Congestion Charging - An Open Letter to TfL/Capita
Discussion
Write in too if you feel like I do:
::letter begins::
Mr Richard Lack
XXXXXXXXXXXX Road
Tunbridge Wells
TN1 2XX
cc: Paul Pindar, Chief Executive, Capita
Peter Hendy, Director of Surface Transport, TfL
2nd January 2004
AUTOMATED PAYMENTS FROM DEBIT CARDS
Dear Sir/Madam,
I have canvassed support from very many people who regularly use the congestion zone. Our experience would be immeasurably easier if we had the option for our debit cards to be charged automatically whenever entering the zone. I understand that Capita currently offer the facility to buy a monthly ticket and then to claim a refund at the end of this period. Unfortunately, for those of us who are aware of it, this method is time consuming and expensive.
Many of us have paid out over £500 in fines since charging began. We accept that this is due to the fact that we occasionally forget to pay; but Capita should concede that it is precisely the absence of a method for automatic payment that results in normal people like ourselves being penalised unfairly and needlessly.
Given the technology currently being employed for payment by a variety of methods we are certain that a small change to the system will accommodate motorists who forget to pay by crosschecking a list of drivers who have previously authorised automatic payments against your daily list of outstanding unpaid vehicle registrations.
On a more cynical note I am prepared to contemplate that it serves Capita very well indeed if they fail to act on this straightforward matter. The revenues generated in fines are considerable, and largely dependent on drivers like us forgetting to pay.
We are all mindful that congestion charging is a public service and should be operated as such. It is not in the public service to be collecting fines where you could otherwise be collecting the lesser amount of the congestion charge by prior consent of the motorist.
The cause of the motorist has become a popular one with most of the national papers in recent years. Witness for instance the climb-down on ‘safety’ cameras and speed humps. We believe that most of the revenue which Capita receives is from fines and that the vast majority of those fines are from plain forgetful drivers. A workable suggestion has now been made for you to provide us with a better service. Unless you are able to offer an adequate justification for failing to rectify the situation within 14 days I will campaign in the national press for our proposal to be put into place; with all of the research into contractual agreements and adverse publicity and that this may confer.
Yours sincerely
Richard Lack
::letter begins::
Mr Richard Lack
XXXXXXXXXXXX Road
Tunbridge Wells
TN1 2XX
cc: Paul Pindar, Chief Executive, Capita
Peter Hendy, Director of Surface Transport, TfL
2nd January 2004
AUTOMATED PAYMENTS FROM DEBIT CARDS
Dear Sir/Madam,
I have canvassed support from very many people who regularly use the congestion zone. Our experience would be immeasurably easier if we had the option for our debit cards to be charged automatically whenever entering the zone. I understand that Capita currently offer the facility to buy a monthly ticket and then to claim a refund at the end of this period. Unfortunately, for those of us who are aware of it, this method is time consuming and expensive.
Many of us have paid out over £500 in fines since charging began. We accept that this is due to the fact that we occasionally forget to pay; but Capita should concede that it is precisely the absence of a method for automatic payment that results in normal people like ourselves being penalised unfairly and needlessly.
Given the technology currently being employed for payment by a variety of methods we are certain that a small change to the system will accommodate motorists who forget to pay by crosschecking a list of drivers who have previously authorised automatic payments against your daily list of outstanding unpaid vehicle registrations.
On a more cynical note I am prepared to contemplate that it serves Capita very well indeed if they fail to act on this straightforward matter. The revenues generated in fines are considerable, and largely dependent on drivers like us forgetting to pay.
We are all mindful that congestion charging is a public service and should be operated as such. It is not in the public service to be collecting fines where you could otherwise be collecting the lesser amount of the congestion charge by prior consent of the motorist.
The cause of the motorist has become a popular one with most of the national papers in recent years. Witness for instance the climb-down on ‘safety’ cameras and speed humps. We believe that most of the revenue which Capita receives is from fines and that the vast majority of those fines are from plain forgetful drivers. A workable suggestion has now been made for you to provide us with a better service. Unless you are able to offer an adequate justification for failing to rectify the situation within 14 days I will campaign in the national press for our proposal to be put into place; with all of the research into contractual agreements and adverse publicity and that this may confer.
Yours sincerely
Richard Lack
I didnt think that Capita got the revenue - they are contracted to run the service (mainly IT) for TfL but dont take a percentage of the revenue gained. If they do a good job then they keep the contract, but other than that its not in their interest....
I could be wrong of course.
Oh, and if anyone wishes to exact revenge on the CC - I know where the data centre is
I could be wrong of course.
Oh, and if anyone wishes to exact revenge on the CC - I know where the data centre is
misternomer said:
Our experience would be immeasurably easier if we had the option for our debit cards to be charged automatically whenever entering the zone.
I'd be surprised if any bank would allow for this kind of thing to happen, as you're essentially giving someone consent to charge your card whenever they think applicable...and also when someone rings your number plate things will get more complicated as the money will go from your bank account *before* you get to contest it...
Rob.
skoda_rob said:
Our experience would be immeasurably easier if we had the option for our debit cards to be charged automatically whenever entering the zone.
I'd be surprised if any bank would allow for this kind of thing to happen, as you're essentially giving someone consent to charge your card whenever they think applicable...and also when someone rings your number plate things will get more complicated as the money will go from your bank account *before* you get to contest it...
Rob.
Not if it was set up as a monthly DD, with that month's CC charges being taken in one go. No different to your phone bill which can be varying amounts from one month to the next...
wiggy001 said:
Not if it was set up as a monthly DD, with that month's CC charges being taken in one go. No different to your phone bill which can be varying amounts from one month to the next...
I suppose...though that is a direct debit out of your bank account, rather than a payment on a debit card.
Rob.
There is a setup called "continuous authorisation" where you give the merchant permission to debit your account whenever agreed, but I would imagine a direct debit system with a monthly statement would be much more workable.
Personally, I think it's extremely unfair that drivers don't have a longer period to arrange payment - there is no reason why they can't be given until the close of business the following day to pay the £5 fee and *then* increase it. I imagine a lot of people have a busy day and then only realise that they forgot to pay the CC when they are relaxing the following day.
Gareth
Personally, I think it's extremely unfair that drivers don't have a longer period to arrange payment - there is no reason why they can't be given until the close of business the following day to pay the £5 fee and *then* increase it. I imagine a lot of people have a busy day and then only realise that they forgot to pay the CC when they are relaxing the following day.
Gareth
I agree absolutely. It is an outrage that each time (on average once every six weeks) I forget to pay the charge I end up with a £40 bill. I am a registered fast track payer and I pay the charge frequently, so it is hardly likely that I am trying to scam them by not payin one time in twenty, is it?
I reckon that tehy will not change this, because it adds a nice extra amount into the coffers if every registered driver forgets a few times per year.
I reckon that tehy will not change this, because it adds a nice extra amount into the coffers if every registered driver forgets a few times per year.
Zod,
I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I'm not lazy, particularly forgetful or intent on scamming (I've leave that to Ken). I just get busy some days and forget to pay. Normally when I'm busy on the carphone or when my schedule changes.
To address the point on bank authorisation - it's none of the banks business who takes moneyh out of my account provided it's authorised. I use Continuous Authorisation to pay my mobile and several other bills. It makes a lot more sense because if there isn't money in the account (i.e. the wife's been shopping), you don't get a bounced Direct Debit and a £30 charge on your statement. Instead the merchant just gets a decline response and contacts you to arrange alternative payment (sell the wife's body?).
Finally - Capita DO take a cut of all transactions and make disproportionately more on fines than they do on the charge itself. So to make enough money to turn a profit they have to make sure that enough people get fined. Totally Crooked.
As an aside. How many of you know that Capita are paid £3mm a month out of taxes for the next 18 months REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS. If they lose the contract they still get paid. You drove a hard bargain Ken!
I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I'm not lazy, particularly forgetful or intent on scamming (I've leave that to Ken). I just get busy some days and forget to pay. Normally when I'm busy on the carphone or when my schedule changes.
To address the point on bank authorisation - it's none of the banks business who takes moneyh out of my account provided it's authorised. I use Continuous Authorisation to pay my mobile and several other bills. It makes a lot more sense because if there isn't money in the account (i.e. the wife's been shopping), you don't get a bounced Direct Debit and a £30 charge on your statement. Instead the merchant just gets a decline response and contacts you to arrange alternative payment (sell the wife's body?).
Finally - Capita DO take a cut of all transactions and make disproportionately more on fines than they do on the charge itself. So to make enough money to turn a profit they have to make sure that enough people get fined. Totally Crooked.
As an aside. How many of you know that Capita are paid £3mm a month out of taxes for the next 18 months REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS. If they lose the contract they still get paid. You drove a hard bargain Ken!
I don't think that all those cameras work either. I have forgotton to pay it twice and never got a fine. So that might be a reason why they would want you to declare that you were in the zone rather than them tell you that you were.
Now if we had a list of the cameras that didn't work ...
Now if we had a list of the cameras that didn't work ...
IMHO Ken is a communist. He rips of law obiding citizens. I have forgotten to pay the charge now and again and i cant see why if you go into it regularly why cant it just be deducted. On another point what other options has that fat T
T got to charge us, communist CT Give me an alternative and i might just go with it. I hate being screwed by an unforgiving undemocratic government. But hey we did vote for the arse(holes) did we not? Hey i certainly did not. why are we english so laid back and take these rip off charges so easily?
>> Edited by rviant on Sunday 4th January 02:07
>> Edited by rviant on Sunday 4th January 02:08
T got to charge us, communist CT Give me an alternative and i might just go with it. I hate being screwed by an unforgiving undemocratic government. But hey we did vote for the arse(holes) did we not? Hey i certainly did not. why are we english so laid back and take these rip off charges so easily? >> Edited by rviant on Sunday 4th January 02:07
>> Edited by rviant on Sunday 4th January 02:08
Totally agree, I work alot of night shifts in a company just off Tot Court Road, and after a 12 hour night shift at 07:30 in the morning paying the congestion charge for that day can pretty easily slip my mind. Infact as I'm heading out of London at that time I shouldn't have to pay it at all, but thats another thread!
I think I must have racked up at least £800 in fines last year.
Another bone to pick is that, how do we know we didn't pass into the zone a minute before the charging starts? Or maybe my watch is 10 mins slow and I think I crossed the zone and parked up before 07:00. There should at least be a way of checking instead of working on the "fear" basis.
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Sunday 4th January 11:22
I think I must have racked up at least £800 in fines last year.
Another bone to pick is that, how do we know we didn't pass into the zone a minute before the charging starts? Or maybe my watch is 10 mins slow and I think I crossed the zone and parked up before 07:00. There should at least be a way of checking instead of working on the "fear" basis.
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Sunday 4th January 11:22
[quote=dannyboyo]
Another bone to pick is that, how do we know we didn't pass into the zone a minute before the charging starts? Or maybe my watch is 10 mins slow and I think I crossed the zone and parked up before 07:00. There should at least be a way of checking instead of working on the "fear" basis.
That's exactly how they want it. they can make more money that way rather than telling you after that you have to pay (Unless it's by way of a fine)
Another bone to pick is that, how do we know we didn't pass into the zone a minute before the charging starts? Or maybe my watch is 10 mins slow and I think I crossed the zone and parked up before 07:00. There should at least be a way of checking instead of working on the "fear" basis.
That's exactly how they want it. they can make more money that way rather than telling you after that you have to pay (Unless it's by way of a fine)
If everyone had the balls to tell to shove it they would give up trying to colect it in no time.
I hate the britsh public there such pussys.
when ask to bend over they do.
The only thing the do is ask for some lube so it slips in easyer.
>> Edited by Roadrage on Sunday 4th January 12:44
>> Edited by Roadrage on Sunday 4th January 12:45
I hate the
britsh public there such pussys. when ask to bend over they do.
The only thing the do is ask for some lube so it slips in easyer.
>> Edited by Roadrage on Sunday 4th January 12:44
>> Edited by Roadrage on Sunday 4th January 12:45
how come so many of you are PAYING to go to work??????
i would seriously think about moving if I were you!
I would NEVER pay to get to work I would sooner go on the dole and be a benefit sponger!!!!!!!!!!!
we in this country already pay more tax than anywhere else in the world so why pay even more???
and everone seems to forget the extra tax generated by the lottery too, say 2 new Millionaires a week shall we, think of all that extra tax as well!!!!!
this country is loaded!!!!!!!!!!, but where is it all going?, in the Govs back pocket thats where!
I have spoken with relatives in Australia and the USA and they just dont know how we manage on such a small income!, eh???????????????????, we are an oil rich country, no?
so where is it all going then?????????
about time the British Gov came clean dont you think?
i would seriously think about moving if I were you!
I would NEVER pay to get to work I would sooner go on the dole and be a benefit sponger!!!!!!!!!!!
we in this country already pay more tax than anywhere else in the world so why pay even more???
and everone seems to forget the extra tax generated by the lottery too, say 2 new Millionaires a week shall we, think of all that extra tax as well!!!!!
this country is loaded!!!!!!!!!!, but where is it all going?, in the Govs back pocket thats where!
I have spoken with relatives in Australia and the USA and they just dont know how we manage on such a small income!, eh???????????????????, we are an oil rich country, no?
so where is it all going then?????????
about time the British Gov came clean dont you think?
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