Discussion
Whats the difference in sound and cost between a Wortec and a difilippo cat back exhaust? for an 05 CV8 VZ, is one better than the other or are they about the same?
How come Monkfish don't have a rolling road to test the claimed power outputs of the various upgrades they offer.......?
How come Monkfish don't have a rolling road to test the claimed power outputs of the various upgrades they offer.......?
Hi Mate,
Re Monkfish, not financally worth it for them I suspect and as you can see from other posts they cause so much offence and grief I would recommend they did not bother. To be honest Roger and Paul @ Wortec can probably show some dyno graphs for demo cars (some on the Wortec site), but Paul chooses to tune the cars for real life driving, i.e. on the road (hope I don't offend anyone as non intended).
I have a full Wortec headers and old style cat back, I fell in love with the sound as soon as I heard one with just the cat back so knew the headers would help.
Cheers
Steven
Re Monkfish, not financally worth it for them I suspect and as you can see from other posts they cause so much offence and grief I would recommend they did not bother. To be honest Roger and Paul @ Wortec can probably show some dyno graphs for demo cars (some on the Wortec site), but Paul chooses to tune the cars for real life driving, i.e. on the road (hope I don't offend anyone as non intended).
I have a full Wortec headers and old style cat back, I fell in love with the sound as soon as I heard one with just the cat back so knew the headers would help.
Cheers
Steven
l4jor said:
Whats the difference in sound and cost between a Wortec and a difilippo cat back exhaust? for an 05 CV8 VZ, is one better than the other or are they about the same?
How come Monkfish don't have a rolling road to test the claimed power outputs of the various upgrades they offer.......?
How come Monkfish don't have a rolling road to test the claimed power outputs of the various upgrades they offer.......?
Go custom cheaper and can be made to noise levels you want
Booking mine in for the manifolds/cats (yes it will have some legal ones in!) tomorrow but cant get them done till the end of October unfortunately, going to be a long wait!
Difilippo wont be louder if thats what you are asking. They are designed for performance not noise.
I think the Oz police are harsher on noise which will have something to do with it.
As for Dyno's a before and after is a good idea. Getting only a "number" from an after mod dyno is as mentioned, pointless.
Even more so if its a flywheel number. You might as well just shake a dice for all the good it will do you, as its totally unverifiable.
Its only relevant if you take one before and compare to after on the same dyno, same settings, same operator etc. REAR WHEEL ONLY!
Then and only then is it worth buying a bhp number. Otherwise you arnt really buying anything quantifiable are you?
It would be interesting to find out how many vendors will do that and give you a guaranteed power increase. The only one I know with a Dyno inhouse who could/can do that is Rapid. Im pretty sure Mark will let you watch both runs if you want to.
Wortec also hit the dyno often, so Im sure they would do something similar, actually I think Jez might even have done this with them.
Anyway, who buys mods for power anyway. Its all about noise and shinny bits isnt it
I think the Oz police are harsher on noise which will have something to do with it.
As for Dyno's a before and after is a good idea. Getting only a "number" from an after mod dyno is as mentioned, pointless.
Even more so if its a flywheel number. You might as well just shake a dice for all the good it will do you, as its totally unverifiable.
Its only relevant if you take one before and compare to after on the same dyno, same settings, same operator etc. REAR WHEEL ONLY!
Then and only then is it worth buying a bhp number. Otherwise you arnt really buying anything quantifiable are you?
It would be interesting to find out how many vendors will do that and give you a guaranteed power increase. The only one I know with a Dyno inhouse who could/can do that is Rapid. Im pretty sure Mark will let you watch both runs if you want to.
Wortec also hit the dyno often, so Im sure they would do something similar, actually I think Jez might even have done this with them.
Anyway, who buys mods for power anyway. Its all about noise and shinny bits isnt it
Granada 203028, I thought about removing the central silencers a while back ,but because they are so small I believed any increase in sound would'nt amount to anything worth the effort. I was going to do the job properly this year with a cat back, but the jobs that need doing on my new house ....well where do I start?
I have found noise is determined by the amount of exhaust gas being flowed. My wortec was fine on a standard engine but stupidly loud/harsh after all my mods. I looked like a chav driving up the street it was that bad.
I now have a difilippo and it's nice and quiet on idle. On full throttle it sounds to me like a Mercedes McLaren SLR. Very happy.
Nothing wrong with either system but they sound different depending on the car.
Between 500-650rwhp my fwhp figures have been consistently 130-150 higher so it's not total bollox when measured on the same dyno.
I now have a difilippo and it's nice and quiet on idle. On full throttle it sounds to me like a Mercedes McLaren SLR. Very happy.
Nothing wrong with either system but they sound different depending on the car.
Between 500-650rwhp my fwhp figures have been consistently 130-150 higher so it's not total bollox when measured on the same dyno.
Yes the boxes do look small but did make a surprising difference with the back boxes left as standard. Another contributor said it was the way to go and I have proved them correct.
Windows up on the motorway virtually no difference, but windows down a proper V8 woofle rising to a sensible bellow. Very good value for money.
Windows up on the motorway virtually no difference, but windows down a proper V8 woofle rising to a sensible bellow. Very good value for money.
ringram said:
Difilippo wont be louder if thats what you are asking. They are designed for performance not noise.
I think the Oz police are harsher on noise which will have something to do with it.
As for Dyno's a before and after is a good idea. Getting only a "number" from an after mod dyno is as mentioned, pointless.
Even more so if its a flywheel number. You might as well just shake a dice for all the good it will do you, as its totally unverifiable.
Its only relevant if you take one before and compare to after on the same dyno, same settings, same operator etc. REAR WHEEL ONLY!
Then and only then is it worth buying a bhp number. Otherwise you arnt really buying anything quantifiable are you?
It would be interesting to find out how many vendors will do that and give you a guaranteed power increase. The only one I know with a Dyno inhouse who could/can do that is Rapid. Im pretty sure Mark will let you watch both runs if you want to.
Wortec also hit the dyno often, so Im sure they would do something similar, actually I think Jez might even have done this with them.
Anyway, who buys mods for power anyway. Its all about noise and shinny bits isnt it
I think the Oz police are harsher on noise which will have something to do with it.
As for Dyno's a before and after is a good idea. Getting only a "number" from an after mod dyno is as mentioned, pointless.
Even more so if its a flywheel number. You might as well just shake a dice for all the good it will do you, as its totally unverifiable.
Its only relevant if you take one before and compare to after on the same dyno, same settings, same operator etc. REAR WHEEL ONLY!
Then and only then is it worth buying a bhp number. Otherwise you arnt really buying anything quantifiable are you?
It would be interesting to find out how many vendors will do that and give you a guaranteed power increase. The only one I know with a Dyno inhouse who could/can do that is Rapid. Im pretty sure Mark will let you watch both runs if you want to.
Wortec also hit the dyno often, so Im sure they would do something similar, actually I think Jez might even have done this with them.
Anyway, who buys mods for power anyway. Its all about noise and shinny bits isnt it
Conversely, what is the point of a number on a piece of paper, at a certain time, on a certain day?? It is a peak figure, the benefits of how good an upgrade/tune is are felt on the road, a good overall increase (area under the curve if determined to look at pretty pictures) can mean far better performance in the real world than a peak number on a piece of paper. Agree that it is nice to see before and after figure, but its just a number.
I have just spent the last few months back and forward to a custom exhaust place playing around with my exhaust as I was not sure what sound I could achieve, first I replaced the back boxes for much smaller ones as the standard 6L VXR ones are massive, gave a nice noise but within weeks wanted it deeper, then I had the 2 smaller silencers removed, again gave a nice noise but wanted more, in the end I removed all the silencers and am now just running the 2 back ones which I am told sounds very nice and deep! Which is a shame as I can't hear it when driving, apart from the Dartford tunnel !! my 2p's worth would be go the whole hog, have all the silencers removed and run the biggest straight through pipes you can get to the back boxes, should be able to get the whole lot done for circa £600 in stainless. My other only bit of advice would be to keep the silencers you have taken off, just in case for some very strange reason you don't like the growl you'll be getting from the back. You'll be surprised which changes makes a difference in the sound, even down to the shape of the tailpipes you get.
tattooboy said:
I have just spent the last few months back and forward to a custom exhaust place playing around with my exhaust as I was not sure what sound I could achieve, first I replaced the back boxes for much smaller ones as the standard 6L VXR ones are massive, gave a nice noise but within weeks wanted it deeper, then I had the 2 smaller silencers removed, again gave a nice noise but wanted more, in the end I removed all the silencers and am now just running the 2 back ones which I am told sounds very nice and deep! Which is a shame as I can't hear it when driving, apart from the Dartford tunnel !! my 2p's worth would be go the whole hog, have all the silencers removed and run the biggest straight through pipes you can get to the back boxes, should be able to get the whole lot done for circa £600 in stainless. My other only bit of advice would be to keep the silencers you have taken off, just in case for some very strange reason you don't like the growl you'll be getting from the back. You'll be surprised which changes makes a difference in the sound, even down to the shape of the tailpipes you get.
How would that sound compared to a Wortec cat back, headers and Cat pipes? If it would be louder would it really be advisable. Ours is really as loud as anyone would want i would have thought. I'm sure we still have a silencer in there somewhere
l4jor said:
Thanks all...I will go with Granada's advice and remove the small silencers. Next year a cat back is on the cards.....at last
Just for info, I went the other way and replaced the rear boxes with some custom straight-through pipes (which I bought from someone on here but can't remember who?) and that makes a nice noise, much better than standard with a bit of a grumble going on a low revs and a tenor howl flat out. Dead easy to fit, 10 mins a side tops, and a cheap option as well!
Will be at the 20th Meet so you can have a listen, I don't think it's that loud but the missus tells me otherwise and the neighbours little boy always runs to the door to wave me off when he hears the "Race car" I was after deep rather than loud which is what I think I ended up with.
Bonnie and Clyde said:
tattooboy said:
I have just spent the last few months back and forward to a custom exhaust place playing around with my exhaust as I was not sure what sound I could achieve, first I replaced the back boxes for much smaller ones as the standard 6L VXR ones are massive, gave a nice noise but within weeks wanted it deeper, then I had the 2 smaller silencers removed, again gave a nice noise but wanted more, in the end I removed all the silencers and am now just running the 2 back ones which I am told sounds very nice and deep! Which is a shame as I can't hear it when driving, apart from the Dartford tunnel !! my 2p's worth would be go the whole hog, have all the silencers removed and run the biggest straight through pipes you can get to the back boxes, should be able to get the whole lot done for circa £600 in stainless. My other only bit of advice would be to keep the silencers you have taken off, just in case for some very strange reason you don't like the growl you'll be getting from the back. You'll be surprised which changes makes a difference in the sound, even down to the shape of the tailpipes you get.
How would that sound compared to a Wortec cat back, headers and Cat pipes? If it would be louder would it really be advisable. Ours is really as loud as anyone would want i would have thought. I'm sure we still have a silencer in there somewhere Mel, we have switchable back boxes and thats it. loud but muffled or just plain old loud!
As tattooboy says though, every change affects the output, so straight through with standard back boxes will sound a lot different to wortec with headers.....
Have you noticed the headers and sports cats make the sound "clearer"? without being silly loud, it is crisp and you can hear the blap of each ignition. I would have thought keeping original back boxes and cats would result in a louder but more muffled sound.....better for deep woofly V8, but not for redline screaming wortec V8 noise!
caspy said:
Conversely, what is the point of a number on a piece of paper, at a certain time, on a certain day?? It is a peak figure, the benefits of how good an upgrade/tune is are felt on the road, a good overall increase (area under the curve if determined to look at pretty pictures) can mean far better performance in the real world than a peak number on a piece of paper. Agree that it is nice to see before and after figure, but its just a number.
Very true as you say area under the curve is important as we only ever measure one throttle position on the dyno and thats wide open. However nobody ever drives everywhere like that so all other load points are very important and are where the car is driven probably 99% of the time.Of course the ideal is you get both. Part throttle and full throttle gains. Otherwise people wouldnt come to the drag days if WOT wasnt important too!
Thats why I always suggest people should drive the different setups before making their mind up. No point buying a number
Buy an experience instead! Though in theory a vehicle with a better peak number has the "potential" for a superior overall driving experience if its tuned similarly properly at ALL load points. Cam selection variations acknowledged. I guess one could have a better low load tune than the other making the lower peak numbered one a better drive, but then in my book both of them would have bad/incomplete tunes.
wolfracer said:
Bonnie and Clyde said:
tattooboy said:
I have just spent the last few months back and forward to a custom exhaust place playing around with my exhaust as I was not sure what sound I could achieve, first I replaced the back boxes for much smaller ones as the standard 6L VXR ones are massive, gave a nice noise but within weeks wanted it deeper, then I had the 2 smaller silencers removed, again gave a nice noise but wanted more, in the end I removed all the silencers and am now just running the 2 back ones which I am told sounds very nice and deep! Which is a shame as I can't hear it when driving, apart from the Dartford tunnel !! my 2p's worth would be go the whole hog, have all the silencers removed and run the biggest straight through pipes you can get to the back boxes, should be able to get the whole lot done for circa £600 in stainless. My other only bit of advice would be to keep the silencers you have taken off, just in case for some very strange reason you don't like the growl you'll be getting from the back. You'll be surprised which changes makes a difference in the sound, even down to the shape of the tailpipes you get.
How would that sound compared to a Wortec cat back, headers and Cat pipes? If it would be louder would it really be advisable. Ours is really as loud as anyone would want i would have thought. I'm sure we still have a silencer in there somewhere Mel, we have switchable back boxes and thats it. loud but muffled or just plain old loud!
As tattooboy says though, every change affects the output, so straight through with standard back boxes will sound a lot different to wortec with headers.....
Have you noticed the headers and sports cats make the sound "clearer"? without being silly loud, it is crisp and you can hear the blap of each ignition. I would have thought keeping original back boxes and cats would result in a louder but more muffled sound.....better for deep woofly V8, but not for redline screaming wortec V8 noise!
I also don't know about the blap of each ignition either. I question sometimes if it running on all 8 cylinders. Would that be easy to notice. How would we know???? When i first start it, i feel as though its gonna cut out. I'll get Roger to check it when i'm there next. (When the diff bits arrive
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