Canon 5D Mk 2 and Hi Def video...
Discussion
Howdy,
I'm a Nikon man myself but I must admit that the idea of clowning around with HD video with the same camera I do stills with is quite appealing. The new uber Canon clearly is capable of awesome quality.
On the other hand, getting my "creative head" tuned into HD video when engaging on a still photo session may be hard. Or is it?
Anyone here have the new Canon and how are they getting on with the idea of stills and video from a creative perspective..?
I am intrigued.
We did'nt have these choices when I was learning photography. It was movies or still cameras and the two did'nt mix !
I'm a Nikon man myself but I must admit that the idea of clowning around with HD video with the same camera I do stills with is quite appealing. The new uber Canon clearly is capable of awesome quality.
On the other hand, getting my "creative head" tuned into HD video when engaging on a still photo session may be hard. Or is it?
Anyone here have the new Canon and how are they getting on with the idea of stills and video from a creative perspective..?
I am intrigued.
We did'nt have these choices when I was learning photography. It was movies or still cameras and the two did'nt mix !
We have one at work and have done lots of various work with it.
Infact, we are taking two (hopefully) for a shoot next week because they are actually really handy.
We have a pair of HVX200 which are great cameras (we use them more in a studio environment with power, pc's and hdd's etc), but when you go to film something relatively 'unknown' away from resources (no not ideal but we often do go into the unknown on random projects), they are nice and flexible, compact etc, which isn't the case with the HVX200 for example.
Plug in a decent microphone via whatever mixer you want (if you want), and they get stereo sound ok as well.
Then you have nice features like using whatever lenses you want, so you can get a nice filmic shallow depth of field and (with the latest firmware) nice control over the exposure settings and so on. You can find the framerate and f-stop to suit the shot really nicely.
It'll do 12min takes if needed, the MOV encoding seems pretty good quality, we have used them for chromakey footage and they are almost as nice as the 100mbit HVX200 HD format for keeping good green info.
You get full 1080p too, with square pixels, so nice sharp footage with lots of info (no stretched pixels)
They really are fantastic imho.
I've been tempted to sell up my Nikon bits, and throw in another £1000 or so to get one.
All depends if you want to tinker with film I suppose. It certainly is a 'side' feature that has been featured well, especially with the new firmware giving you proper 'manual' mode, as it were (before it was kinda automatic in some areas, stopping down way too early unless you did an AE lock, rather than changing the shutter speed)
Dave
Infact, we are taking two (hopefully) for a shoot next week because they are actually really handy.
We have a pair of HVX200 which are great cameras (we use them more in a studio environment with power, pc's and hdd's etc), but when you go to film something relatively 'unknown' away from resources (no not ideal but we often do go into the unknown on random projects), they are nice and flexible, compact etc, which isn't the case with the HVX200 for example.
Plug in a decent microphone via whatever mixer you want (if you want), and they get stereo sound ok as well.
Then you have nice features like using whatever lenses you want, so you can get a nice filmic shallow depth of field and (with the latest firmware) nice control over the exposure settings and so on. You can find the framerate and f-stop to suit the shot really nicely.
It'll do 12min takes if needed, the MOV encoding seems pretty good quality, we have used them for chromakey footage and they are almost as nice as the 100mbit HVX200 HD format for keeping good green info.
You get full 1080p too, with square pixels, so nice sharp footage with lots of info (no stretched pixels)
They really are fantastic imho.
I've been tempted to sell up my Nikon bits, and throw in another £1000 or so to get one.
All depends if you want to tinker with film I suppose. It certainly is a 'side' feature that has been featured well, especially with the new firmware giving you proper 'manual' mode, as it were (before it was kinda automatic in some areas, stopping down way too early unless you did an AE lock, rather than changing the shutter speed)
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 28th August 16:00
The D700s can't be too far away, and the D300s will do 720p.
And I'm saying this as a Canon shooter
I can't get my head around video on shoots, but then I've never really explored it. I know I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of editing full HD film, even my bruiser of a PC at home would struggle.
And I'm saying this as a Canon shooter
I can't get my head around video on shoots, but then I've never really explored it. I know I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of editing full HD film, even my bruiser of a PC at home would struggle.
Check this site out and look at some of the short films made using this kit. Impressive..
http://www.cinema5d.com/index.php
http://www.cinema5d.com/index.php
You'll need an external microphone and it only does 30 frames a sec, which seems to p
s off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.
I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
s off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
You're talking like only Canon offers HD video on their (traditionally) still cameras.
(as jon said - Nikon D300S)
Although I was speaking to a long time stills photog today and he says he just can't get into movies!
The likes of the HD Canon have been used for a few promo and music videos recently and with the advent of these very large sensors, we will see a convergence between the two types of camera I'm sure.
In my opinion, and looking at the RED sensors, it would make more sense to get one of their modular bodies and then equip it with either movie or stills accessories, rather than take a traditional digi-SLR and use it for making movies.
(as jon said - Nikon D300S)
Although I was speaking to a long time stills photog today and he says he just can't get into movies!
The likes of the HD Canon have been used for a few promo and music videos recently and with the advent of these very large sensors, we will see a convergence between the two types of camera I'm sure.
In my opinion, and looking at the RED sensors, it would make more sense to get one of their modular bodies and then equip it with either movie or stills accessories, rather than take a traditional digi-SLR and use it for making movies.
Edited by fastfreddy on Friday 28th August 19:19
fastfreddy said:
You're talking like only Canon offers HD video on their (traditionally) still cameras.
(as jon said - Nikon D300S)
Although I was speaking to a long time stills photog today and he says he just can't get into movies!
The likes of the HD Canon have been used for a few promo and music videos recently and with the advent of these very large sensors, we will see a convergence between the two types of camera I'm sure.
In my opinion, and looking at the RED sensors, it would make more sense to get one of their modular bodies and then equip it with either movie or stills accessories, rather than take a traditional digi-SLR and use it for making movies.
RED cameras are not cheap though, and the lenses are on another plane wrt price!(as jon said - Nikon D300S)
Although I was speaking to a long time stills photog today and he says he just can't get into movies!
The likes of the HD Canon have been used for a few promo and music videos recently and with the advent of these very large sensors, we will see a convergence between the two types of camera I'm sure.
In my opinion, and looking at the RED sensors, it would make more sense to get one of their modular bodies and then equip it with either movie or stills accessories, rather than take a traditional digi-SLR and use it for making movies.
Edited by fastfreddy on Friday 28th August 19:19
Fantastic kit though, but a different league to a 5D and a nice L-series lens combo.
V8S said:
You'll need an external microphone and it only does 30 frames a sec, which seems to ps off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.
I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
I'm not sure how the drop-down might work from 30 > 25fps, or whatever it shoots internally, but I guess it can be achieved in software (ie, it's just firmware changes)s off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
I will agree though, it does hurt the film quality a little... that said, modern TV's these days seem to love smoothing out that 25fps for you (looks well naff imho, but some love it
)Microphone isn't a biggie. I wouldn't want a 5D to be lumbered with a big mic just so it could do film a bit better
Even a decent video cam mic is far from great... if you want good audio you will always buy a decent mic for whatever cam you use, not the one it comes with (imho)
Yeah, it needs to be steadied, but so does any smaller camera held by hand. There are plenty of handy rigs you can make up to steady it out.
Your last point is one that does get me. That is ALOT of pixels, and with a small display and possibly using lenses with 1.8 f-stops, your DOF might be very shallow, so to keep it in focus nicely is hard work (or just total guess work)
If you were a bit more serious, a monitor running the HDMI out will let you watch a, iirc, 720p stream though, which gets you a bit more detail to work from.
Far from brilliant, but for the money imho, it is a bargain considering it does the SLR job very well, and then does the HD video very well too, and all in a little package. It even runs for ages on the battery.
Dave
V8S said:
You'll need an external microphone and it only does 30 frames a sec, which seems to ps off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.
I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
The Panasonic GH1 seems to solve a lot of the problems with the 5D II. As a compromise, lightweight general purpose stills and HD video outfit it looks like it is much more usable than the Canon - largely because of the huge swivelling LCD panel on the back that can be angled and so make focusing and viewing while filming much easier.s off a number of cinematographers. I don't know enough about it to know if it's a big deal.I've shot a few videos of car meets with it, and ideally you need it on a tripod or steadycam rig for smooth shooting.
And one thing I don't like is that fact you can't film while looking through the viewfinder, making focussing rather difficult with moving subjects I find.
Example of results here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnck4Elm1hM&fea...
Only £1200 too ..
That does look fairly good, I just hope alot of those features are switchable/lockable.
The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
That does look fairly good, I just hope alot of those features are switchable/lockable.
The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
Researching the subject on tinternet, I am attracted to the idea that you can get adaptors on ebay that enable you to attach practically any prime fast lens to the Panasonic. Pick up a cheap fast prime like an old Canon FD or Nikon A1 ( even a M39 screw thread ) and you can pop it on the Panny and shoot video. Manual focus and fixed manual control of the aperture, but that seems perfect..The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
I am liking the idea of this. And at half the price of the Canon it is tempting as an informal toy to hang out and spool around with. And it is small, so using it you would'nt shout out to the world that you are filming !
toppstuff said:
Mr Whippy said:
That does look fairly good, I just hope alot of those features are switchable/lockable.
The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
Researching the subject on tinternet, I am attracted to the idea that you can get adaptors on ebay that enable you to attach practically any prime fast lens to the Panasonic. Pick up a cheap fast prime like an old Canon FD or Nikon A1 ( even a M39 screw thread ) and you can pop it on the Panny and shoot video. Manual focus and fixed manual control of the aperture, but that seems perfect..The 5D II suffered from a lack of control until the updates to the firmware, ie, locking shutter or aperture or both etc...
The auto focus looks nice, but I guess that is only on the kit lens where it is very quiet!? It only goes down to F4 so focussing is never going to be as essential or difficult as it is on a 1.8 lens say.
Different stuff for different needs I guess
Can't beat having a proper video camera it's just the resource that has to go with them... ie, lenses maybe, batteries/power, tapes or whatever media they use etc...
Dave
I am liking the idea of this. And at half the price of the Canon it is tempting as an informal toy to hang out and spool around with. And it is small, so using it you would'nt shout out to the world that you are filming !
I think this generation of cameras will always be a bit of a compromise, but it'll be the next-gen stuff in the D90/400D kinda territory that might be interesting
I'm still dreaming of the day of 50fps with about 10 stops of light data right through the focal range and f-stop depth
OK, file size might be a tad large, but imagine the potential afterwards... choose your exposure, f-stop, focal point and everything in post
I rekon it'll come with sensitive enough sensors
Dave
Possibly useful comparison high-def video here - http://vimeo.com/5981422?hd=1
The small size of the GH1 can lead to aerial shooting possibilities - http://vimeo.com/6000621
Pete
The small size of the GH1 can lead to aerial shooting possibilities - http://vimeo.com/6000621
Pete
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos...
Oooo
"EOS Movie
The EOS 7D features an improved movie function allowing users to record Full HD movies with full manual control and selectable frame rates. The operation of the movie function has been improved to make it easier to use via direct access to settings with dedicated buttons. AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before.
The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."
Oooo
"EOS Movie
The EOS 7D features an improved movie function allowing users to record Full HD movies with full manual control and selectable frame rates. The operation of the movie function has been improved to make it easier to use via direct access to settings with dedicated buttons. AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before.
The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."
Mr Whippy said:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos...
Oooo
"EOS Movie
The EOS 7D features an improved movie function allowing users to record Full HD movies with full manual control and selectable frame rates. The operation of the movie function has been improved to make it easier to use via direct access to settings with dedicated buttons. AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before.
The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."
Very interesting ! It does not have a swivelling LCD panel however and being so chunky it may not be the easiest thing to use.. Would be very hard to shoot from the hip or lower down in video. Probably v good picture quality though.Oooo
"EOS Movie
The EOS 7D features an improved movie function allowing users to record Full HD movies with full manual control and selectable frame rates. The operation of the movie function has been improved to make it easier to use via direct access to settings with dedicated buttons. AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before.
The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."
Hmmm, yeah, but as soon as the LCD screen is more than say 1ft away, it's kinda too small to be useful anyway.
I guess the best bet is a HDMI screen linked into it that you can monitor. Just adding more and more kit then though.
No ideal setup except maybe a removable eye-piece that you can wear on your head and run a wire to the camera
Dave
I guess the best bet is a HDMI screen linked into it that you can monitor. Just adding more and more kit then though.
No ideal setup except maybe a removable eye-piece that you can wear on your head and run a wire to the camera
Dave
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