Emerald vs Megasquirt
Discussion
I like emeralds because you can phone up and speak to the guy who designed the system, and the guy who does more mapping than anyone else and get a straight answer. Ive looked at the MS and Vems forums etc and they're frankly bewilderingly mind boggling. for that reason alone id be going emerald especially if its a first install.
You are aware that the cost of the ECU is significant, but not the total cost of an installation? When you add up the coil packs, extra sensors, wiring, trigger wheel (& pulley re-balancing if you bother), wideband (if you want/need it) ... then remapping.. the cost of the ECU may be less of a factor?
If you are planning on having someone do the installation for you, they will have their own preferences and well practiced methods of installation, which avoids the flexibility / installation decisions that you might ( or might not ) find attractive?
If you are planning on having someone do the installation for you, they will have their own preferences and well practiced methods of installation, which avoids the flexibility / installation decisions that you might ( or might not ) find attractive?
HAving been back on Dave's rollers this week I'm bound to say that he's a top fella and the Emeraldis a great piece of kit.
When I installed mine I took the opportunity to have a complete new engine loom made that included all the additional elements that I wanted.
- 2 Stage fans, connected in the footwell (no additional engine bay wiring)
- Shift light,hidden in column cowl
- WB (went LC-1 first, now on the bench and Dynojet in place running very well) so running adaptive mapping for some of the map, not all.
- I've also just moved the air temp sensor to the airbox (at Dave's on Tuesday it reads exactly what the air temp was according to the room thermometer and not what the manifold heated previous placement read - 30 degrees difference)
A custom loom is going to cost you £3-£500 probably, depending on spec and who does it, but I can't recommend Paul Dove who did mine and other work for Emerald enough.
Trigger wheels can cost from as little as £20 to £125 and you'll need to check on the balancing of your engine. A sensor is cheap enough, plus you'll need to fab a bracket to hold in place or you can buy the JE kit which has one - although again this kit may not work on your engine
Coil packs - I run P38 ones, but others prefer the Ford items. New the Ford items are a lot cheaper, although i picked up my P38 ones on Ebay for less than new Ford ones and the key advantage was they are on a bracket which fits onto the inlet manifold behind the plenum - no more fabbing brackets needed.
Do you want to change injectors ? What state are the ones you've got ? If you change injectors are you changing the fuel pressure regulator, you could upgrade the throttle size to 72mm . . .. etc etc etc . .
Once you start down the road there is a lot more to than chaging the ECU plug. I would recommend a new loom as the TVR one is not great and the difference in terms of reliability, neatness, lack of load of dead ends and unnecessary gubbins between the 2 is very significant.
Be clear exactly what you want to get from the change. I did mine motivated in getting the best from a re-built engine in terms of drivability and usability as I do plenty of miles and the Lucas system was already running an aftermarket chip just ti stop it running too lean. The Emerald gave me a platform to make a number of changes and then adjust to other changes as I made them. I was never after big numbers and it has delivered everything I wanted.
Emerald is only 30mins down twisty roads for me, which is another reason I chose to go this route and Dave Walker is so patient, willing to talk and explain and support his kit that I'm very pleased with what I now have.
When I installed mine I took the opportunity to have a complete new engine loom made that included all the additional elements that I wanted.
- 2 Stage fans, connected in the footwell (no additional engine bay wiring)
- Shift light,hidden in column cowl
- WB (went LC-1 first, now on the bench and Dynojet in place running very well) so running adaptive mapping for some of the map, not all.
- I've also just moved the air temp sensor to the airbox (at Dave's on Tuesday it reads exactly what the air temp was according to the room thermometer and not what the manifold heated previous placement read - 30 degrees difference)
A custom loom is going to cost you £3-£500 probably, depending on spec and who does it, but I can't recommend Paul Dove who did mine and other work for Emerald enough.
Trigger wheels can cost from as little as £20 to £125 and you'll need to check on the balancing of your engine. A sensor is cheap enough, plus you'll need to fab a bracket to hold in place or you can buy the JE kit which has one - although again this kit may not work on your engine
Coil packs - I run P38 ones, but others prefer the Ford items. New the Ford items are a lot cheaper, although i picked up my P38 ones on Ebay for less than new Ford ones and the key advantage was they are on a bracket which fits onto the inlet manifold behind the plenum - no more fabbing brackets needed.
Do you want to change injectors ? What state are the ones you've got ? If you change injectors are you changing the fuel pressure regulator, you could upgrade the throttle size to 72mm . . .. etc etc etc . .
Once you start down the road there is a lot more to than chaging the ECU plug. I would recommend a new loom as the TVR one is not great and the difference in terms of reliability, neatness, lack of load of dead ends and unnecessary gubbins between the 2 is very significant.
Be clear exactly what you want to get from the change. I did mine motivated in getting the best from a re-built engine in terms of drivability and usability as I do plenty of miles and the Lucas system was already running an aftermarket chip just ti stop it running too lean. The Emerald gave me a platform to make a number of changes and then adjust to other changes as I made them. I was never after big numbers and it has delivered everything I wanted.
Emerald is only 30mins down twisty roads for me, which is another reason I chose to go this route and Dave Walker is so patient, willing to talk and explain and support his kit that I'm very pleased with what I now have.
I'm probably a little bias on this subject as I did my own MS instalaltion. Write up on the Griff pages below
.
http://www.thegriffithpages.com/index.php?option=c...
There are pros and cons to both, I went with my wallet and the aftermarket support I could get with the MS plus other cars in the region with the same installation I could have a look at. I did look into the emerald but just could not understand it
, I'm not saying it's the wrong way to go, just the way my mind works it understood the MS website information better than the emerald sites I found.
Results whatever you are looking will be similar with both, it is just a matter of cost and understanding.
In the end with a RR session I did mine for £1100, that then gave me change for the new camshaft, which has yet to be sellected.
Which ever way you go you won't be disapointed the gain I achieved is far bigger than I had ever dreamed of and the car is a differnt beast.
I would suggest if you can have ago in a car with emerald or MS on and then drive it and yours back to back then you will realy see the difference.
.http://www.thegriffithpages.com/index.php?option=c...
There are pros and cons to both, I went with my wallet and the aftermarket support I could get with the MS plus other cars in the region with the same installation I could have a look at. I did look into the emerald but just could not understand it
, I'm not saying it's the wrong way to go, just the way my mind works it understood the MS website information better than the emerald sites I found.Results whatever you are looking will be similar with both, it is just a matter of cost and understanding.
In the end with a RR session I did mine for £1100, that then gave me change for the new camshaft, which has yet to be sellected.
Which ever way you go you won't be disapointed the gain I achieved is far bigger than I had ever dreamed of and the car is a differnt beast.
I would suggest if you can have ago in a car with emerald or MS on and then drive it and yours back to back then you will realy see the difference.
If you are semi-capable in the logic and soldering dept with a DIY flare.. then MS will open a wonderful world of how EFI works. I personally found the whole MS/EDIS install in my Griff a great experience, learnt heaps and did everything myself. This also means I screwed up some things, learnt and rectified my mistakes.
The alternative is to utilise someone else's experience.
The alternative is to utilise someone else's experience.
Might be of interest - I had mine installed by these guys a couple of years ago - they still have pics on thier site of my car under going the instaltion (look under gallery section - grey griff).
www.jkm.org.uk/performance/index.htm
Steve
www.jkm.org.uk/performance/index.htm
Steve
I have fitted an Emerald to my Griff over the early part of this year, I would second the comments about Dave Walker being very helpfull with my questions.
Also there are some very good people about for mapping,(Emerald is just a bit too far for me).
There are a few things to get your head around but nothing major, plus its a great relief being able to plug in and see what is going on.
Also there are some very good people about for mapping,(Emerald is just a bit too far for me).
There are a few things to get your head around but nothing major, plus its a great relief being able to plug in and see what is going on.
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