These are the glory days of F1
Discussion
F1 has taken a battering recently with its off-track controversies. I've followed the sport since I was a kid in the 70s and I have fond memories of the Villeneuve/Arnoux and Senna/Prost eras. But, I was pondering this morning trying to predict a winner of the Italian GP and realised, actually, these are the glory days.....
Here's why....
1) In past years your predicted GP winner would be picked from just a couple of names. On Sunday it could be anyone - even a Toyota!
2) In the last 12 months (stats fans may tell me I am wrong) every single team in Formula One has scored either a win or a second place. It has never, ever, been this close! In the 80s it wasn't unusual to have 7 seconds covering the grid. Now, it is about 1.5 seconds maximium.
3)Teams are showing the value of investing in young talent and they are winning from the beginning of their careers: eg: Hamilton, Vettel
4) Veterans are having an Indian Summer as well (Rubens, Fisi)
5) We are seeing exciting new venues. Purists may say Abu Dhabi and Singapore don't have the history of Spa or Monza. But we still have Spa and Monza. Most of the circuits we have lost have been pretty forgettable. Think Magny Cours, Zolder, Jerez, Ricard.....
6) The average quality of the grid is higher than ever. Badoer proved this. There are no Deletrazs, Baumgartners or Yoongs on this year's grid. They are a quality bunch. Even Nelsinho.... The closeness of the cars means that teams can't afford to skimp on drivers as they could in the past, where having a Diniz meant you still could be ahead of the Minardis.
7) Watch the old BBC Classic Footage. Cars were lapped after 10 laps! And there really wasn't much overtaking. Murray gets excited whenever cars are within 10 secs of each other.
After falling out of love with F1 recently, I've changed. I'm taking off my rose tinted glasses, opening some Chianti and settling down to watch Monza in a modern classic era of F1.
Here's why....
1) In past years your predicted GP winner would be picked from just a couple of names. On Sunday it could be anyone - even a Toyota!
2) In the last 12 months (stats fans may tell me I am wrong) every single team in Formula One has scored either a win or a second place. It has never, ever, been this close! In the 80s it wasn't unusual to have 7 seconds covering the grid. Now, it is about 1.5 seconds maximium.
3)Teams are showing the value of investing in young talent and they are winning from the beginning of their careers: eg: Hamilton, Vettel
4) Veterans are having an Indian Summer as well (Rubens, Fisi)
5) We are seeing exciting new venues. Purists may say Abu Dhabi and Singapore don't have the history of Spa or Monza. But we still have Spa and Monza. Most of the circuits we have lost have been pretty forgettable. Think Magny Cours, Zolder, Jerez, Ricard.....
6) The average quality of the grid is higher than ever. Badoer proved this. There are no Deletrazs, Baumgartners or Yoongs on this year's grid. They are a quality bunch. Even Nelsinho.... The closeness of the cars means that teams can't afford to skimp on drivers as they could in the past, where having a Diniz meant you still could be ahead of the Minardis.
7) Watch the old BBC Classic Footage. Cars were lapped after 10 laps! And there really wasn't much overtaking. Murray gets excited whenever cars are within 10 secs of each other.
After falling out of love with F1 recently, I've changed. I'm taking off my rose tinted glasses, opening some Chianti and settling down to watch Monza in a modern classic era of F1.
F1 is going through a more interesting period than at any time for probably 20 years - mainly due to the fact that, with the demise of the Schumacher era, no one car or team has become dominant. This has made the outcomes of individual races and the championships more unpredictable. This of course, is a good thing.
However, in other aspects the sport is not that great compared to earlier decades.
The drivers are less charismatic.
The cars aren't that aesthetically pleasing to look at - although I know that this is entirel;y subjective. One man's ugly looking car is another man's beauty.
The cars don't look that great in motion - apart from their sheer speed. Just look at the video clip that was posted recently on the 1970 Monaco GP and see how the cars slip, slide, dip and weave as power/brakes etc are applied and released. They look far more dynamic - although they are, of course, slower.
The circuits, with a couple of exceptions, are soulless.
However, I am enjoying F1 more since at least the mid 1990s so I'm not really complaining.
However, in other aspects the sport is not that great compared to earlier decades.
The drivers are less charismatic.
The cars aren't that aesthetically pleasing to look at - although I know that this is entirel;y subjective. One man's ugly looking car is another man's beauty.
The cars don't look that great in motion - apart from their sheer speed. Just look at the video clip that was posted recently on the 1970 Monaco GP and see how the cars slip, slide, dip and weave as power/brakes etc are applied and released. They look far more dynamic - although they are, of course, slower.
The circuits, with a couple of exceptions, are soulless.
However, I am enjoying F1 more since at least the mid 1990s so I'm not really complaining.
Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 11th September 08:51
Im not disagreeing that this year has been a very good one for racing but saying its going to go down in history as a classic year is some ask a few things that are annoying me at the moment:
1) Drivers. Although maybe some of the most talented and closely matched grid they act like robots either by choice or as I suspect told how to act by the powers to be. When was the last time you saw a burn out after a win or a driver doing doughnuts for the fans?. Senna, Montoya?. When was the last time we saw the drivers really celebrating? stopping to pick up a flag for the parade lap? Ive seen races this year that don't even have a full lap for the driver to celebrate.
2) New race tracks. Money gets a race now a days i doesn't matter which country or how boring the track if you can afford if bernie will give you a race. We now have some VERY dull tracks. In the glory days Monaco used to be the only real parade now we have Monaco and Valencia, others have very little overtaking.
3) Cars. In the past there used to be different designs, more freedom for designers to change the exterior of their cars. Now all we get is the slightest of variations in wings everything else is standard. This year we do have slicks and KERS though (I must be the only fan of KERS).
4) Rules and Regulations. This is ruining the sport. One team introduces a new part and there is an investigation. 1st corner pile up and there are half a dozen appeals and investigations. Someone overtaken agressivly and again more appeals and investigations, very often after the race. And then if a team is reprimanded it will end up in High Court!. Gone are the days of some proper racing incidents that we saw in the Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Montoya eras.
Appart from the above we have one of the best seasons for ages. A lot fo the problems I have listed come from the governance of the sport and probably Mosely. It will be interesting to see how his replacement gets on next year.
Talking of which im looking forward to next year the lack of fuel stops will be interesting making heavier, bigger cars, should give the designers more to work with and the drivers a harder task of driving.
1) Drivers. Although maybe some of the most talented and closely matched grid they act like robots either by choice or as I suspect told how to act by the powers to be. When was the last time you saw a burn out after a win or a driver doing doughnuts for the fans?. Senna, Montoya?. When was the last time we saw the drivers really celebrating? stopping to pick up a flag for the parade lap? Ive seen races this year that don't even have a full lap for the driver to celebrate.
2) New race tracks. Money gets a race now a days i doesn't matter which country or how boring the track if you can afford if bernie will give you a race. We now have some VERY dull tracks. In the glory days Monaco used to be the only real parade now we have Monaco and Valencia, others have very little overtaking.
3) Cars. In the past there used to be different designs, more freedom for designers to change the exterior of their cars. Now all we get is the slightest of variations in wings everything else is standard. This year we do have slicks and KERS though (I must be the only fan of KERS).
4) Rules and Regulations. This is ruining the sport. One team introduces a new part and there is an investigation. 1st corner pile up and there are half a dozen appeals and investigations. Someone overtaken agressivly and again more appeals and investigations, very often after the race. And then if a team is reprimanded it will end up in High Court!. Gone are the days of some proper racing incidents that we saw in the Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Montoya eras.
Appart from the above we have one of the best seasons for ages. A lot fo the problems I have listed come from the governance of the sport and probably Mosely. It will be interesting to see how his replacement gets on next year.
Talking of which im looking forward to next year the lack of fuel stops will be interesting making heavier, bigger cars, should give the designers more to work with and the drivers a harder task of driving.
I totally agree that these are the golden times.
I also have felt for a long time that people kept saying it used to be better were looking through rose tinted specs.
Another point is overtaking is so hard now partly because the guys are so good and make such few mistakes, also if the cars are very close in performance its harder. Not to mention that modern drivers are very very robust in defence. Back in the 80's it was common to see even the best NOT even blocking once!
I also have felt for a long time that people kept saying it used to be better were looking through rose tinted specs.
Another point is overtaking is so hard now partly because the guys are so good and make such few mistakes, also if the cars are very close in performance its harder. Not to mention that modern drivers are very very robust in defence. Back in the 80's it was common to see even the best NOT even blocking once!
There are only 2 good drivers, but they seem to be in underperforming cars. All the other drivers are s
te and rely on safety cars and pitstops to overtake. There is far too much money and not enough talent, the races are only good for curing insomnia. How is this a golden era? you guys need your heads read 
te and rely on safety cars and pitstops to overtake. There is far too much money and not enough talent, the races are only good for curing insomnia. How is this a golden era? you guys need your heads read 
Er, Nope.
Golden days involved sideways movement, out of most corners and quite frequently into them. More horsepower than available grip could deal with. And bugger all downforce.
All of which would be easy to re-create now that we have a control tyre. Someone just has to be brave enough to spec the tyre somewhere slightly softer than concrete, lift all limits on engines and bring in a minimum ride height of six inches.
Golden days involved sideways movement, out of most corners and quite frequently into them. More horsepower than available grip could deal with. And bugger all downforce.
All of which would be easy to re-create now that we have a control tyre. Someone just has to be brave enough to spec the tyre somewhere slightly softer than concrete, lift all limits on engines and bring in a minimum ride height of six inches.
Leithen said:
Er, Nope.
Golden days involved sideways movement, out of most corners and quite frequently into them. More horsepower than available grip could deal with. And bugger all downforce.
All of which would be easy to re-create now that we have a control tyre. Someone just has to be brave enough to spec the tyre somewhere slightly softer than concrete, lift all limits on engines and bring in a minimum ride height of six inches.
Agreed - simple formula for exciting cars is excess of power over grip.Golden days involved sideways movement, out of most corners and quite frequently into them. More horsepower than available grip could deal with. And bugger all downforce.
All of which would be easy to re-create now that we have a control tyre. Someone just has to be brave enough to spec the tyre somewhere slightly softer than concrete, lift all limits on engines and bring in a minimum ride height of six inches.
With the possible exception of the Ferrari dominance in the MS days it has always been glory days. I started taking an interest, became a fan if you will, in 1966 when the 3-litre formula started, and I've been treated to some fantastic years, some fabulous cars, and so many memorable races. Turbos, ground effect, wings, livery. It was only Ferrari under the old regime that spoiled it for me.
Recently the politics, always present of course, but never so overwhelming, have spoiled so much despite the racing has been so good. Lotus, Brabham, Williams, McLaren, all the great cars, and too many drivers to mention.
It is always glory.
Recently the politics, always present of course, but never so overwhelming, have spoiled so much despite the racing has been so good. Lotus, Brabham, Williams, McLaren, all the great cars, and too many drivers to mention.
It is always glory.
Derek Smith said:
It is always glory.
Completely agree.Vast majority of F1 seasons/eras have been great for various different reasons.
Yes, the calibre of the competition is far far greater than I can remember. IMHO I've been disappointed by this year for different reasons. Firstly we yet to see some great drives, only Vettel's dominant victory at Silverstone springs to mind. The racing has been mediocre at times - especially up front within the top 4.
Today is OK, but still not enough over taking. Needs a classic track for this not the Tilke Crap.
And all this non-overtaking in the pits - thanks christ all that bllock is going to stop. They will actuall try moves on other drives, instead of pushing like hell for a few laps when the car in front (that they can't get past) has pitted.
The Turbo years were the best BTW.
And all this non-overtaking in the pits - thanks christ all that bllock is going to stop. They will actuall try moves on other drives, instead of pushing like hell for a few laps when the car in front (that they can't get past) has pitted.
The Turbo years were the best BTW.
By the standards of this forum I'm not a massive F1 fan, but against your average person I would probably be considered an enthusiast. But I can't watch a whole F1 race, it's just too boring. It's a nice thing to have on in the background, and qualifying is also fun. But 90 minutes with 2 overtakes? Yawn. In fact I would go as far as to say that the 90 minutes of the race are the least interesting part of the 2 week cycle.
I hope the "olden days" were better than this?
I hope the "olden days" were better than this?
your points remind me of the fried bread chilli chutney triple decker egg sandwich
only backwards
all the ingredients are wrong but put them all together and (according to a sci fi character) it all becomes 'right'
your points are all correct, but when put together .... F1 just isnt good right now (but marginally better than the last couple of years)
only backwards
all the ingredients are wrong but put them all together and (according to a sci fi character) it all becomes 'right'
your points are all correct, but when put together .... F1 just isnt good right now (but marginally better than the last couple of years)
sperminator said:
There are only 2 good drivers, but they seem to be in underperforming cars. All the other drivers are ste and rely on safety cars and pitstops to overtake. There is far too much money and not enough talent, the races are only good for curing insomnia. How is this a golden era? you guys need your heads read
Hamilton & ?te and rely on safety cars and pitstops to overtake. There is far too much money and not enough talent, the races are only good for curing insomnia. How is this a golden era? you guys need your heads read Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff