When will motorists learn? (sorry, rant content)

[a11y_m]

<rant>

I'm preaching to the converted (well, mostly - read on...) but when will motorists learn to give cyclists the smallest bit of room on a bike?

I had a "motorist" pass me with an inch (phyically) to spare on my commute this morning. He then turned into a parking lot ahead so I stopped for a "chat". Bloke claims to be a roadie cyclist and says I was being inconsiderate to cars because I was using this particular route on my commute, and that I was holding him up LOL. I wasn't aware Callendar Road in Falkirk was off-limits to bikes at 8.20am in the morning :.

Anyway, this bloke claims to be a roadie which is even more worrying because he should know better: black Ford Focus, SM08 BHP. I know from (too close) experience with a bus that the police aren't interested in these incidents unless you're hospitalized.

I honestly don't know how roadies cope with it, I could never be a road cyclist...

Sorry, rant over, as you were.
Ally

</rant>

[blueg33]

As a cyclist and a driver I agree with you.

However, why do road cyclists ride 3 a breast down country lanes? It makes it impossible for drivers to pass them. I had 3 lots of selfish cycling f****s do that to me yesterday on the lane to my village. When I finally managed to squeeze past the second lot fliped me the bird! I restrained my self from stopping and shoving their bicycle pumps where the sun doesnt shine!

Sorry I hijacked your thread. You reminded me of yesterdays cycling f*****s

Edited by blueg33 on Monday 31st August 09:51

[71notout]

Like anything in life, you'll get arses on both sides unfortunately.

[AyBee]

71notout said:

Like anything in life, you'll get arses on both sides unfortunately.

Not all car drivers are inconsiderate and won't give you any room, but then some cyclists ask for it by not getting out of the way to make life easier for the car when they get the chance or stay 2-a-breast just because 'they're allowed to', it works both ways!

[Gazzab]

It is a difficult one - when I am cycling I stay about a foot from the kerb so as to not encourage people to think I am way outta there way but have been clipped by wing mirrors ! Some drivers just dont care.
Then I have overtaken a cyclist before when in my Discovery 3 and I have received a hand gesture even though I gave him 4 or 5 foot of room. Just the big car I guess.
I hate cyclists riding 2 or 3 abreast and slowing down traffic esp on country lanes. Very selfish and just goes to show that lots of cyclists are pretty strange and selfish.
I also hate off road bikers who seem to think it is funny to go past me at full revs flicking up stones etc... Thanks guys.

[Parsnip]

The whole rising 2 abreast thing is selfish doesn't really sit with me. You should be giving a bike as much room as you give a car, so its a non issue. Added to the fact that it will be easier to pass a paceline of 10 riders 2 abreast than 10 riders strung out in a line.

[AyBee]

Parsnip said:

The whole rising 2 abreast thing is selfish doesn't really sit with me. You should be giving a bike as much room as you give a car, so its a non issue. Added to the fact that it will be easier to pass a paceline of 10 riders 2 abreast than 10 riders strung out in a line.

But sometimes on a country road there isn't enough room to get past comfortably with 2 cyclist riding 2-a-breast. Don't get me wrong, I'm a roadie and do a lot of cycling with a mate where we ride side by side, but if there is a car coming up behind on a narrow country road, I'll pull infront or behind my mate and let him get past, not stand my ground just to make a point and make his life more difficult!

[a11y_m]

AyBee said:

71notout said:

Like anything in life, you'll get arses on both sides unfortunately.

Not all car drivers are inconsiderate and won't give you any room, but then some cyclists ask for it by not getting out of the way to make life easier for the car when they get the chance or stay 2-a-breast just because 'they're allowed to', it works both ways!

I like to think I'm a good cyclist on the road: it's a fine balance between riding defensively and not riding along in the gutter, and not sitting too far out and be viewed as an idiot by motorists.

AyBee said:

Parsnip said:

The whole rising 2 abreast thing is selfish doesn't really sit with me. You should be giving a bike as much room as you give a car, so its a non issue. Added to the fact that it will be easier to pass a paceline of 10 riders 2 abreast than 10 riders strung out in a line.

But sometimes on a country road there isn't enough room to get past comfortably with 2 cyclist riding 2-a-breast. Don't get me wrong, I'm a roadie and do a lot of cycling with a mate where we ride side by side, but if there is a car coming up behind on a narrow country road, I'll pull infront or behind my mate and let him get past, not stand my ground just to make a point and make his life more difficult!

I agree, it depends on the situation. On a regular 2-lane road I see no reason not to ride 2-abreast because, as Parsnip says, cars should give a bike as much room as they do a car. But on a narrower road I'd do the same as AyBee says to help allow cars past. The last thing I want as I'm grinding up a hill is a few revving cars behind me!

[Gazzab]

Parsnip said:

The whole rising 2 abreast thing is selfish doesn't really sit with me. You should be giving a bike as much room as you give a car, so its a non issue. Added to the fact that it will be easier to pass a paceline of 10 riders 2 abreast than 10 riders strung out in a line.

I disagree. I dont expect cars to overtake me like I am in a car. 3 or 4 feet is fine. If this rule was applied then they would have to ban bikes in london!
2 abreast does make in more difficult to overtake the bikes safely.

[Parsnip]

Gazzab said:

Parsnip said:

The whole rising 2 abreast thing is selfish doesn't really sit with me. You should be giving a bike as much room as you give a car, so its a non issue. Added to the fact that it will be easier to pass a paceline of 10 riders 2 abreast than 10 riders strung out in a line.

I disagree. I dont expect cars to overtake me like I am in a car. 3 or 4 feet is fine. If this rule was applied then they would have to ban bikes in london!
2 abreast does make in more difficult to overtake the bikes safely.

In London, cars won't be going at NSL. Speak for yourself, but 3 feet when someone is doing 60mph feels a little close to me.

I also disagree with your last statement - It makes it more difficult to overtake, but does not affect the difficulty to overtake SAFELY - if there is no room to get past (i.e two abreast) a car is forced to wait until it can overtake safely - on training rides, we are usually in a group of 10-15 - riding in a 2 abreast paceline is the safest for us and easiest to pass for drivers.

I don't mean to come across as a lentilist hemp wearer, but when i'm on the bike, I care about my safety, not how long someone has to wait to get past me.

Edited to add - if there are two of us, we won't be two abreast - makes no sense from a cycling point of view, only really works in groups of 5 or more.

Edited by Parsnip on Monday 31st August 20:29

[gbbird]

I have found myself doing more road miles lately, and on the whole i find cars very considerate. However, there are always one or two who leave very little room when passing, and i really do wonder if they appreciate the effect this has on cyclists. As a previous poster says, i always try to keep as close to the kerb as is safely possible.

Furthermore, there have been several occasions when the passengers in passing cars deem fit to shout some at me and/or gesture when passing, or even pip their horn. Again, this can be quite alarming when not expecting it, and it really does wind me up that there are such a*******s out there on the roads still. What is their problem i wonder?

[mat205125]

blueg33 said:

As a cyclist and a driver I agree with you.

However, why do road cyclists ride 3 a breast down country lanes? It makes it impossible for drivers to pass them. I had 3 lots of selfish cycling f****s do that to me yesterday on the lane to my village. When I finally managed to squeeze past the second lot fliped me the bird! I restrained my self from stopping and shoving their bicycle pumps where the sun doesnt shine!

Sorry I hijacked your thread. You reminded me of yesterdays cycling f*****s

I ride on road, and off road, ride motorbikes and drive cars, and can see both sides of the fence.

I agree that it is not responsible for riding 3 a breast and deliberately holding up road users, however if you find it impossible to wait and find a safe overtaking opportunity then you must really struggle with tractors and milk floats, let alone commercial vehicles.

When I ride my road bike, I deliverately do not ride along the gutter, rather about 1m from the left hand side of the road.

a.) This encourages drives to make a proper overtake on me rather than just breathe in and pass regardless of what is coming the other way.

b.) This gives me an escape zone when someone without spacial awareness passes me.

c.) I can often be impossible to ride closer to the curb on coutry roads on a road bike due to the state of the edges of the road and drains etc.

Reacting with a flipped bird isn't the best retort to and overtake that was performed perfectly safely leaving plenty of space, without tailgating, horn blarring, or slicing the cyclists up. I wonder why he might have felt it was necessary?

Edited by mat205125 on Tuesday 1st September 09:38

[71notout]

Had a guy this morning, driving a dumper truck, sitting completely over to the LHS obstructing the cycle lane.

I had to mount the pavement momentarily to pass and gave him a cursory shake of the head as I passed.

Cue 30 seconds later when he passed me around 50 mph and barely 2-3 feet from me.

OK mate, you win - feckin idiot!

[Mr_C]

The roads are wild, so I ride on the pavement.

[Harry Flashman]

AyBee said:

71notout said:

Like anything in life, you'll get arses on both sides unfortunately.

Not all car drivers are inconsiderate and won't give you any room, but then some cyclists ask for it by not getting out of the way to make life easier for the car when they get the chance or stay 2-a-breast just because 'they're allowed to', it works both ways!

Actually, I believe the 3 abreat thing is a visibility thing - when on a country road, it gies the formation the width of a car so that they can be seen.

Once something comes up behind the formation, they should move to single file to let you through, though.

I would have stopped and had a word with them, personally, as a lot of this stuff is about educating people. If you can't help them understand what they're doing wrong, then how will they learn not to repeat mistakes?

[Conian]

flashman did a seach on '3 abreast' and ended up here
i hope you werent too disappointed old chap

[Harry Flashman]

Conian said:

flashman did a seach on '3 abreast' and ended up here
i hope you werent too disappointed old chap

Gutted. I like breasts.

[anonymous-user]

there areaoccassions where two abreast is better for the motorist as it reduces their time on the opposite side of the road albeit by a small margin. riding single file means they spend longer on the other sid eof the road obviously.

this however, require the cyclist to have a bit of common sense and recognise when it is appropriate and when it is not to ride 2 abreast.

3 abreast is the height of arrogance and they are probably sunday cyclists out for an "epic" ride of a mile or so to the nearest country pub. as my car has a few cycling stickers on it, i feel i can remind these people that they represent a lot of people and their actions can have wider, long term ramifications. normally they couldnt give a f**k so long as they arent affected or injured...

its a two way thing and one feeds off the other, a motorist sees a cyclist jump the red light and all cyclists are suddenly fair game.... a car passes a cyclist too close and all motorists are c**ks!

[a11y_m]

mat205125 said:

When I ride my road bike, I deliverately do not ride along the gutter, rather about 1m from the left hand side of the road.

a.) This encourages drives to make a proper overtake on me rather than just breathe in and pass regardless of what is coming the other way.

b.) This gives me an escape zone when someone without spacial awareness passes me.

Best advice and is what I follow. There's also a book called Cyclecraft by John Franklin, a good read for any cyclists who use the road.

[Conian]

Harry Flashman said:

Conian said:

flashman did a seach on '3 abreast' and ended up here
i hope you werent too disappointed old chap

Gutted. I like breasts.

i was saddened that it wasnt the lady from Total Recall as well