Anybody watch Traffic-Cops last night?
Discussion
I thought they said he fell out of the car (no seat belt?) and the car rolled over him 
I was quite supprised the cops didn't think that maybe it wasn't the owner driving just because they found a cheque book in the car. Especially given the passenger ran off, and allegedly tried to pull the driver out of the car.

I was quite supprised the cops didn't think that maybe it wasn't the owner driving just because they found a cheque book in the car. Especially given the passenger ran off, and allegedly tried to pull the driver out of the car.
Edited by Mr_Yogi on Wednesday 2nd September 09:42
He cant have been wearing a seatbelt, there wasnt that much damage to the car - seems he half went out of the window and then the car rolled on top of him. Must have been very bad injuries though, when they wer going through his jeans they were covered in blood.
Sadly it often happens this way - http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4569997...
Sadly it often happens this way - http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4569997...
2 things:
1 - The penalty in law for stealing a car is not death. So I'm not sure I agree he 'deserved' it or that 'justice was served' because the he got more than the penalty in law. However if he hadn't stolen the car in the first place then it wouldn't have happened. It was also, clearly, his own fault. But him crashing and dieing being 'his fault' is not the same as 'justice'.
I hate TWOCers as much as anyone on here, but the penalty is not death so this wasn't justice IMO.
2 - They later ID'd the driver by finding his prison card in the jacket that the paramedics took off him... so how did they manage to take so long (and bark up the wrong tree ID wise) without going through his clothes/jacket looking for id?
1 - The penalty in law for stealing a car is not death. So I'm not sure I agree he 'deserved' it or that 'justice was served' because the he got more than the penalty in law. However if he hadn't stolen the car in the first place then it wouldn't have happened. It was also, clearly, his own fault. But him crashing and dieing being 'his fault' is not the same as 'justice'.
I hate TWOCers as much as anyone on here, but the penalty is not death so this wasn't justice IMO.
2 - They later ID'd the driver by finding his prison card in the jacket that the paramedics took off him... so how did they manage to take so long (and bark up the wrong tree ID wise) without going through his clothes/jacket looking for id?
mrmr96 said:
2 - They later ID'd the driver by finding his prison card in the jacket that the paramedics took off him... so how did they manage to take so long (and bark up the wrong tree ID wise) without going through his clothes/jacket looking for id?
I was absolutely astonished by that. To me it seemed obvious that the car was stolen - the guy not wearing a seatbelt (although they didn't at any time say that, which I thought was weird) and the passenger doing a runner.I was also dismayed by the time they spent on the investigation - the road was shut for many hours and they developed a computer simulation of the accident. Surely it was obvious - scroat stole car and drove too fast while not wearing seatbelt?
Edited by Deva Link on Wednesday 2nd September 09:59
my brother and i were watching this last night, was well impressed with the reconstruction software and tools they used, however did seem like a bit of a waste of time to recreate pictures etc of it?
They were saying he was hanging over the door when the found him, so perhaps when the car rolled over it broke his back or something along those lines. He'd been out of prison for two days....i wouldn't say it's just but i am a fan of the saying what goes around comes around.
They were saying he was hanging over the door when the found him, so perhaps when the car rolled over it broke his back or something along those lines. He'd been out of prison for two days....i wouldn't say it's just but i am a fan of the saying what goes around comes around.
EP2Nick said:
Was a little shocked though that he died at a 40mph impact though, thought the S3 would have stood up to it to be honest
The car looked only superficially damaged - it was structurally completely intact. They said the car rolled over on the guy while he was hanging out of the window so can only presume that he wasn't wearing a belt. It seemed very odd that they didn't even mention that in the programme.Edited by Deva Link on Wednesday 2nd September 10:11
I totally agree that in many respects he brought this on himself. Sad for his family.
Thing is though, other than a life of crime, with his criminal record (his fault) what was he ever going to do with his life?
Seems to me that once in this life style theres no scope for leaving it.
Does the Army accept recruits with criminal records these days?
Thing is though, other than a life of crime, with his criminal record (his fault) what was he ever going to do with his life?
Seems to me that once in this life style theres no scope for leaving it.
Does the Army accept recruits with criminal records these days?
EP2Nick said:
Deva, as for the time the road was closed, had there not been a fatality, they had to work it out themselves with no witness input (bar the two girls). It was not obvious it was 'stolen', they had to figure out who was at fault, could have been oil spillage, debris, faulty brakes etc etc. The crime needs to remain in tact for investigation.
Funny it wasn't obvious to Bib that the car was stolen - passenger fleeing on his own would be enough to make you very suspicious and the guy not wearing a seatbelt in such a car only adds to it. Going on ID found loose in the car and the RK's name just seems light-weight in the extreme.OK, appreciate that there could possibly have been external causes and perhaps we differ here. He stole the car, didn't wear the seatbelt, drove fast and ran out of talent. Tough luck.
Deva Link said:
EP2Nick said:
Deva, as for the time the road was closed, had there not been a fatality, they had to work it out themselves with no witness input (bar the two girls). It was not obvious it was 'stolen', they had to figure out who was at fault, could have been oil spillage, debris, faulty brakes etc etc. The crime needs to remain in tact for investigation.
Funny it wasn't obvious to Bib that the car was stolen - passenger fleeing on his own would be enough to make you very suspicious and the guy not wearing a seatbelt in such a car only adds to it. Going on ID found loose in the car and the RK's name just seems light-weight in the extreme.OK, appreciate that there could possibly have been external causes and perhaps we differ here. He stole the car, didn't wear the seatbelt, drove fast and ran out of talent. Tough luck.
They were lucky the owner wasn't out and they then broke the wrong news to his missus or something. "Did you used to be married to a guy with an Audi S2 love?"
EP2Nick said:
I was very surprised that they didn't check the pockets first, seems like an obvious starting point really, the officer actually went to the supposedly deceased home before finding out he was alive, crazy!
Though it's easy to make assumptions, they found a cheque book and ID card, which matched the registered owner, that would be enough for me to make a decision to be fair.
I assumed the passenger was in complete shock having seen his friend die in front of him and just ran away, God knows how I would react in such situation (had I not helped steal a car blahblah).
Passenger got 22 months after too.Though it's easy to make assumptions, they found a cheque book and ID card, which matched the registered owner, that would be enough for me to make a decision to be fair.
I assumed the passenger was in complete shock having seen his friend die in front of him and just ran away, God knows how I would react in such situation (had I not helped steal a car blahblah).
EP2Nick said:
I do recall them saying he was 'hanging out the window' so it's very likely that he indeed was not wearing a seatbelt.
As I stated in the original post, stealing a car does not really deserve death, but having just come out of prison, stealing 2 cars, breaking into homes, speeding whilst drink driving, all at once, had it coming.
I'm sure someone would think differently should that have hit an innocent pedestrian.
Of course it would be different if he hit an innocent pedestrian.As I stated in the original post, stealing a car does not really deserve death, but having just come out of prison, stealing 2 cars, breaking into homes, speeding whilst drink driving, all at once, had it coming.
I'm sure someone would think differently should that have hit an innocent pedestrian.
EP2Nick said:
Let's say worst case scenario is that he killed a child (whilst speeding in a stolen car whilst drunk). Would 15 Years locked up be seen as 'justice'?
Well, that depends on a lot of things and isn't an argument that can be settled in this forum.However I don't mind saying that my personal opinion is that for stealing and crashing a car whilst drunk, death is not a suitable punishment. But it might be a suitable punishment for killing an innocent.
This was the second time I have seen this episode and it still shocked me. Nobody deserves to die for crimes such as his, but he took a risk and paid the price. Whilst I don't have any sympathy for him, I do for his family for the grief it will cause them.
I also feel sorry for the guy with the knicked S3, premiums up and P&J ruined by some thieving scrote.
On a similarly shocking note, the bird in the battered Rover 200 had more front than Southend Pier. Just shows how pathetic law enforcement is in this country (what I perceive it to be, I know there are plenty of good BiB's but I am yet to encounter one). The grey copper was more interested in driving his old motor home than preventing further crime.
And the smug copper that said he wasn't going to chase the Mondeo through the woods. "He's in a £400 Mondeo, I've got a £40k beemer". No, you DRIVE a £40k beemer for work. You should have known what they were going to do and tried to cut them off elsewhere.
Good programme though, always love watching stuff that annoys me
I also feel sorry for the guy with the knicked S3, premiums up and P&J ruined by some thieving scrote.
On a similarly shocking note, the bird in the battered Rover 200 had more front than Southend Pier. Just shows how pathetic law enforcement is in this country (what I perceive it to be, I know there are plenty of good BiB's but I am yet to encounter one). The grey copper was more interested in driving his old motor home than preventing further crime.
And the smug copper that said he wasn't going to chase the Mondeo through the woods. "He's in a £400 Mondeo, I've got a £40k beemer". No, you DRIVE a £40k beemer for work. You should have known what they were going to do and tried to cut them off elsewhere.
Good programme though, always love watching stuff that annoys me

I agree that the punishment for TWOC isn't death - and neither should it ever be.
HOWEVER this guy was clearly a scrote of the highest order. Two days out of prison and has commited a burglary, stolen two cars and crashed one whilst twice the DD limit.
It was only a matter of time before he killed or seriously injured an innocent bystander so to be honest, I think that society is better off with him in the 6 feet in the ground - sad though it is for his family.
Hopefully it will give his "mates" something to think about before they do anything like it again. I doubt it though.
HOWEVER this guy was clearly a scrote of the highest order. Two days out of prison and has commited a burglary, stolen two cars and crashed one whilst twice the DD limit.
It was only a matter of time before he killed or seriously injured an innocent bystander so to be honest, I think that society is better off with him in the 6 feet in the ground - sad though it is for his family.
Hopefully it will give his "mates" something to think about before they do anything like it again. I doubt it though.
Marf said:
EP2Nick said:
As I stated in the original post, stealing a car does not really deserve death, but having just come out of prison, stealing 2 cars, breaking into homes, speeding whilst drink driving, all at once, had it coming.
Pretty much sums it up for me.Halb said:
Marf said:
EP2Nick said:
As I stated in the original post, stealing a car does not really deserve death, but having just come out of prison, stealing 2 cars, breaking into homes, speeding whilst drink driving, all at once, had it coming.
Pretty much sums it up for me.He's already been lucky to be treated to one of the most lenient criminal justice systems in the world; one which aims to rehabilitate as opposed to punish. You or I prefer this system because we believe that if we required rehabilitation, it would alter our behaviour for the better, and a we would make good with the second chance we were given. This is at a cost to the public, but in order to build a fairer society we accept it.
2 days out of prison, he's re-offending (maybe earlier, who knows what he did leading up to the incident). His mate had 18 convictions from 14 incidents. They should no longer have the privilege of living in our society, nor should he be treated fairly. They've had their opportunity to reform/ integrate into a society which the majority of inhabitants believe to be for the good of all. If he doesn't like it, go elsewhere.
We grant other people respect, courtesy and act within the law and expect the same to be done unto us. Proven repeated abuse should lead to a termination of rights, forever.
There is also the monetary cost of rehabilitaion, accident clean up, insurance increases etc. which we're all paying for.
2 days out of prison, he's re-offending (maybe earlier, who knows what he did leading up to the incident). His mate had 18 convictions from 14 incidents. They should no longer have the privilege of living in our society, nor should he be treated fairly. They've had their opportunity to reform/ integrate into a society which the majority of inhabitants believe to be for the good of all. If he doesn't like it, go elsewhere.
We grant other people respect, courtesy and act within the law and expect the same to be done unto us. Proven repeated abuse should lead to a termination of rights, forever.
There is also the monetary cost of rehabilitaion, accident clean up, insurance increases etc. which we're all paying for.
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