FIA national clubs stand behind Vatanen
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78458
Well, well, well, it looks like Ari Vatanen is consolidating his power base. 14 clubs are backing him now:
His clean image is paying off too. The letter contains some veiled stabs at the dubious links and suspected improprieties of the existing FIA regime.
Well, well, well, it looks like Ari Vatanen is consolidating his power base. 14 clubs are backing him now:
- Australia
- Canada
- Finland
- Germany
- Ireland
- Jamaica
- Jordan
- Netherlands
- Peru
- South Africa
- Sweden
- Switzerland
- Turkey
- Uganda
His clean image is paying off too. The letter contains some veiled stabs at the dubious links and suspected improprieties of the existing FIA regime.
Edited by Jungles on Friday 11th September 06:15
"Max Mosley has strengthened our federation for more than a decade and achieved a great deal.”
Damning by rather feint praise. And then we have the big but:
"But in our view, also less positive aspects have gradually manifested themselves, in particular with regard to the structure and governance of the FIA, making it preferable to seek change in order to be well prepared for the future.
"The democratic and secret ballot provides the chance to give the vote to the candidate of your choice. Ari and his team follow their values, democracy and transparency. That is why they are not coming with any lists telling the clubs who they should vote for the remaining seats of the World Motor Sport Council. It is up to the clubs to decide according to the statutes.”
It seems, therefore, that Todt’s team is coming with lists telling the clubs whom they should vote for the remaining WMSC seats.
"The team is also not buying votes with nomination promises to different motorsport commissions either. The best people shall be elected to these places without undue politics.”
And again. Todt is buying votes with nomination promises. And politics is stopping the best people being elected.
This is a highly critical condemnation of the voting system and the Mosley years. It accuses Todt of undemocratic tactics.
Todt has everything going for him. Ari Vat was given little chance at the beginning and I would suggest, looking at the rather sparse list, that nothing much has changed in the mean time. It’s the ones not on the list that are important.
There is the chance, of course, that some are holding back, not wanting to come out in favour of Vat so as not to become ‘marked’ by Mosley. One only has to remember what happened to those who voted against him during his all too brief resignation period. And if Todt stays so does Mosley in some way.
I’m pleased that the gloves appear to be coming off.
Damning by rather feint praise. And then we have the big but:
"But in our view, also less positive aspects have gradually manifested themselves, in particular with regard to the structure and governance of the FIA, making it preferable to seek change in order to be well prepared for the future.
"The democratic and secret ballot provides the chance to give the vote to the candidate of your choice. Ari and his team follow their values, democracy and transparency. That is why they are not coming with any lists telling the clubs who they should vote for the remaining seats of the World Motor Sport Council. It is up to the clubs to decide according to the statutes.”
It seems, therefore, that Todt’s team is coming with lists telling the clubs whom they should vote for the remaining WMSC seats.
"The team is also not buying votes with nomination promises to different motorsport commissions either. The best people shall be elected to these places without undue politics.”
And again. Todt is buying votes with nomination promises. And politics is stopping the best people being elected.
This is a highly critical condemnation of the voting system and the Mosley years. It accuses Todt of undemocratic tactics.
Todt has everything going for him. Ari Vat was given little chance at the beginning and I would suggest, looking at the rather sparse list, that nothing much has changed in the mean time. It’s the ones not on the list that are important.
There is the chance, of course, that some are holding back, not wanting to come out in favour of Vat so as not to become ‘marked’ by Mosley. One only has to remember what happened to those who voted against him during his all too brief resignation period. And if Todt stays so does Mosley in some way.
I’m pleased that the gloves appear to be coming off.
DangerousMike said:
sadly the british came out in favour of todt immediately, with a torrent of gushing praise about how great he is too.
Gutted, was so hoping it would be the other way around. I try and be open minded on everything but I cant stop think of Todt as a cheat and someone who will not be able to be 100% impartial when it comes to Ferrari.DangerousMike said:
sadly the british came out in favour of todt immediately, with a torrent of gushing praise about how great he is too".
Oh really? Please show me where the MSA have publicly come out "in favour of Todt immediately, with a torrent of gushing praise about how great he is too".(You won't be able to because they haven't done anything of the sort - all you are doing is supplying misinformation.)
Edited by touring fan on Friday 11th September 17:36
touring fan said:
DangerousMike said:
sadly the british came out in favour of todt immediately, with a torrent of gushing praise about how great he is too".
Oh really? Please show me where the MSA have publicly come out "in favour of Todt immediately, with a torrent of gushing praise about how great he is too".(You won't be able to because they haven't done anything of the sort - all you are doing is supplying misinformation.)
Edited by touring fan on Friday 11th September 17:36
Graham Stoker, candidate for FIA Deputy President (Sport) said,
“In the UK we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport, and Jean has my full support in his candidacy. I personally
have spent the last twenty years at the heart of the UK motor sport governing body
and I am very familiar with the issues and concerns of the FIA member clubs in
relation to motor sport. I look forward to bringing this knowledge direct to the
leadership team, and I offer my full commitment to the FIA in the challenging years
ahead.”
source: http://www.jeantodtandteam2009.com/JTT2009_mr_1607...
“In the UK we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport, and Jean has my full support in his candidacy. I personally
have spent the last twenty years at the heart of the UK motor sport governing body
and I am very familiar with the issues and concerns of the FIA member clubs in
relation to motor sport. I look forward to bringing this knowledge direct to the
leadership team, and I offer my full commitment to the FIA in the challenging years
ahead.”
source: http://www.jeantodtandteam2009.com/JTT2009_mr_1607...
Edited by DangerousMike on Friday 11th September 20:45
DangerousMike said:
Graham Stoker, candidate for FIA Deputy President (Sport) said,
“In the UK we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport, and Jean has my full support in his candidacy. I personally
have spent the last twenty years at the heart of the UK motor sport governing body
and I am very familiar with the issues and concerns of the FIA member clubs in
relation to motor sport. I look forward to bringing this knowledge direct to the
leadership team, and I offer my full commitment to the FIA in the challenging years
ahead.”
source: http://www.jeantodtandteam2009.com/JTT2009_mr_1607...
That is not a statement by or on behalf of the MSA. That is a statement made by an individual on behalf of his own deputy-presidential candidacy...hence why he only says "Jean has my full support in his candidacy". That's why it does not say "Jean has the MSA's full support". “In the UK we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport, and Jean has my full support in his candidacy. I personally
have spent the last twenty years at the heart of the UK motor sport governing body
and I am very familiar with the issues and concerns of the FIA member clubs in
relation to motor sport. I look forward to bringing this knowledge direct to the
leadership team, and I offer my full commitment to the FIA in the challenging years
ahead.”
source: http://www.jeantodtandteam2009.com/JTT2009_mr_1607...
Edited by DangerousMike on Friday 11th September 20:45
Nor, if you go through Todt's website or any articles written about his candidacy, will you see the MSA listed as one of his supporters. In fact he himself has released a list of his supporters and (tellingly) Britain is not amongst them; http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77819
Edited by touring fan on Friday 11th September 21:03
Edited by touring fan on Friday 11th September 21:04
DangerousMike said:
said:
we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport
Clearly the MSA haven't offered their support to Todt, which is why they have not been listed as one of Todt's supportive countries and why that guy only referred to his own support (and not the MSA's). If Britain, which is one of the most important countries in world motorsport, were backing Todt it would be major news and don't you think that Todt would have listed them as one of his supporters along with the others?
With respect, I think you have to appreciate that there is a BIG difference between what an individual says on his own behalf, and what an organisation says on its own behalf.
That's not to say that that MSA may actually end up supporting Todt - who knows. But its wrong to attribute something to them that they did not say.
Edited by touring fan on Friday 11th September 21:49
touring fan said:
DangerousMike said:
said:
we at the MSA met Jean Todt earlier this year. The MSA Board and
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport
Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual with a deep overarching
knowledge of motor sport
Clearly the MSA haven't offered their support to Todt, which is why they have not been listed as one of Todt's supportive countries and why that guy only referred to his own support (and not the MSA's). If Britain, which is one of the most important countries in world motorsport, were backing Todt it would be major news and don't you think that Todt would have listed them as one of his supporters along with the others?
With respect, I think you have to appreciate that there is a BIG difference between what an individual says on his own behalf, and what an organisation says on its own behalf.
That's not to say that that MSA may actually end up supporting Todt - who knows. But its wrong to attribute something to them that they did not say.
It's pretty obvious that he is trying to conflate the MSA's official position with his own selfish interests.
Stoker is a private candidate. Should he be speaking on behalf of the MSA - to endorse himself?
self-serving Stoker said:
we at the MSA met Jean Todt. The MSA Board and Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual...
A couple of years back someone here on GM said, implying first-hand knowledge, that Graham Stoker was straighter than straight, etc. At the time, and with no information to the contrary, one accepted that and was indeed glad to hear it.Now? Forget it. Stoker's PR campaign is, sadly, what one expects from Todt and his ilk.
flemke said:
Stoker's a lawyer; his job is to be artful with his words.
It's pretty obvious that he is trying to conflate the MSA's official position with his own selfish interests.
Stoker is a private candidate. Should he be speaking on behalf of the MSA - to endorse himself?
Now? Forget it. Stoker's PR campaign is, sadly, what one expects from Todt and his ilk.
Absolutely correct. Stocker is just trying to use his position in the MSA to give his own personal campaign some gravitas.It's pretty obvious that he is trying to conflate the MSA's official position with his own selfish interests.
Stoker is a private candidate. Should he be speaking on behalf of the MSA - to endorse himself?
self-serving Stoker said:
we at the MSA met Jean Todt. The MSA Board and Council found him to be a hugely impressive individual...
A couple of years back someone here on GM said, implying first-hand knowledge, that Graham Stoker was straighter than straight, etc. At the time, and with no information to the contrary, one accepted that and was indeed glad to hear it.Now? Forget it. Stoker's PR campaign is, sadly, what one expects from Todt and his ilk.
To be fair to the MSA I'm pleased that they haven't (yet) jumped onto the Todt bandwagon like so many others already have. One would hope they are still keeping their options open this far out from the election.
Edited by touring fan on Saturday 12th September 00:24
I find it very disappointing that the (paying) MSA licence holders have no say in the matter...
would also be good if each ASN's vote was weighted against how many licence holders they represented (or something similar?), this would stop the likes of Mohammed Bin Sulayem concocting 40 something votes.
whatever happened to democracy?
would also be good if each ASN's vote was weighted against how many licence holders they represented (or something similar?), this would stop the likes of Mohammed Bin Sulayem concocting 40 something votes.
whatever happened to democracy?
Scuffers said:
would also be good if each ASN's vote was weighted against how many licence holders they represented (or something similar?), this would stop the likes of Mohammed Bin Sulayem concocting 40 something votes.
whatever happened to democracy?
That wouldn't work as then you would have countries like China, India, Russia & USA with the massive majority of votes and power - because the FIA votes are equally from their motoring organisations memberships, not just the sporting organisations, so those large countries/motoring organisations with large membership would carry many more votes.whatever happened to democracy?
Here in Britain, the MSA only gets one vote. But so also do the other British FIA affiliated motoring organisations such as AA, RAC, Institute of Advanced Motorists & even the Caravan Club! So when people wonder how 'Britain' votes, you would need to find out how all those other British organisations (combined) also voted in order to work that one out.
Edited by touring fan on Saturday 12th September 09:07
touring fan said:
Here in Britain, the MSA only gets one vote. But so also do the other British FIA affiliated motoring organisations such as AA, RAC, Institute of Advanced Motorists & even the Caravan Club! So when people wonder how 'Britain' votes, you would need to find out how all those other British organisations (combined) also voted in order to work that one out.
And if you are a member of one of these bodies it is worth contacting them to make your feelings known about why they should vote a particular way, I certainly have done. One point very much in favour there is that with the exception of the MSA each body is more concerned with general motoring issues than motorsport - only one of the candidates could be said to have any strength and experience in both. I personally would not say that the other has any strength in either.touring fan said:
That wouldn't work as then you would have countries like China, India, Russia & USA with the massive majority of votes and power - because the FIA votes are equally from their motoring organisations memberships, not just the sporting organisations, so those large countries/motoring organisations with large membership would carry many more votes.
Here in Britain, the MSA only gets one vote. But so also do the other British FIA affiliated motoring organisations such as AA, RAC, Institute of Advanced Motorists & even the Caravan Club! So when people wonder how 'Britain' votes, you would need to find out how all those other British organisations (combined) also voted in order to work that one out.
The Caravan Club put out a very critical prss release at the time of Mosley's prostitutes-dressed-in-German-military-uniform-we-are-Aryans-prison-camp-scenario-gate - catchy title - AKA nothing-to-do-with-Nazis-of-course-gate-oh-no-certainly-not-double-gate, complaining that they were being represented by a person of ill repute when, despite being a fully paid up member of the FIA and having half a miliion members (approx, can't remember the actual number) they didn't vote him in and couldn't vote him out.Here in Britain, the MSA only gets one vote. But so also do the other British FIA affiliated motoring organisations such as AA, RAC, Institute of Advanced Motorists & even the Caravan Club! So when people wonder how 'Britain' votes, you would need to find out how all those other British organisations (combined) also voted in order to work that one out.
Still, it is a fair voting system. We have Mosley's workd for that.
The voting system is explained here:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/statutes/Pages/Ar...
As I read it, the idea is that each country has 2 votes in any matter that relates to both mobility and sporting stuff.
If there is a single outfit that represents a country for both areas, it may cast the 2 votes.
If there is more than a single outfit:
The FIA recognises only one sporting authority for a country, so that gets its sporting vote.
The FIA allows multiple mobility organisations from a single country to be FIA members (Caravan Club, RAC, etc.), and a majority of them must agree in order for them to cast their 1 (collective) mobility vote.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/statutes/Pages/Ar...
As I read it, the idea is that each country has 2 votes in any matter that relates to both mobility and sporting stuff.
If there is a single outfit that represents a country for both areas, it may cast the 2 votes.
If there is more than a single outfit:
The FIA recognises only one sporting authority for a country, so that gets its sporting vote.
The FIA allows multiple mobility organisations from a single country to be FIA members (Caravan Club, RAC, etc.), and a majority of them must agree in order for them to cast their 1 (collective) mobility vote.
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