Large base for garden cabin
Discussion
We are fortunate enough to have quite a big garden and am planning an uber man-cabin/office for the bottom of it - and a projector and a big stereo - but haven't told the wife about that yet 
it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well made
Planning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well madePlanning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
Edited by SaTTaN on Sunday 30th August 18:51
SaTTaN said:
We are fortunate enough to have quite a big garden and am planning an uber man-cabin/office for the bottom of it - and a projector and a big stereo - but haven't told the wife about that yet it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well made
Planning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
Can't speak for the construction of the base until I've done a bit more research (thinking of doing something similar), however I would say you need to watch what you are doing regarding heating. Though exempt for planning permission (assuming it meets with permitted development - always best to get confirmation in writing from the council), it may need building regs approval unless it meets all the requirements of Part L. It should be fine, but the rules specifically exclude any building that "uses energy to condition the external climate". I don't know what this consists of (I assume some kind of permenant fixture), but if it isn't exempt, then there ain't no way a log cabin will meet the regs for insulation, let alone everything else. Talk to the cabin company... it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well madePlanning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
Edited by SaTTaN on Sunday 30th August 18:51
Oops, forgot the link:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...
Edited by VxDuncan on Sunday 30th August 19:04
I'm thinking of doing something similar and was quoted £500 by the company selling the cabin for a fully slabbed base on which to put a 3m x 3m structure. According to a relative in the trade, this seemed fair. They reckon getting electricity to it would be about £275.
Edited by SwanJack on Sunday 30th August 19:33
Sounds very cheap for the additional concrete in my opinion.
I recently did a base myself for a concrete sectional garage.
Ground was pretty good to start with but I dug out about 9". Infilled with 4" of compacted type 1, blinded with sand, DPM over and 5" of concrete with mesh reinforcement. Garage size was about 30m2. I did all the work myself, materials came in at about £900 I think.
I recently did a base myself for a concrete sectional garage.
Ground was pretty good to start with but I dug out about 9". Infilled with 4" of compacted type 1, blinded with sand, DPM over and 5" of concrete with mesh reinforcement. Garage size was about 30m2. I did all the work myself, materials came in at about £900 I think.
Sounds very cheap for the additional concrete in my opinion.
I recently did a base myself for a concrete sectional garage.
Ground was pretty good to start with but I dug out about 9". Infilled with 4" of compacted type 1, blinded with sand, DPM over and 5" of concrete with mesh reinforcement. Garage size was about 30m2. I did all the work myself, materials came in at about £900 I think.
I recently did a base myself for a concrete sectional garage.
Ground was pretty good to start with but I dug out about 9". Infilled with 4" of compacted type 1, blinded with sand, DPM over and 5" of concrete with mesh reinforcement. Garage size was about 30m2. I did all the work myself, materials came in at about £900 I think.
Sounds way too cheap IMO.
To do the base properly, you need to go down to undisturbed soil.
See here for a good read for slad construction.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/concrete.htm
As for BR's as long as it is less than 30m2 internal floor area, more than 1m from any bounday it is exempt. ( height restictions also apply)
Also would say that the log cabin type buildings will be almost impossible to heat in the winter.
To do the base properly, you need to go down to undisturbed soil.
See here for a good read for slad construction.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/concrete.htm
As for BR's as long as it is less than 30m2 internal floor area, more than 1m from any bounday it is exempt. ( height restictions also apply)
Also would say that the log cabin type buildings will be almost impossible to heat in the winter.
Thanks for the link, will check it out in a bit more detail when I speak to them.
in terms of heating, I was concerned too but last winter (i.e just before the snow) we went to one of the show cabins, and it was amazingly warm, they have a couple of electric heaters on for a couple of hours to keep the chill off overnight, and use them to heat during the day whilst occoupied.
Admittedly it was the show cabin, but it was very impressive and I couldn't find any multi-kilowatt space heaters, just electric panels
part of the package we are looking at includes floor and roof insulation
The company are here if anyone is interested http://www.living-out.co.uk/
in terms of heating, I was concerned too but last winter (i.e just before the snow) we went to one of the show cabins, and it was amazingly warm, they have a couple of electric heaters on for a couple of hours to keep the chill off overnight, and use them to heat during the day whilst occoupied.
Admittedly it was the show cabin, but it was very impressive and I couldn't find any multi-kilowatt space heaters, just electric panels
part of the package we are looking at includes floor and roof insulation
The company are here if anyone is interested http://www.living-out.co.uk/
VxDuncan said:
SaTTaN said:
We are fortunate enough to have quite a big garden and am planning an uber man-cabin/office for the bottom of it - and a projector and a big stereo - but haven't told the wife about that yet it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well made
Planning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
Can't speak for the construction of the base until I've done a bit more research (thinking of doing something similar), however I would say you need to watch what you are doing regarding heating. Though exempt for planning permission (assuming it meets with permitted development - always best to get confirmation in writing from the council), it may need building regs approval unless it meets all the requirements of Part L. It should be fine, but the rules specifically exclude any building that "uses energy to condition the external climate". I don't know what this consists of (I assume some kind of permenant fixture), but if it isn't exempt, then there ain't no way a log cabin will meet the regs for insulation, let alone everything else. Talk to the cabin company... it's 5m x 5m, double glazed in 45mm logs and will have power etc. for heating - they seem very well madePlanning/etc. all seem to be fine, and it's not going to be visible from any neighbours house due to positioning/trees, but as we back onto a railway embankment we do get occasional problems with foxes digging underneath my sheds and causing havoc.
The cabin company quote standard base work (treated wooden frame with concrete corners) for about £700 fitted and the sales guy reckons it would only be an extra £100 to make this a totally concrete slab - thus fox proof etc.
Does this sound too good to be true? sounds v.cheap to me for 25sqm (or am I a numpty?)
going back next week to work out what spec they build to - depth etc, but I assume that's without any compacted hardcore base etc.
Does that sound too cheap? and what should I be looking for in terms of spec - I'm thinking it would need some kind of waterproof membrane - anything else?
the ground is mainly just soil (ex-compost heap/jungle) and isn't generally too damp etc, will it need some compacted hardcore in there to be stable?
Armoured power/data cable quotes are quite another story (and order of magnitude of cost however!)
it's in Bromley/Kent btw
Edited by SaTTaN on Sunday 30th August 18:51
Oops, forgot the link:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...
Edited by VxDuncan on Sunday 30th August 19:04
See also here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/hhg/house... and select the shed and ensure that you read the Planning and Building Control sections and further info.. Ideally if you are 25sqm then you need to ensure that it is, at least 1m from any boundary.. or built from non-combustible material..
and see here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en... for info. on outbuildings.
Most cabins are constructed to come in just under Planning and Building Regs.. Ask the supplier specifically if either are needed. If they say no, then get that in writing, but for only 25sqm it should be okay, unless you're in a Conservation Area or Greenbelt...
ETA : Of course saying that Building Control aren't interested is fine, but ideally you want it to be decent, otherwise it will move and compromise the building... Ideally you need to ensure that rainwater is taken away from the base as well..
Edited by eps on Tuesday 1st September 20:21
eps said:
Building Regs shouldn't apply, see here : http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf/uksi_20082362... Class E
This is relating to planning, not building regseps said:
See also here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/hhg/house... and select the shed and ensure that you read the Planning and Building Control sections and further info.. Ideally if you are 25sqm then you need to ensure that it is, at least 1m from any boundary.. or built from non-combustible material..
and see here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en... for info. on outbuildings.
These are only outline notes. My point in the post above is that the building will be subject to building regs under part L if it is heated, as per the OPs post:and see here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en... for info. on outbuildings.
planning portal said:
Broadly, the Part L requirements apply to buildings, or extensions of such buildings (except those of Class VII type (see above)), or the carrying out of any work to or in connection of any such building or extension where the building:
* is a roofed construction having walls; and
* uses energy to condition the indoor climate
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...* is a roofed construction having walls; and
* uses energy to condition the indoor climate
Though the OP has since clarified that he was thinking of space heaters, so probably not an use. If in had aircon it would be an issue though...
alex s said:
Also would say that the log cabin type buildings will be almost impossible to heat in the winter.
My parents have a log-cabin style house as a holiday home, and it is chuffing warm in the winter even with ambient exterior temps down to -20c! It is heated via electric heaters and is in no way insulated.
Edited by Merlot on Tuesday 1st September 21:48
VxDuncan said:
eps said:
Building Regs shouldn't apply, see here : http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf/uksi_20082362... Class E
This is relating to planning, not building regseps said:
See also here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/hhg/house... and select the shed and ensure that you read the Planning and Building Control sections and further info.. Ideally if you are 25sqm then you need to ensure that it is, at least 1m from any boundary.. or built from non-combustible material..
and see here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en... for info. on outbuildings.
These are only outline notes. My point in the post above is that the building will be subject to building regs under part L if it is heated, as per the OPs post:and see here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en... for info. on outbuildings.
planning portal said:
Broadly, the Part L requirements apply to buildings, or extensions of such buildings (except those of Class VII type (see above)), or the carrying out of any work to or in connection of any such building or extension where the building:
* is a roofed construction having walls; and
* uses energy to condition the indoor climate
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professio...* is a roofed construction having walls; and
* uses energy to condition the indoor climate
Though the OP has since clarified that he was thinking of space heaters, so probably not an use. If in had aircon it would be an issue though...
Merlot said:
alex s said:
Also would say that the log cabin type buildings will be almost impossible to heat in the winter.
My parents have a log-cabin style house as a holiday home, and it is chuffing warm in the winter even with ambient exterior temps down to -20c! It is heated via electric heaters and is in no way insulated.
Edited by Merlot on Tuesday 1st September 21:48
I have erected a few ot these type buildings, and compared to a timber frame with infill insulation/vapor barrier etc are IMO not as well insulated, more prone to drafts, and more expensive.
All looking good so far, site survey done - base works sound to be up to par, planning office ok, and have managed to find a local electrician to do the wiring etc. (60m cable run from house) for a reasonable price (well 1/2 the price some other co's quoted anyway )
Man-shed a go-go hehe
)Man-shed a go-go hehe
BigBen said:
alex s said:
Also would say that the log cabin type buildings will be almost impossible to heat in the winter.
Why do you see loads of log cabins in Scandanavia then, its freezing there ! (genuine question)Edited by Gaspode on Saturday 5th September 20:29
I'm still fine-tuning the electrics, but the quote is about £900 parts & labour at the moment to;
Split incoming mains, RCD protect
install SWA cable, 60m run from house to cabin - surface mounted on wall/fence
lights/double sockets (6 at present, still tbc)
Consumer unit in cabin
I would have liked to have buried the cable underground but there are some complications along the way due to existing shed/patio/plant areas and would mean digging pretty deep so would either be labour intensive read:expensive.
We are going to replace the whole length of garden fence/wall in a couple of years so will look to bury it at that time but live with surface mount for now (will be mostly hidden behind bushes anyway) and deal with it when wallet allows.
£900 quote was from a local guy, he's certified/covered/insured and reasonable so going with him and he will do all the building control notification/part P stuff
Most expensive quote for the same spec was £2.7k and the cabin company's contractor would do it for £1.9k but wanted to replace the house consumer unit at the same time (and wouldn't come and survey 1st or entertain the idea of splitting the feed unlike everyone else), so pays to shop around.
Cabin company quote I think £795 as standard for c.15m run, installation and consumer unit etc. if that helps (they have a price list on the website I posted earlier).
In terms of heating, the walls of the model we have opted for are 45mm and glass is double glazed, they do optional floor/roof insulation which we have opted for - think it's 25mm and tongue and groove flooring is laid over this - had a look at some of the installed ones and it's a proper job.
will see how the heating goes through winter with a couple of 2KW convection heaters and take it from there but not too worried.
Ordered now, so quite looking forward to it
Split incoming mains, RCD protect
install SWA cable, 60m run from house to cabin - surface mounted on wall/fence
lights/double sockets (6 at present, still tbc)
Consumer unit in cabin
I would have liked to have buried the cable underground but there are some complications along the way due to existing shed/patio/plant areas and would mean digging pretty deep so would either be labour intensive read:expensive.
We are going to replace the whole length of garden fence/wall in a couple of years so will look to bury it at that time but live with surface mount for now (will be mostly hidden behind bushes anyway) and deal with it when wallet allows.
£900 quote was from a local guy, he's certified/covered/insured and reasonable so going with him and he will do all the building control notification/part P stuff
Most expensive quote for the same spec was £2.7k and the cabin company's contractor would do it for £1.9k but wanted to replace the house consumer unit at the same time (and wouldn't come and survey 1st or entertain the idea of splitting the feed unlike everyone else), so pays to shop around.
Cabin company quote I think £795 as standard for c.15m run, installation and consumer unit etc. if that helps (they have a price list on the website I posted earlier).
In terms of heating, the walls of the model we have opted for are 45mm and glass is double glazed, they do optional floor/roof insulation which we have opted for - think it's 25mm and tongue and groove flooring is laid over this - had a look at some of the installed ones and it's a proper job.
will see how the heating goes through winter with a couple of 2KW convection heaters and take it from there but not too worried.
Ordered now, so quite looking forward to it
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