TVR T350 quicker than a Lambo Murci?
Discussion
Extract from a Clarkson review of the T350C (I've left out the clever life changing observations that preclude every "review" 
) I read on The Times site:
..."And yet, by some considerable margin, this is the best TVR I’ve ever driven. With its integral roll cage it feels stiffer and more together, like all four corners are working in harmony, rather than in discord. And the brakes are just astonishing.
So’s the power. You may only get 3.6 litres and no forced induction, but you end up with a better power-to-weight ratio than you get from a Lamborghini Murciélago. That means it is seriously, properly, eye-poppingly fast.
And because it doesn’t try to bite your head off every time you make a mistake, you can use more of the power for more of the time."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_cl...
Couple of thoughts from my end:
1. Does this mean a T350 is quicker than a Murci? I wouldn't have thought so?
2. For all his TVR bashing, he seems to actually like the car overall!
3. When in your experience, does a T350 really and truly become eye-poopingly fast? Truth be told, it's bloody quick, but I've yet to experience a "f*ck me, let's get off the loud pedal here chaps!" moment personally. Then again, I've been stuck in London with no prospect of a track or Scotland in two plus months!
4. And for pub talk, what is the weight of a TVR T350 with the tank full and are most cars good for the full 350bhp?
) I read on The Times site:..."And yet, by some considerable margin, this is the best TVR I’ve ever driven. With its integral roll cage it feels stiffer and more together, like all four corners are working in harmony, rather than in discord. And the brakes are just astonishing.
So’s the power. You may only get 3.6 litres and no forced induction, but you end up with a better power-to-weight ratio than you get from a Lamborghini Murciélago. That means it is seriously, properly, eye-poppingly fast.
And because it doesn’t try to bite your head off every time you make a mistake, you can use more of the power for more of the time."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_cl...
Couple of thoughts from my end:
1. Does this mean a T350 is quicker than a Murci? I wouldn't have thought so?
2. For all his TVR bashing, he seems to actually like the car overall!
3. When in your experience, does a T350 really and truly become eye-poopingly fast? Truth be told, it's bloody quick, but I've yet to experience a "f*ck me, let's get off the loud pedal here chaps!" moment personally. Then again, I've been stuck in London with no prospect of a track or Scotland in two plus months!
4. And for pub talk, what is the weight of a TVR T350 with the tank full and are most cars good for the full 350bhp?
1. Does this mean a T350 is quicker than a Murci? I wouldn't have thought so?
I very much doubt it, though it could probably give one a run for it money especially on the twisties where the smaller and more nimble qualities of the 350 would shine - but straight line??
2. For all his TVR bashing, he seems to actually like the car overall!
When Clarkson is not hamming it up for the camera with stereotypes he is actually a good reviewer. Not sure if you've ever seen his Cerbera review (on youtube somewhere) which is a fairly long piece from when the Cerb first came out and he loved it! Even hammond liked the 350 when TopGear reviewed it, a summary also shared by VBH on 5th gear.
3. When in your experience, does a T350 really and truly become eye-poopingly fast? Truth be told, it's bloody quick, but I've yet to experience a "f*ck me, let's get off the loud pedal here chaps!" moment personally. Then again, I've been stuck in London with no prospect of a track or Scotland in two plus months!
I agree! It is quick but not 'that' quick, though if ever I sat in the pax seat I may change my mind as it's always a different feeling from the drivers side. The only car to ever feel like that to me so far is a Gallardo
4. And for pub talk, what is the weight of a TVR T350 with the tank full and are most cars good for the full 350bhp?
Not too sure of the exact weight but I do remember some stats showing around 320bhp per tonne though I can't be at all sure how accurate they are. Mine is pretty much dead on 350bhp at the fly!
I very much doubt it, though it could probably give one a run for it money especially on the twisties where the smaller and more nimble qualities of the 350 would shine - but straight line??
2. For all his TVR bashing, he seems to actually like the car overall!
When Clarkson is not hamming it up for the camera with stereotypes he is actually a good reviewer. Not sure if you've ever seen his Cerbera review (on youtube somewhere) which is a fairly long piece from when the Cerb first came out and he loved it! Even hammond liked the 350 when TopGear reviewed it, a summary also shared by VBH on 5th gear.
3. When in your experience, does a T350 really and truly become eye-poopingly fast? Truth be told, it's bloody quick, but I've yet to experience a "f*ck me, let's get off the loud pedal here chaps!" moment personally. Then again, I've been stuck in London with no prospect of a track or Scotland in two plus months!
I agree! It is quick but not 'that' quick, though if ever I sat in the pax seat I may change my mind as it's always a different feeling from the drivers side. The only car to ever feel like that to me so far is a Gallardo
4. And for pub talk, what is the weight of a TVR T350 with the tank full and are most cars good for the full 350bhp?
Not too sure of the exact weight but I do remember some stats showing around 320bhp per tonne though I can't be at all sure how accurate they are. Mine is pretty much dead on 350bhp at the fly!
Edited by Zippee on Tuesday 25th August 11:20
Hi AdvocatusD,
Sorry to never get back to you re owning a TVR in London - guess you've worked it all out by now (speed humps are a pain & need to be taken slowly...)
I see you are a biker - Whilst not one myself I'm not sure any car can match a bike for being 'fast'. Unless you know otherwise.
The Speed 6 engine needs revving and has two power bulges. The first at just over 3000 rpm (pretty much nothing there before this) and the second at about 5800. These need to be experienced particularly in 2nd & 3rd gear (although the latter is perhaps inadvisable in town). If you haven't tried this yet this may be where you are going wrong!
I would recommend giving it a go on the track at some point.
Jev.
Sorry to never get back to you re owning a TVR in London - guess you've worked it all out by now (speed humps are a pain & need to be taken slowly...)
I see you are a biker - Whilst not one myself I'm not sure any car can match a bike for being 'fast'. Unless you know otherwise.
The Speed 6 engine needs revving and has two power bulges. The first at just over 3000 rpm (pretty much nothing there before this) and the second at about 5800. These need to be experienced particularly in 2nd & 3rd gear (although the latter is perhaps inadvisable in town). If you haven't tried this yet this may be where you are going wrong!
I would recommend giving it a go on the track at some point.
Jev.
Top Gear lap times say Lambo 1:24 and T350 1:27,5. Sag and Tuscan (MKII) are around 1:24 so I guess a T350 4.0 with the right suspension would be pretty close to the Lambo too. In a straight line, at higher speed, the Lambo will pull away pretty fast I think (it's weight less of an issue).
A lambo Murci(the 1st edition) will do a standing quarter mile in 12.6 seconds accourding to wiki, Could a TVR T350 do this? I think a press car could with a good start, it all depends on the launch, I think the lambo is 4wd so its garanteed a good get away every time unlike the TVR,
A lambo murci 572hp (1st one) will do 0-150mph in 21.4secs its alot slower than an LP640 where even the cab version of this will do it in low 16's. A 4.5 cerb can do high 17's-18's and a SAGARIS is around 20.
Conclusion, from 30-70mph there will not be much in it both cars will accelerate this in sub 3.5seconds but the new LP640 can do this in 2.8 so i think that would pull a few car lengths on a t350, very much like I feel a 4.5 cerb would too.
A lambo murci 572hp (1st one) will do 0-150mph in 21.4secs its alot slower than an LP640 where even the cab version of this will do it in low 16's. A 4.5 cerb can do high 17's-18's and a SAGARIS is around 20.
Conclusion, from 30-70mph there will not be much in it both cars will accelerate this in sub 3.5seconds but the new LP640 can do this in 2.8 so i think that would pull a few car lengths on a t350, very much like I feel a 4.5 cerb would too.
Edited by crimbo on Tuesday 25th August 23:33
GT TVR said:
An 4.0S/Sag with CR box and 3.91 diff can do 8 sec to 100 mph in optima forma so I guess a 4.3 should be quicker than that, 7.5 maybe?
What does optima forma give for STD box and 3.73 diff with 4.3 then?And 50-70 if you don't mind?
G
Edited by VARLEYHYD on Wednesday 26th August 12:44
VARLEYHYD said:
GT TVR said:
An 4.0S/Sag with CR box and 3.91 diff can do 8 sec to 100 mph in optima forma so I guess a 4.3 should be quicker than that, 7.5 maybe?
What does optima forma give for STD box and 3.73 diff with 4.3 then?And 50-70 if you don't mind?
G
Edited by VARLEYHYD on Wednesday 26th August 12:44
Gerjo's figures are taken from a real scenario (my Sagaris)not a simulation (don't let's go there please, folk get insulted for no good reason...).
crimbo said:
A lambo Murci(the 1st edition) will do a standing quarter mile in 12.6 seconds accourding to wiki, Could a TVR T350 do this? I think a press car could with a good start, it all depends on the launch, I think the lambo is 4wd so its garanteed a good get away every time unlike the TVR,
A lambo murci 572hp (1st one) will do 0-150mph in 21.4secs its alot slower than an LP640 where even the cab version of this will do it in low 16's. A 4.5 cerb can do high 17's-18's and a SAGARIS is around 20.
Conclusion, from 30-70mph there will not be much in it both cars will accelerate this in sub 3.5seconds but the new LP640 can do this in 2.8 so i think that would pull a few car lengths on a t350, very much like I feel a 4.5 cerb would too.
I have my own performance meter which I used for a few runs a year or so ago. What it showed is that a 0-60mph time with an average launch is around the sub 4.5s mark. The best I managed out of about 6 runs was 4.0s dead and I would be confident of getting under that as these runs were done with Goodyear Eagle F1's on tarmac and with standard tyre pressures and fuel [I have the 3.46 diff with C/R box]. A set of warm R888's i'm sure would improve those times. As for the 1/4 mile, I did a single run on tarmac and ran out of (private) road but still managed 12.4s with a 108mph terminal. Again, this time was set with the F1's and again could be improved upon as I would have expected my terminal to have been around the 116mph mark - sub 12s who knows probably ?. As for 4.5 cerbs doing 17-18 sec 0-150mph not likely - a good 400+bhp 4.5 will take around 26s to reach 158mph (have a look at the 2007 fighting torque results). The problem the cerbs i've seen have is putting the power down off the line - it would be interesting to see how Power's 4.3 SP6 copes with the extra torque because I think it might make launching difficult.A lambo murci 572hp (1st one) will do 0-150mph in 21.4secs its alot slower than an LP640 where even the cab version of this will do it in low 16's. A 4.5 cerb can do high 17's-18's and a SAGARIS is around 20.
Conclusion, from 30-70mph there will not be much in it both cars will accelerate this in sub 3.5seconds but the new LP640 can do this in 2.8 so i think that would pull a few car lengths on a t350, very much like I feel a 4.5 cerb would too.
Edited by crimbo on Tuesday 25th August 23:33
Edited by s5tvr on Wednesday 26th August 13:41
my stats were taken from various articles on the net, topgear and autocar state there 4.5ltr red rose cerb will do 150mph in 18's, but from what I have seen some TVR's go like stink and others dont, i would like to see say 10 factory built cars do 0-150mph side by side because I reckon some would be in a different league to others,
s5tvr said:
The best I managed out of about 6 runs was 4.0s dead and I would be confident of getting under that as these runs were done with Goodyear Eagle F1's on tarmac and with standard tyre pressures and fuel (I have the 3.46 diff with C/R box).
You're my hero.If you go the route of R888s let me know, I have an excellent source for clutches. Sub 4s with a 3,46 and a CR box is serious clutch punishment!
IMHO.
Edited by TVR_owner on Wednesday 26th August 14:33
TVR_owner said:
s5tvr said:
The best I managed out of about 6 runs was 4.0s dead and I would be confident of getting under that as these runs were done with Goodyear Eagle F1's on tarmac and with standard tyre pressures and fuel (I have the 3.46 diff with C/R box).
You're my hero.If you go the route of R888s let me know, I have an excellent source for clutches. Sub 4s with a 3,46 and a CR box is serious clutch punishment!
IMHO.
Edited by TVR_owner on Wednesday 26th August 14:33
Since we're "comparing" things here, I just had a look through the classifieds and came across some very tasty looking super-charged (post factory mods), turbo'd Elises and Exiges.
They all seem to claim a minimum of 300 bhp, upto 350 bhp.
I would think that with their light weight and superb handling characteristics (though the TVRs where debating are hardly overweight buses!), most TVRs wouldn't see where these Lotus' went.
In terms of outright grunt, do you think the TVRs start to catch up on tracks where there's more of a straight? One ad was claiming his Lotus was doing sub-4s to 60... does it run out of puff later you think?
I drove a 240 CUP R back to back with a Sagaris a couple of years ago, and the lack of puff was pretty clear even on a motorway. However, I would think the extra 50 bhp would make a BIG diff!
They all seem to claim a minimum of 300 bhp, upto 350 bhp.
I would think that with their light weight and superb handling characteristics (though the TVRs where debating are hardly overweight buses!), most TVRs wouldn't see where these Lotus' went.
In terms of outright grunt, do you think the TVRs start to catch up on tracks where there's more of a straight? One ad was claiming his Lotus was doing sub-4s to 60... does it run out of puff later you think?
I drove a 240 CUP R back to back with a Sagaris a couple of years ago, and the lack of puff was pretty clear even on a motorway. However, I would think the extra 50 bhp would make a BIG diff!
Edited by AdvocatusD on Wednesday 26th August 15:10
TVR_owner said:
VARLEYHYD said:
GT TVR said:
An 4.0S/Sag with CR box and 3.91 diff can do 8 sec to 100 mph in optima forma so I guess a 4.3 should be quicker than that, 7.5 maybe?
What does optima forma give for STD box and 3.73 diff with 4.3 then?And 50-70 if you don't mind?
G
Gerjo's figures are taken from a real scenario (my Sagaris)not a simulation (don't let's go there please, folk get insulted for no good reason...).
Thats why I ask
G
tailslide with his CR-3.91 may have some good RPB figures too!
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