranged amount of units per year. This amount of units agreed by you and your rep is what decrees your discount per unit.
Therefore, the larger shops, such as Evans for example, have a larger buying power and therefore are able to offer discount at an earlier period in the year than a smaller shop.
What you also have to take into account is that as a dealer you choose your range at the beginning of the year before many of the magazine reviews are out. Obviously this can be awkward, especially if a review of a model is unfavourable.
This is also why you get many weird sized bikes being offered at a discount because a shop will buy in a few models of odd sizes because it is cheaper to buy at the beginning of the year (i.e commit up front, and then get better invoice conditions) than it is to buy in ad hoc for customers.
This mean that if you wander in and you're a shorty or a lanky git, and you want the top of the range model they haven't got in stock in your size, NO amount of money waving will get you money off a bike they have to order IN for you. If you are lucky and they have it in stock, they MIGHT give you a discount as cash flow is king in business - they always want to move stock that is sat there doing nothing.
Therefore, this is why you see a LOT of Specialised, Giant, Gary Fisher and Trek offered at a discount earlier on in the year. You'll find it VERY difficult to find the smaller brands at a discount because of this - they don't force dealers to buy so much up front, but obviously this means a shop needs to buy in throughout the year at the punative invoicing condition - cutting their profit.
Anything 'last year' wise when they have 'this year' stock in is fair game - they NEED to move the stock on - whereas they know that if they don't sell the latest and greatest popular 2010 model to you who is waving cash around for a discount, they'll easily sell it to the next person who will happily pay by debit card WITHOUT a discount.
Many people are not aware of how the larger brands essentially tie a dealers arms behind their back when it comes to carrying a range; and this affects the sales at the end of the year.
Hope that clarifies things for you."
Cash for discount, my arse. This isn't the 80's anymore you know.
As much as I hate the customer service at Evans, and appreciating it is a large chain, I turned a good deal on getting my Cannondale F4. They replaced the scratched post with a Thomson one (~£70 RRP) and put some cheapo SPD's on (~£25, which seem identical to my XT ones from years ago...)
This was on a bike that I think cost me £650. I say "I think" as I was in Canary Wharf and not entirely sober when I bought it. Not a bad deal to cut after one pint too many!
To not take a sale for an £18 handlebar is, in my humblest, stupid. Repeat sales and service from a bike shop that you get "a good feel from" will be worth that £18 many many times over. I bought 4 bikes from the same shop in Brighton just because of the warm feel and good service they gave. These people are either on a tight margin or couldn't give a rats arse.
It is a cool fixie though...
This was on a bike that I think cost me £650. I say "I think" as I was in Canary Wharf and not entirely sober when I bought it. Not a bad deal to cut after one pint too many!
To not take a sale for an £18 handlebar is, in my humblest, stupid. Repeat sales and service from a bike shop that you get "a good feel from" will be worth that £18 many many times over. I bought 4 bikes from the same shop in Brighton just because of the warm feel and good service they gave. These people are either on a tight margin or couldn't give a rats arse.
It is a cool fixie though...
navier_stokes said:
I agree, but I think you're missing the point that credit costs the dealer money.
Someone made a very good point on here the other day that I wasn't aware of, but once you are it makes a lot of sense.If a business (they were talking about DFS, but it applies equally to any other) advertises 0% APR finance deals, then they are not legally permitted to discount for cash, as this implies that you are not getting 0% APR.
Apparently it's a favoured trick of trading standards officers to go and ask for a discount for cash in such circumstances, and then fine people who say yes.
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