Ferrari 308 - which one ?
Discussion
Dear all,
I am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
I am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
Later cars have better rust protection and are of course that little bit newer (24 years old instead of 32)
If you ignore the i's they are all pretty much the same with regards to perfomance, the carb cars sound better, but the trade off is that the QV's are almost as reliable as a similar age golf gti if cared for properly, they both have around 240bhp when in fine fettle. (if you go for a carb car, look for a dry sump motor, there are benefits on track days)
Electrics will always be an issue unless the fuse board and all the connectors have been replaced
Check all the hoses for rot, people like to keep the outside shiny but sometimes miss little things like fuel hoses!
Some gearboxes are a bit difficult to get into second from cold and some clutchs are stiffer than others, I drove an almost perfect 308gtb qv on monday where the clutch was almost light and the gearbox was silky smooth
In 10-15 years these cars will be worth considerably more than they are now
If you ignore the i's they are all pretty much the same with regards to perfomance, the carb cars sound better, but the trade off is that the QV's are almost as reliable as a similar age golf gti if cared for properly, they both have around 240bhp when in fine fettle. (if you go for a carb car, look for a dry sump motor, there are benefits on track days)
Electrics will always be an issue unless the fuse board and all the connectors have been replaced
Check all the hoses for rot, people like to keep the outside shiny but sometimes miss little things like fuel hoses!
Some gearboxes are a bit difficult to get into second from cold and some clutchs are stiffer than others, I drove an almost perfect 308gtb qv on monday where the clutch was almost light and the gearbox was silky smooth
In 10-15 years these cars will be worth considerably more than they are now
I don't have a copy (yet) but have seen the Alan Henry "Ferrari Dino 246,308 and 328" book reccomended on here...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferrari-Dino-246-308-328/d...
As regards fibreglass models, what is the 'long' term life expectancy of these? I was wondering if it would be similar story to the original Lotus Elite's and Elan's as you do here about people requireing new Chassis-Body units which sounds expen$ive.
http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elite.html
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferrari-Dino-246-308-328/d...
As regards fibreglass models, what is the 'long' term life expectancy of these? I was wondering if it would be similar story to the original Lotus Elite's and Elan's as you do here about people requireing new Chassis-Body units which sounds expen$ive.
http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elite.html
MogulBoy said:
I don't have a copy (yet) but have seen the Alan Henry "Ferrari Dino 246,308 and 328" book reccomended on here...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferrari-Dino-246-308-328/d...
As regards fibreglass models, what is the 'long' term life expectancy of these? I was wondering if it would be similar story to the original Lotus Elite's and Elan's as you do here about people requireing new Chassis-Body units which sounds expen$ive.
http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elite.html
The body is very well made and isnt a massively stressed part of the shell so wont suffer like the elites did, the chassis is the usual Ferrari effort made out of thick oval tubing, the rest of the underbody metal is the traditional expensive thin rusty stuff, not difficult to remake but can be time consuming to fit http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferrari-Dino-246-308-328/d...
As regards fibreglass models, what is the 'long' term life expectancy of these? I was wondering if it would be similar story to the original Lotus Elite's and Elan's as you do here about people requireing new Chassis-Body units which sounds expen$ive.
http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elite.html
You may also want to check out the Dino book by Tony Curtis (no not that Tony Curtis)
Edited by AndrewW-G on Wednesday 26th August 16:53
I recently went through the same process, less of a childhood dream but more a growing appreciation of iconic design and beauty. For me, the 308 does not have the excess and complexity of later models but is modern enough not to need the constant attention that some older models have. For this reason I ended up going for a QV. Everything I have read and the helpful advice I have received says get the best you can afford and get the car checked over by someone who knows what to look for (Andrew W-G helped me, a very knowledgeable and honest guy).
This is just my personal view on price (I am just a newbie!), but for me, I would be wary of anything sub 20k, unless you have the capability / cash to deal with any short comings. The 308 seems to be a car that can be used and enjoyed while not necessarily costing an arm and a leg to keep on the road - provided you start with a good one and give it the recommended TLC. I pick mine up in a couple of weeks time so hopefully will be posting first impressions.
Good luck with your search.
CMD
This is just my personal view on price (I am just a newbie!), but for me, I would be wary of anything sub 20k, unless you have the capability / cash to deal with any short comings. The 308 seems to be a car that can be used and enjoyed while not necessarily costing an arm and a leg to keep on the road - provided you start with a good one and give it the recommended TLC. I pick mine up in a couple of weeks time so hopefully will be posting first impressions.
Good luck with your search.
CMD
QV - simple, reliable injection, just about quick enough. in theory, the youngest and thus less steel will have turned to iron oxide...."in theory"...electrics, laughable....
"in 10-15 years they will be worth more"...that's what the market has been saying about Testarossas since 1998.... By rights, the 308 should be worth half a 246, but it isn't, and I don't see it going that way anytime soon....but that's good news for buyers...
"in 10-15 years they will be worth more"...that's what the market has been saying about Testarossas since 1998.... By rights, the 308 should be worth half a 246, but it isn't, and I don't see it going that way anytime soon....but that's good news for buyers...
Thanks for the feedback - I'm starting looking next weekend, and I'll always get a potential purchase checked over by Foskers who are local to me.
Are not the glassfibre 308's GTBs only, I prefer to GTS.
By the way, I am also looking at P300 Urracos; does anyone have any direct experience of a P300 against a 308 QV ?
Are not the glassfibre 308's GTBs only, I prefer to GTS.
By the way, I am also looking at P300 Urracos; does anyone have any direct experience of a P300 against a 308 QV ?
slurpysi said:
Thanks for the feedback - I'm starting looking next weekend, and I'll always get a potential purchase checked over by Foskers who are local to me.
Are not the glassfibre 308's GTBs only, I prefer to GTS.
By the way, I am also looking at P300 Urracos; does anyone have any direct experience of a P300 against a 308 QV ?
Yep Veterosina / GRP 308 GTB's 1976-77 Steel GTB's & GTS's 77-85 Are not the glassfibre 308's GTBs only, I prefer to GTS.
By the way, I am also looking at P300 Urracos; does anyone have any direct experience of a P300 against a 308 QV ?
slurpysi said:
Dear all,
I am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
3 basic types of 308 - Carb cars, 2V incection (GTSi) & 4 Valve injection (QV). Early Carb cars were fibreglass - not sure if there were ant glass GTS's now that you mention it.I am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
QV is most powerful at an (alledged) 240 ish BHP. 2V injection the least.
A 308 will be a huge step back from a 355 in terms of performance. Not to say it isn't fun to drive but its an old car now and you should set expectations accordingly in terms of power, handling and braking.
All 308s ran on silly Michelin TRX metric wheels & tyres which are horrid and expensive. Wheels can be upgraded to take std size tyres (same as a 328) from either QV or superformance for under a grand.
Buy on condition, not mileage. A car that has had regular use is likely to have fewer gremlins & less stuff that just doesn't work. Most importantly look for rust everywhere & anywhere.
Also possibly consider a 328 - not that much more money & generally better sorted. However, also not usually to the taste of the "308 purist" !
Iain328 said:
slurpysi said:
Dear all,
I am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
3 basic types of 308 - Carb cars, 2V incection (GTSi) & 4 Valve injection (QV). Early Carb cars were fibreglass - not sure if there were ant glass GTS's now that you mention it. None, all GTB'sI am considering fulfilling my childhood dreams and getting a red 308 GTS. Which is the best model to go for. I presume the fuel injection is too slow, so is a QV better than an early carb model. I am trading down from a 355 so don't want to feel too disappointed !
What should I pay - I see medium mileage QV's for early £20/-s, or does this buy a load of trouble
QV is most powerful at an (alledged) 240 ish BHP. 2V injection the least. Early sprint spec Carb cars most powerfull, but less effective
A 308 will be a huge step back from a 355 in terms of performance. Not to say it isn't fun to drive but its an old car now and you should set expectations accordingly in terms of power, handling and braking.
All 308s ran on silly Michelin TRX metric wheels & tyres which are horrid and expensive. Wheels can be upgraded to take std size tyres (same as a 328) from either QV or superformance for under a grand. early cars used 14" wheels with 16"'s optional on QV's
Buy on condition, not mileage. A car that has had regular use is likely to have fewer gremlins & less stuff that just doesn't work. Most importantly look for rust everywhere & anywhere.
Also possibly consider a 328 - not that much more money & generally better sorted. However, also not usually to the taste of the "308 purist" !
Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 27th August 13:01
I have also recently fulfilled a childhood dream and bought a 308 Gts QV. I've had it about 4 months now and absolutely love it.
I chose the QV as they are generally supposed to be more reliable and there are more around for sale.
20K+ should get you a nice example, there has been one advertised on here for around the last year which looks in very good condition with a full history. They've slowly reduced the price in that time and it was recently on ebay with a starting bid of 23K, so might be worth a look.
Fchat is a good source of information, particularly for parts crossover, as many of them were from other manufacturers, for example the knob was missing off my remote wing mirror control. They are also used on a BMW 5 series and i got a complete unit off ebay for £5!
I chose the QV as they are generally supposed to be more reliable and there are more around for sale.
20K+ should get you a nice example, there has been one advertised on here for around the last year which looks in very good condition with a full history. They've slowly reduced the price in that time and it was recently on ebay with a starting bid of 23K, so might be worth a look.
Fchat is a good source of information, particularly for parts crossover, as many of them were from other manufacturers, for example the knob was missing off my remote wing mirror control. They are also used on a BMW 5 series and i got a complete unit off ebay for £5!
Edited by Malh001 on Friday 28th August 11:32
If you are considering a GRP (Fibreglass) car then the following should be noted.
Just because the panels are GRP it does not mean they don't rust!
We have an ultra low miles & well looked after RHD one in at the moment that has had to have new sills fabricated along with a fair amount of work to the inner structure as well.......................
Also very prone rust are the steel A pillar/windscreen frame panels, correct replacement of these entails removal of the entire front clip assembly!..........
Anyone stating that the GRP is of high quality is rather mistaken, in my experience it does not seem to suffer from the star crazing of some cars of similar period/construction it does have issues of it's own.
The fit & finish of the GRP cars was legendarily poor!!!!!!!!!!!!
They suffer from a very porous gel coat..................
(which, as you can see, is orange) this is a problem that carried over to the front & rear valences on the steel bodied cars (Injection 308's excepted on front - before anyone picks me up on it
)
They also suffer badly from heavy cracking around the rear lid hinge aperture - generally due to people being heavy handed with the opening...........
The condition of the rear 'screen is also critical - it is bonded (unlike the later cars) & is A) a nightmare to remove without damage, B) the finisher trim (unique to the GRP cars) is extremely fragile & easily damaged & C) the body moulding in that area is of very poor quality - see below!................
Hope this helps.
All the best, Al.
Just because the panels are GRP it does not mean they don't rust!
We have an ultra low miles & well looked after RHD one in at the moment that has had to have new sills fabricated along with a fair amount of work to the inner structure as well.......................
Also very prone rust are the steel A pillar/windscreen frame panels, correct replacement of these entails removal of the entire front clip assembly!..........
Anyone stating that the GRP is of high quality is rather mistaken, in my experience it does not seem to suffer from the star crazing of some cars of similar period/construction it does have issues of it's own.
The fit & finish of the GRP cars was legendarily poor!!!!!!!!!!!!
They suffer from a very porous gel coat..................
(which, as you can see, is orange) this is a problem that carried over to the front & rear valences on the steel bodied cars (Injection 308's excepted on front - before anyone picks me up on it
)They also suffer badly from heavy cracking around the rear lid hinge aperture - generally due to people being heavy handed with the opening...........
The condition of the rear 'screen is also critical - it is bonded (unlike the later cars) & is A) a nightmare to remove without damage, B) the finisher trim (unique to the GRP cars) is extremely fragile & easily damaged & C) the body moulding in that area is of very poor quality - see below!................
Hope this helps.
All the best, Al.
Take wise desicion and buy the vetroresina. By the way this car is lighter and has dry sump. Not many around. I do not think a 308 resina is slower then 355. Handling of 308 is also really good. Buy the resina and you will be driving a 308 for free and very probably earn money on the car because prices are going up. Just few hundred made.
By the way i own one. Try buying a lhd easier to sell if you want. RHD can be bought with discount over LHD as far as i can see on the internet.A lot of 308 were made and just a few vetroresina's.
By the way i own one. Try buying a lhd easier to sell if you want. RHD can be bought with discount over LHD as far as i can see on the internet.A lot of 308 were made and just a few vetroresina's.
Just my views.
I agree about the last poster about the quality of the fibreglass cars. They were made of fibreglass as Ferrari didn't know if the model would sell well after the sales disapointment of the GT4. It was cheaper to tool up for a fibreglass car. But as pointed out the steel bits rust a lot!
Rust proofing of a sort came in 1982 with the QV. The panels were sort of galvanised but they still rust!
The carb cars make a much nicer noise and feel more alive, but have less fuel economy and also need more TLC! Once set up properly they go well. The fuel injected cars only sound good at the top end and with a sports exhaust
A 328 has slightly more power 275 and had more 'fixes', but the body is no differnt in rust terms than the QV as it was an identical process.
There is a performance difference with the 355, which was two models on from the 308 ( 328 and 348). The step up in real world terms from the 328 isn't vast and is more noticeable at the top end. Depends on how you drive and where you drive! All these cars are quick, but not fast in modern terms.
Prices will never be crazy as there were so many of these cars, about 20,000 of all types 308-328. That is what makes them such a good buy
Classic and sports car did a feauture last month on buying a cheap Ferrari which featured my 328, soI think the article was good! lol
my view: Buy a carb GTS and love that noise!!!
I agree about the last poster about the quality of the fibreglass cars. They were made of fibreglass as Ferrari didn't know if the model would sell well after the sales disapointment of the GT4. It was cheaper to tool up for a fibreglass car. But as pointed out the steel bits rust a lot!
Rust proofing of a sort came in 1982 with the QV. The panels were sort of galvanised but they still rust!
The carb cars make a much nicer noise and feel more alive, but have less fuel economy and also need more TLC! Once set up properly they go well. The fuel injected cars only sound good at the top end and with a sports exhaust
A 328 has slightly more power 275 and had more 'fixes', but the body is no differnt in rust terms than the QV as it was an identical process.
There is a performance difference with the 355, which was two models on from the 308 ( 328 and 348). The step up in real world terms from the 328 isn't vast and is more noticeable at the top end. Depends on how you drive and where you drive! All these cars are quick, but not fast in modern terms.
Prices will never be crazy as there were so many of these cars, about 20,000 of all types 308-328. That is what makes them such a good buy
Classic and sports car did a feauture last month on buying a cheap Ferrari which featured my 328, soI think the article was good! lol
my view: Buy a carb GTS and love that noise!!!
JoyZipper said:
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