civic type r vs scooby wrx blob eye

[pitbull turbo]

i am thinking of a new car to replace my fiat coupe. it must be fast as about the same as the fiat ( 240 bhp) and they both are a little bit slower but make up with it in handling. what are the running cost like between the two? i get 30mpg out the fiat and would i get near this on a motorway cruise in either of these.
what are the reliablity like on either of these?
what are they like to get some more power out?

[Defcon5]

CTR will be rather expensive to get not a lot more power out of, and I would imagine it is noticably slower then the Scoob in pretty much every situation

[GravelBen]

pitbull turbo said:

what are the reliablity like on either of these?
what are they like to get some more power out?

Both reliable unless badly modified, the WRX has easily available well established upgrade paths, Civic not so much.

[sperminator]

Scoob all the way. CTR is a girls toy.

As for the scoob being noticeably slower than the Fiat etc etc etc. The one you drove must've been right royally fked.

Edited by sperminator on Wednesday 2nd September 11:00

[pitbull turbo]

not really a wrx has less power alot more weight and alot more transmisson loss than the fiat! ok launching the fiat is hard but once rolling i doubt a standard wrx would be anywhere near the fiat! standard 0-100 mph is 14.5 seconds and thats with 220 bhp mine has just over 240 bph!

i am more worried about the running costs of the scooby as i do anywhere bewteen 15-20k miles a year. what sort of upgrades can be done on the scooby as i used to run skylines and i was hoping i could get the same response from tuning a scooby as i did my skylines.

[_Batty_]

sperminator said:

Scoob all the way. CTR is a girls toy.

As for the scoob being noticeably slower than the Fiat etc etc etc. The one you drove must've been right royally fked.

Edited by sperminator on Wednesday 2nd September 11:00

a wrx blob eye has what 220-230bhp?
a Fiat coupe has 220+?
plus the Scooby has AWD tranny losses?
i think you'd need an Sti before you really noticed anymore power.

[pitbull turbo]

well i have over 240bhp transmisson loss on the fiats are very low even for fwd and the car is 1310kg.
its quick with out a problem but i fancy going back to jap but the reason i got rid of my r34 gtt was 17 mpg and expensive serive and repair costs

[ScoobieWRX]

The 20V Fiat Coupe was a mighty quick machine in it's day and is no slouch even by today's standards. It's a lovely looker too but doesn't compare to the scoob performance or handling wise. The Fiat is very front heavy too and prone to even more understeer than the WRX Scoob despite being 100Kg lighter.

The scoob is ugly as sin but it does exactly what it says on the tin. It's quicker both 0-60 and mid-range than the Fiat even though it has a fraction less horsepower and is 100Kg heavier, and top end is very similar to the Fiat, but handling wise it will wipe the floor with the Fiat. You won't see which way the scoob went down a B-road. With just a little bit of a remap and nothing more than a flat panel air filter and snorkus delete modification it will make similar bhp to a standard STi. Change the uppipe and exhaust and you're looking nearer 280+bhp.

No comparison even the though Fiat is much better looking. As for the Civic though.....

Here we go...

Edited to add: PS, If you're that worried about mpg FFS forget about the scoob and get yourself a decent oil burner.

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Wednesday 2nd September 17:51

[pitbull turbo]

sorry we are talking about a blolb eye WRX not sti and the fait is quite a bit faster midrange! once roller the scooby standands no chance, a sti is a different storry but it has lot more power!
i have only got my fiat to badly understeer once and its no where near as bad as people make out and with a few cheap tweaks can handle very well hence winning totb fwd handling 3 years in a row!

anyway my problem with the fiat is its getting long in the tooth and old and bit keep need doing so need a newer car.

[Animal]

Pittbull, I had an '03 CTR for a little over a year before chopping it in for a blobeye WRX.

The CTR had two things going for it: a great gear shift action and lots of revs. That's it. Not particularly quick unless you rag it to death and the interior/build quality was average (or maybe I just had a Friday afternoon car!)

Coming from your Fiat the CTR will feel like a Jack Russell: lots of energy and get up and go, but without a great deal of real ability. In terms of tuning £1,200 will get you about 220bhp.

By comparison, a WRX with £1,500 worth of engine work (if you're paying someone else to do it) will get you around 275 reliable BHP and similar torque. Factor a few quid more for some cheap handling tweaks and you'll be able to eliminate a lots of the car's standard understeer.

In a nutshell, the Civic felt like a kid's toy in comparison!

Best,

Animal

[300bhp/ton]

sperminator said:

Scoob all the way. CTR is a girls toy.

As for the scoob being noticeably slower than the Fiat etc etc etc. The one you drove must've been right royally fked.

Edited by sperminator on Wednesday 2nd September 11:00

eh?

Less hp and more weight do not equal faster in my book.

[300bhp/ton]

pitbull turbo said:

i am thinking of a new car to replace my fiat coupe. it must be fast as about the same as the fiat ( 240 bhp) and they both are a little bit slower but make up with it in handling. what are the running cost like between the two? i get 30mpg out the fiat and would i get near this on a motorway cruise in either of these.
what are the reliablity like on either of these?
what are they like to get some more power out?

I think it depends what you want from a car.

In stock trim the Impreza WRX (UK spec) is fully capable and with AWD will be more sure footed and usable in all weather and road conditions. In a straight line it won't be quite as quick as your Fiat though.

People dis the Impreza interiors, personally I've always found them ok, that said the Fiat has some really nice touches which add some real flare to the design, so ANY Japanese interior may seem a little dull afterwards.

If you want more power then its fairly easy and hassle free to get so I wouldn't worry about it. If you want a lot more power you may want to look at an STI or similar as they are better suited to big power and require less work.

The CTR is really not my sort of think at all, in either of the recent models. I'm sure its a fine handling car and the VTEC technology is impressive, but it also means a split personality engine that compared to a turbo 2.0 litre will seem very sluggish indeed.

Any car can be modded, but the CTR won't see much more n/a so its over to power adders to see BIG gains, this will also involve BIG cost, but its perfectly possible to up the HP a lot. However it will still remain a FWD hatch.



For me this would not even be a choice - Impreza hands down!

Both should be reliable, although I think the Scooby can be pricey if something should go wrong.

[nottyash]

pitbull turbo said:

i am thinking of a new car to replace my fiat coupe. it must be fast as about the same as the fiat ( 240 bhp) and they both are a little bit slower but make up with it in handling. what are the running cost like between the two? i get 30mpg out the fiat and would i get near this on a motorway cruise in either of these.
what are the reliablity like on either of these?
what are they like to get some more power out?

Sounds to me you like the performance of a turbo so i think you will be dissapointed with a Civic. However My EK9 Civic type R was fantastic at handling, I just got a bit bored with revving the nuts off to make sensible speed. My Scooby 2001 WRX feels wallowy standard, and I get 27MPG on my motorway runs.Also Feels laggy to 3000 revs. Easy to tune though, but then you use more fuel.
If your worried about fuel, I wouldnt buy an Impreza, though mine is 2MPG better than my 2000 classic shape.
You will be talking about the newer UK 2.0 CTR, which has no LSD, I would buy something like a Skoda Fabia VRS (Diesel) and slap a decent remap on. Mine was everybit as fast as a Type r, though handling is not, but you get 46mpg..driven hard
Its the same standard 130bhp VAG TDI pumpe dusse engine.
Mine was a 185bhp 295lb/ft torque after Angeltuning worked their magic in a car based on a Polo.

[texasjohn]

Animal said:

Pittbull, I had an '03 CTR for a little over a year before chopping it in for a blobeye WRX.

The CTR had two things going for it: a great gear shift action and lots of revs. That's it. Not particularly quick unless you rag it to death and the interior/build quality was average (or maybe I just had a Friday afternoon car!)

Coming from your Fiat the CTR will feel like a Jack Russell: lots of energy and get up and go, but without a great deal of real ability. In terms of tuning £1,200 will get you about 220bhp.

By comparison, a WRX with £1,500 worth of engine work (if you're paying someone else to do it) will get you around 275 reliable BHP and similar torque. Factor a few quid more for some cheap handling tweaks and you'll be able to eliminate a lots of the car's standard understeer.

In a nutshell, the Civic felt like a kid's toy in comparison!

Best,

Animal

Animal,

I have just purchased a blobeye PPP, can you elaborate on the 'cheap handling tweaks' . Is it worth me doing the snorkel delete mod (I know about that)

Thanks

John

[ScoobieWRX]

Get the Snorkus delete done...i.e. DIY very easy. Any reason to get more cold air into the airbox should be exploited. I advise all my customers before a remap to do that in conjunction with fitting a high flow flat panel air filter.

[GravelBen]

Does the snorkus mod actually have much effect on newage Imprezas? Gives no advantage on gen3 Legacies but apparently makes a difference on the gen2.

[ScoobieWRX]

On newage scoobs i've noted drops in temps going past the MAF sensor on a warm day of up to 2 or 3 degrees on the move having done several before and after logs just to get some consistent results. I haven't measured charge temps as that means fitting a thermocouple device in the throttle body of every car i map and that's not practical so i rely on what the MAF tells me but it stands to reason if intake airflow is cooler so will charge temps be.

More notably i've seen airflow rate increases of 2-3g/s upper mid range when properly on boost and 3-4g/s top end RPM.

In my opinion every little bit helps.

[Animal]

texasjohn said:

I have just purchased a blobeye PPP, can you elaborate on the 'cheap handling tweaks' . Is it worth me doing the snorkel delete mod (I know about that)

Thanks

John

John,

Google is your friend! Basically, a first-stage set of mods would be

1) Performance Air Filter (mine is Green)
2) Sports cat (downpipe)
3) Decat centre section
4) Backbox
5) Remap

Should set you back about £1,500 or so, depending on who you go to. That said, you could probably get something cheaper if you wanted to keep the current Prodrive backbox (think it also comes with a centre section too)

Remember, the PPP is a generic map which is not tailored to your car. A good mapper (look up Andy Forrest and Jolly Green Monster) will utterly, utterly transform your car.

Beware, this is addictive. Before long you will be spending long periods of time looking at your car with a deep frown, thinking very hard about brakes, anti-roll bars, coilover kits, etc, etc.

Best,

Animal

PS - Pics?