Floor mounted pedals

[Slow M]

Has anybody (except for REALLY short people) done or tried to do this in an M?

[heightswitch]

Slow M said:

Has anybody (except for REALLY short people) done or tried to do this in an M?

John Simpson has some in his M I think.

Neil.

[TVR_owner]

My race car has a Tilton floor mounted pedal box with brake bias and remote resevoirs (underbonnet).

[heightswitch]

TVR_owner said:

My race car has a Tilton floor mounted pedal box with brake bias and remote resevoirs (underbonnet).

Come to think of it. Geoff's Racing car also has a Tilton Box with AP small cylinders and remote resevoirs under the bonnet.

N.

[AntJC]

I take it no good if you want to retain or use the original servo.

I assume that you would have to use a remote servo like one the original Mini Cooper etc??

[TVR_owner]

AntJC said:

I take it no good if you want to retain or use the original servo.

I assume that you would have to use a remote servo like one the original Mini Cooper etc??

Don't have a servo, but a remote item would be an option.

[thegamekeeper]

Complicated fitting servo(s) to split system.The whole point about twin master cylinders is to give adjustable bias and negate the need for servo assistance.
ps John and Neil. I,ve got your tricky hubs now.

[heightswitch]

Excellent.
Are you coming to Angle see Steve or do you want us to drop in on the way?

Will give you a bell later.

N.

[AntJC]

So for an all round disc set up a twin master cylinder set up with bias valve would be a better option than retaining the standard factory servo/master cylinder set up??

[TVR_owner]

AntJC said:

So for an all round disc set up a twin master cylinder set up with bias valve would be a better option than retaining the standard factory servo/master cylinder set up??

Twin master cylinder would normally have a bias bar rather than a valve as the front and back are on different circuits.

Brake bias...

Fit expensive rear dics upgrade, adjust bias so 80% of braking is back on the front because the rear wants to overtake the front with much more rear brakes...scratch chin and then convince self the rear disc upgrade was for asthetics, to reduce unsprung weight and for better cooling...only kidding of course.










sorry Adrian@

[Slow M]

TVR_owner said:

My race car has a Tilton floor mounted pedal box with brake bias and remote resevoirs (underbonnet).

John,
are your master cylinders mounted in the standard position on the tilton pedal box? If not, how have you mounted them? I've considered using an alternate method like bell cranks for MC activation to maximise legroom but that seems overly complicated.
B.

[heightswitch]

TVR_owner said:

AntJC said:

So for an all round disc set up a twin master cylinder set up with bias valve would be a better option than retaining the standard factory servo/master cylinder set up??

Twin master cylinder would normally have a bias bar rather than a valve as the front and back are on different circuits.

Brake bias...

Fit expensive rear dics upgrade, adjust bias so 80% of braking is back on the front because the rear wants to overtake the front with much more rear brakes...scratch chin and then convince self the rear disc upgrade was for asthetics, to reduce unsprung weight and for better cooling...only kidding of course.

A servo is only required if you have particularly weak and feeble legs and have dificulty extending them to press the pedals.

I might even post some pics of my very cheap front big 2 pot vented disc conversion Which I convinced myself was so I wouldn't have to spend lots on light weight calipers and discs and bells.

Some people (saddos) even fit Alfin rear drums in that last desperate attempt to save a few ounces of unsprung weight.

N.











sorry Adrian@

[TVR_owner]

Slow M said:

TVR_owner said:

My race car has a Tilton floor mounted pedal box with brake bias and remote resevoirs (underbonnet).

John,
are your master cylinders mounted in the standard position on the tilton pedal box? If not, how have you mounted them? I've considered using an alternate method like bell cranks for MC activation to maximise legroom but that seems overly complicated.
B.

Standard place Bernard.

I'm just under 6ft 2...ish with normal body leg ratio. Legroom is fine now with the pedal box, the steering colum raised and a flat bottomed steering wheel...

To the previous poster who mentioned Alfins, he may wish to consider the other benefits Alfins bring to drum braking, or just butt out get back to feeding his ducks.

[AntJC]

Right as they say in for a penny..........

I'm picking up my Taimar project tomorrow, plan is to go down the SBF route.

What would the collective on here suggest in the way of brake upgrade options, bearing in mind have no issues with using non original parts/modern upgrades etc.

Might as well start buring the cash at the start of the project...

Regards

Anthony

[Slow M]

TVR_owner said:

Standard place Bernard.
I'm just under 6ft 2...ish with normal body leg ratio. Legroom is fine now with the pedal box, the steering colum raised and a flat bottomed steering wheel...

Thanks John,
at just over 5'-10" and slightly Neanderthalish legs, I should have no problem then.
Which ones do you have? These,
or these, .
B

AntJC said:

What would the collective on here suggest in the way of brake upgrade options, bearing in mind have no issues with using non original parts/modern upgrades etc.

Congratulations on your acquisition!
My part of the collective mind tells me that you haven't given quite enough info for a complete answer. I think it all comes down to...
...how much POWER you will be asking the SBF to make and what the intended use of the car will be (and, um, how much money you have to spend).

[heightswitch]

Your M PB based TR6 calipers give a very good surface swept area and have a good build for reliable operation. Your biggest enemy will be brake fade through constant operation.

not all 4 pot caliper conversions are as good as keeping your existing TR6 based 2 pots so be careful.

I have just utilised modified Ford granada 2 pots which have bigger pistons. these run with a spacer kit (12mm) available from Rally design. to fit them you have to elongate the holes on the caliper body slightly so that they will bolt up to the TR6 caliper bracket. the discs I have used are 287mm Cosworth which have been lazer cut to give the correct PCD to mount to the hub and slight enlargement of the whole centre.

Interestingly the laser cutting was accurate to .2mm where the disc run out from the manufacturer was 1.2mm so it makes sense to centre and run disc in the lathe on a face plate to true them up.

With some proper pads and decent friction mterial al round (bonded and riveted linings on the rear) this is all you should need.

Discs were £25 ea spacer kit about £50, Granada calipers available for buttons at all good scrap yards. some spacers are also needed to centre the vented disc to the caliper

if you are racing then you (dependant on regs) may need to go to 4 pots but most 4 pot conversions on road based cars are a complete waste of money! Especially on M's

when you measure clamping pressure and disc suface area you will often as not find that a lot of 4 pots give less overall performance (clamping area) than my mod unless you have significantly upped the rotor diameter to utilise a bigger caliper

Discs and brakes which run too cool (IE those on a wildly modified road car) are just as bad as those which get too hot!!

most road cars (M,s wedges etc do not need anything like the brakes they are often fitted with)

If you are running a relatively mild spec V8 say up to about 275 - 300hp then really you should be OK with this set up.

You can spend much more money if you want to save weight by using alloy calipers (and they do save lots of weight) but in a road car apart from bragging down the pub do you really need to??

Vented discs to improve fade resistance are pretty important though.

But so is choosing the correct friction material

neil.

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 17th September 19:32

[TVR_owner]

Bernard,
The first one of the two photographs is what I have fitted. Some additional light brakets between chassis rails under the floor and I have a nice well mounted arrangment.

John

[heightswitch]

TVR_owner said:

Bernard,
The first one of the two photographs is what I have fitted. Some additional light brakets between chassis rails under the floor and I have a nice well mounted arrangment.

John

Bernard.
The first set with the friction pads on the pedal are very good. I can vouch that the throttle bracket on the pedal doesn't in any way interfere with Johns leg calipers or his hand controls which neatly run behind the main body of the pedal box assembly box assembly;)

It is very important to ensure that the whole assembly is braced on the floor though since any flex in the floor pan makes a massive difference to the efficiency of the pedal box. If possible welding cross braces between the centre chassis rail and outrigger is the best way to mount the box, as is bonding in extra material to the floorpan to stiffen it up.

N.

[TVR_owner]

heightswitch said:

TVR_owner said:

Bernard,
The first one of the two photographs is what I have fitted. Some additional light brakets between chassis rails under the floor and I have a nice well mounted arrangment.

John

Bernard.
The first set with the friction pads on the pedal are very good. I can vouch that the throttle bracket on the pedal doesn't in any way interfere with Johns leg calipers or his hand controls which neatly run behind the main body of the pedal box assembly box assembly;)

It is very important to ensure that the whole assembly is braced on the floor though since any flex in the floor pan makes a massive difference to the efficiency of the pedal box. If possible welding cross braces between the centre chassis rail and outrigger is the best way to mount the box, as is bonding in extra material to the floorpan to stiffen it up.

N.

I dont run with the braket on the throttle...as for installation, I think thats what I already said!! Go give the ducks their breakfast.

[Adrian@]

I get stuck in hospital and you boys will play...There was a time when 4 pots were the thing to have, but today the materials that you can put into the standard caliper is far superior then the best materials the 4 pot can supply...I have spent the time to back to back test Std calipers verses my Willwood 4 pots against my AP 4 pots. (using the same car and tyre combo) NEW standard calipers with current road/race materials (there are several makes now at about 85 UKP) performed better than than my Willwood (only, IMHO BECAUSE I could not get the materials to get them to work apart from the fact that the design does not have a anti-rattle kit to aid noise reduction)the lightweight AP were then restricted by the tyre efficiency as on the limit they could then lock the car up and slide.
Again IMHO brakes need the tyres and maybe profile to transfer the stopping power down to the ground.
A note here.... I do a twin master set to mount on the std. servo.
On the rear brake caliper systems...efficiency (therefore bias/balance) can be set by using different materials (possibly 30 plus various combos).
As a basic rule of thumb equation.... 2 sets of pads to each set of discs, equate to a good efficient system.
Adrian@