Legacy B4 - Upgrade time!
Discussion
Ok... I've had the car a few months. It's now driving really well. I know the car is healthy, and completely standard.
All the brakes have been done - New front and rear calipers, rear disks, pads all round - the suspension has been checked and a dodgy shock replaced, and as of tomorrow I will have a spanking set of F1's on it and hopefully a new stereo (Jap spec Kenwood is pants!).
I realy want to have a bit of a play. I don't really know much about my car, other than it's a B4 STi with tiptronic. I'd love a bit more grunt and noise.
I'm not overly taken with the gearbox, and was wondering if it was a biggy to swap it for a manual, or is that going to be a PIG of a job?
Cheers
All the brakes have been done - New front and rear calipers, rear disks, pads all round - the suspension has been checked and a dodgy shock replaced, and as of tomorrow I will have a spanking set of F1's on it and hopefully a new stereo (Jap spec Kenwood is pants!).
I realy want to have a bit of a play. I don't really know much about my car, other than it's a B4 STi with tiptronic. I'd love a bit more grunt and noise.
I'm not overly taken with the gearbox, and was wondering if it was a biggy to swap it for a manual, or is that going to be a PIG of a job?
Cheers
I take it yours is the 2.0 GT Spec B TT with the STi package (interior plus brake and suspension mods, nice STi backbox but no ECU upgrades). This engine already makes c.280bhp. I'm sure with a remap only you could see 300+ and a decent hike in torque. If you want to go mad go for decat exhausts + green panel air filter and you should see 320-330bhp no probs.
The key with these is to get the AVCS working for you and the twin turbo's singing in harmony to release all that low down and mid range grunt, plus the usual timing and air/fuel calibrations of course.
This would transform the drive so that tiptronic won't be so much of an issue to you. In fact it will make for a much more relaxing motorway supercruiser and B road muncher.
The key with these is to get the AVCS working for you and the twin turbo's singing in harmony to release all that low down and mid range grunt, plus the usual timing and air/fuel calibrations of course.
This would transform the drive so that tiptronic won't be so much of an issue to you. In fact it will make for a much more relaxing motorway supercruiser and B road muncher.
ScoobieWRX said:
I take it yours is the 2.0 GT Spec B TT with the STi package (interior plus brake and suspension mods, nice STi backbox but no ECU upgrades). This engine already makes c.280bhp. I'm sure with a remap only you could see 300+ and a decent hike in torque. If you want to go mad go for decat exhausts + green panel air filter and you should see 320-330bhp no probs.
The key with these is to get the AVCS working for you and the twin turbo's singing in harmony to release all that low down and mid range grunt, plus the usual timing and air/fuel calibrations of course.
This would transform the drive so that tiptronic won't be so much of an issue to you. In fact it will make for a much more relaxing motorway supercruiser and B road muncher.
Thanks for your reply. I actually have no idea what I've got. I'm only going by the badges and what the V5 says.The key with these is to get the AVCS working for you and the twin turbo's singing in harmony to release all that low down and mid range grunt, plus the usual timing and air/fuel calibrations of course.
This would transform the drive so that tiptronic won't be so much of an issue to you. In fact it will make for a much more relaxing motorway supercruiser and B road muncher.
I spoke to Vixpy1 when I first got the beast, and he said that on a '99 V Plate it could be one of two models, one of which was fairly untunable. When I mailed him back he didn't reply... so I guess I may have the poo one.
Is there a way to tell by the engine number or anything?
ETA: Apologies for my ignorance, but I didn't go out specifically looking for one of these, I was initially looking for a BMW 7 series
It just appeared at the right price.Edited by KingRichard on Thursday 20th August 21:05
It won't be an STi, the only STi Legacy of that generation was the s401 which is 6-speed manual only.
The autos are detuned as standard compared to manuals (260 vs 280bhp)- engine number should probably start with EJ206, manual version is EJ208. You can free up a bit of extra power with a better flowing exhaust (turbos back + decat), intake side is pretty good as standard and aftermarket filters often cause premature AFM death. Otherwise a good boost controller, and/or zerosports sequential controller if the flat spot between turbos is significant - not a problem as standard for mine.
A 99 may not be remappable, they didn't bring in the newage (denso) ECU until the 01 facelift.
The autos are detuned as standard compared to manuals (260 vs 280bhp)- engine number should probably start with EJ206, manual version is EJ208. You can free up a bit of extra power with a better flowing exhaust (turbos back + decat), intake side is pretty good as standard and aftermarket filters often cause premature AFM death. Otherwise a good boost controller, and/or zerosports sequential controller if the flat spot between turbos is significant - not a problem as standard for mine.
A 99 may not be remappable, they didn't bring in the newage (denso) ECU until the 01 facelift.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 20th August 21:27
GravelBen said:
It won't be an STi, the only STi Legacy of that generation was the s401 which is 6-speed manual only.
The autos are detuned as standard compared to manuals (260 vs 280bhp)- engine number should probably start with EJ206, manual version is EJ208. You can free up a bit of extra power with a better flowing exhaust (turbos back + decat), intake side is pretty good as standard and aftermarket filters often cause premature AFM death. Otherwise a good boost controller, and/or zerosports sequential controller if the flat spot between turbos is significant - not a problem as standard for mine.
A 99 may not be remappable, they didn't bring in the newage (denso) ECU until the 01 facelift.
I'll have a look at the engine number tomorrow mate. Where should it be? The autos are detuned as standard compared to manuals (260 vs 280bhp)- engine number should probably start with EJ206, manual version is EJ208. You can free up a bit of extra power with a better flowing exhaust (turbos back + decat), intake side is pretty good as standard and aftermarket filters often cause premature AFM death. Otherwise a good boost controller, and/or zerosports sequential controller if the flat spot between turbos is significant - not a problem as standard for mine.
A 99 may not be remappable, they didn't bring in the newage (denso) ECU until the 01 facelift.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 20th August 21:27
I've just had a look at a couple of newage GT maps for both AT and MT. They are both identical in terms of boost, wastegate duties, timing, AFR's etc...so newage auto's are not detuned although i can't say that about classic versions as i don't have access to those maps.
This sounds like the same old wives tale about 2001/02 WRX's only having 218bhp and 2003/05 cars having 225bhp. Absolute rubbish as the mapping is identical and physically under the bonnet they are the same.
As far as i know Legacy GT's also had the option of 'Tuned by STi' but that only covered handling mods and interior changes. The S401 is a different kettle of fish based on the RSK and had a tuned ECU as well as the handling upgrades.
This sounds like the same old wives tale about 2001/02 WRX's only having 218bhp and 2003/05 cars having 225bhp. Absolute rubbish as the mapping is identical and physically under the bonnet they are the same.
As far as i know Legacy GT's also had the option of 'Tuned by STi' but that only covered handling mods and interior changes. The S401 is a different kettle of fish based on the RSK and had a tuned ECU as well as the handling upgrades.
ScoobieWRX said:
I've just had a look at a couple of newage GT maps for both AT and MT. They are both identical in terms of boost, wastegate duties, timing, AFR's etc...so newage auto's are not detuned although i can't say that about classic versions as i don't have access to those maps.
Newage meaning gen3 or gen4 Legacy? In the gen3 the auto is not just a different map, its a different motor with lower compression and a few other differences. Subaru don't put a different engine code on it for no reason 
The s401 was based on the gen3 rev D RSK, the major differences were the 6-speed box, STi suspension, big brembos and 18" wheels - they didn't do much to the engine at all. ETA I have heard that the power delivery is better than other TT Legacies, but nobody has confirmed that its better than any other rev D RSK/GTB.
I've never heard of a normal 'tuned by STi' gen3 Legacy... and if they existed they'd be common in NZ, most other Subarus are! You may be thinking of the Blitzen? That was cosmetic differences only but often misunderstood.
S401 for sale in NZ here:
http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,52...
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 21st August 13:25
ScoobieWRX said:
I've just had a look at a couple of newage GT maps for both AT and MT. They are both identical in terms of boost, wastegate duties, timing, AFR's etc...so newage auto's are not detuned although i can't say that about classic versions as i don't have access to those maps.
This sounds like the same old wives tale about 2001/02 WRX's only having 218bhp and 2003/05 cars having 225bhp. Absolute rubbish as the mapping is identical and physically under the bonnet they are the same.
As far as i know Legacy GT's also had the option of 'Tuned by STi' but that only covered handling mods and interior changes. The S401 is a different kettle of fish based on the RSK and had a tuned ECU as well as the handling upgrades.
Well mine has full leather, I don't know if that signifies anything.This sounds like the same old wives tale about 2001/02 WRX's only having 218bhp and 2003/05 cars having 225bhp. Absolute rubbish as the mapping is identical and physically under the bonnet they are the same.
As far as i know Legacy GT's also had the option of 'Tuned by STi' but that only covered handling mods and interior changes. The S401 is a different kettle of fish based on the RSK and had a tuned ECU as well as the handling upgrades.
Any links to specs by chassis numbers anywhere?
GravelBen said:
ScoobieWRX said:
I've just had a look at a couple of newage GT maps for both AT and MT. They are both identical in terms of boost, wastegate duties, timing, AFR's etc...so newage auto's are not detuned although i can't say that about classic versions as i don't have access to those maps.
Newage meaning gen3 or gen4 Legacy? In the gen3 the auto is not just a different map, its a different motor with lower compression and a few other differences. Subaru don't put a different engine code on it for no reason The s401 was based on the gen3 rev D RSK, the major differences were the 6-speed box, STi suspension, big brembos and 18" wheels - they didn't do much to the engine at all. ETA I have heard that the power delivery is better than other TT Legacies, but nobody has confirmed that its better than any other rev D RSK/GTB.
I've never heard of a normal 'tuned by STi' gen3 Legacy... and if they existed they'd be common in NZ, most other Subarus are! You may be thinking of the Blitzen? That was cosmetic differences only but often misunderstood.
S401 for sale in NZ here:
http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,52...
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 21st August 13:25
ETA: Can't get hold of any earlier maps at the moment to compare, only 2005 onwards. I bow to Ben's better judgement on older legacies.
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Friday 21st August 17:21
It sounds like you have the 260bhp engine, just not sure how mappable your ECU is if at all on your year of Legacy. It may be you need an aftermarket ECU to squeeze some more ponies out of it. Ben may know.
If you like Legacy's trade that in for a newer model 2005 onwards. They are very mappable on the Denso ECU.
If you like Legacy's trade that in for a newer model 2005 onwards. They are very mappable on the Denso ECU.
Mine has the denso (was introduced with the 01 rev-D facelift along with higher compression, different turbos etc) though I've resisted the urge to play with things so far. But as far as I know the ECU of the older versions isn't easily remappable.Most people who want big power will ditch the TT setup for a single or just buy an Impreza (or 03-> gen4 Legacy GT which had twinscroll single turbo). I like the flexibility and wide powerband of the twins though, and it should still be good for well over 300bhp if mapped well.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 21st August 23:05
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