Avon and Somerset camera partnership - where now?

[dmsims]

I have contacted them to ask how many accidents were in excess of the speed limit. Not really sure how to respond any suggestions ? After a few exchanges they gave this answer:



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry for the delay in replying.

The exact figure for what percentage of accidents locally is due to
excessive speed is not known. This is where the data gets complicated and
why the DfT's STATS 19 report was so important.

To cut a long story short, when a police officer reports an accident he will
most often not report excessive speed as it would not be possible to know
this, in order to elucidate this one would need an accident investigator to
analyse the accidental evidence, this rarely occurs. Also other causation
factors will be lumped together and reported as the cause of an accident. So
many variables and anomalies are introduced that the purity of data becomes
lost, all we know for absolute certain is the number of accidents and the
severity of casualties. In comes the Traffic Research Laboratory (TRL ) and
their STATS 19 report. They researched and found from accident reports (i.e.
those that has speed as a contributory factor) is at 32%. It is widely
believed by traffic experts that the majority of this 32% is due to
excessive speed. Also due to the nature of under-reporting of speed in
accidents, the number of speed related accidents is significantly higher,
but scientifically this is an unquantifiable figure.

So before any camera is even considered to be installed at a sight, 3 main
factors are considered:

1. how many accidents were there and of what nature and severity over the
past three years? (the criteria is Four people Killed or Seriously Injured
(KSI) and eight Personal Injury Collisions (PIC) over a three year history
for Fixed Sites, 2 KSI and 4 PICs for Mobile sites).

2. What volume of traffic is exceeding the speed limit at this site? (this
is measured and recorded).

3. What is the road layout like? is a safety camera an effective option?
(engineering is always considered first).

You may or may not be aware that the only force area (Durham) that has not
installed safety cameras has had a 64% increase in the number of fatal road
accidents and the Transport secretary is currently calling him to answer why
this is. We have seen 15 fewer deaths on Avon and Somerset's roads over the
previous fiscal year, not to mention the number or serious and slight
casualties.

I hope what I have said makes sense.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>>> Edited by dmsims on Friday 2nd January 13:01

[gh0st]

And here is what they ment to say....

dmsims said:

I have contacted them to ask how many accidents were in excess of the speed limit. Not really sure how to respond any suggestions ? After a few exchanges they gave this answer: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the delay in replying. The exact figure for what percentage of accidents locally is due to excessive speed is not known. This is where the data gets complicated and why the DfT's STATS 19 report was so important. To cut a long story short, when a police officer reports an accident he will most often not report excessive speed as it would not be possible to know this, in order to elucidate this one would need an accident investigator to analyse the accidental evidence, this rarely occurs. Also other causation factors will be lumped together and reported as the cause of an accident. So many variables and anomalies are introduced that the purity of data becomes lost, all we know for absolute certain is the number of accidents and the severity of casualties. In comes the Traffic Research Laboratory (TRL ) and their STATS 19 report. They researched and found from accident reports (i.e. those that has speed as a contributory factor) is at 32%. It is widely believed by traffic experts that the majority of this 32% is due to excessive speed. Also due to the nature of under-reporting of speed in accidents, the number of speed related accidents is significantly higher, but scientifically this is an unquantifiable figure. So before any camera is even considered to be installed at a sight, 3 main factors are considered: 1. how many accidents were there and of what nature and severity over the past three years? (the criteria is Four people Killed or Seriously Injured (KSI) and eight Personal Injury Collisions (PIC) over a three year history for Fixed Sites, 2 KSI and 4 PICs for Mobile sites). 2. What volume of traffic is exceeding the speed limit at this site? (this is measured and recorded). 3. What is the road layout like? is a safety camera an effective option? (engineering is always considered first). We then ignore all this data and put a camera / Talivan where we want because there is very little that you, the public, can do about it. >>> Edited by dmsims on Friday 2nd January 13:01

[Flat in Fifth]

Here is what they meant to say in bold.

dmsims said:

snip snip 8< 8< To cut a long story short, when a police officer reports an accident he will most often not report excessive speed as it would not be possible to know this, in order to elucidate this one would need an accident investigator to analyse the accidental evidence, this rarely occurs, so we make up the statistics to suit the politicians. Thus other causation factors will be lumped together and reported as the cause of an accident. snip snip 8< 8< I hope what I have said makes sense to you because it's clear that it makes sod all sense to us. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Apache]

Isn't it wonderful how they can admit to fabricating stats to suit their agenda, which makes this comment

"You may or may not be aware that the only force area (Durham) that has not installed safety cameras has had a 64% increase in the number of fatal road accidents"

seem particularly purile and untrustworthy

[dmsims]

Pete could you point me to some real info on the Durham Stats

TIA

David

[Deadly Dog]

dmsims said:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the delay in replying. The exact figure for what percentage of accidents locally is due to excessive speed is not known. This is where the data gets complicated and why the DfT's STATS 19 report was so important etc etc zzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is utter waffle and bullshit. Preliminary analysis of Police crash data for Avon and Somerset in 2001 indicates that only 3% of accidents occurred in excess of the speed limit.

Hit the West Country scammers with some objective scientific evidence and watch them squirm

[dmsims]

Thanks for the link, also found the stats on Durham in the archive :], am writing a reply now.

Also does ne1 know why there is a camera on the A358 Taunton approach road ? (Dual carriageway, 50 mph, crash barrier)

[hedders]

dmsims said:

Also does ne1 know why there is a camera on the A358 Taunton approach road ? (Dual carriageway, 50 mph, crash barrier)

I think i know why it is there...don't you??

[chris1roll]

the camera is there because within two weeks of the junction opening four people were killed in an accident.
Long time ago now, i must have been about 10, my mother told me when i was complaining about same camera.

[dmsims]

There is a light camera on the junction and a few hundred yards further on there is a Gatso

Those deaths cannot count towards the "three year history"

How can I get the KSI data ?

[mondeoman]

dmsims said:

There is a light camera on the junction and a few hundred yards further on there is a Gatso Those deaths cannot count towards the "three year history" How can I get the KSI data ?

You can't its "with-held from general release for the purposes of state security" (and to protect our jobs and income stream of course )