RE: Total Toll Disaster?
Wednesday 7th January 2004
Total Toll Disaster?
Are enough people going to use the M6 toll road?
Britain’s first major toll road - the new M6 - might be seen as the thin end of the wedge by transport planners but few motorists plan to use it, according to a new survey.
Most British motorists have no intention of using the new toll road, ever according to a survey by Autonational Rescue.
Fifty seven per cent of Britain’s motorists say they will never use the new pay-as-you-go motorway, which bypasses a 27-mile stretch of the M6 in the West Midlands, one of Europe’s busiest motorways, including Birmingham’s Spaghetti Junction.
37% of all motorists say they might use it “once in a blue moon” while only three per cent say they plan to use it once a month.
Practically no-one says they will use the new motorway once a week and absolutely no-one says they will use it once a day, not even in the West Midlands itself.
The only crumbs of toll-road comfort came from the West Midlands drivers themselves, where 6% said they would use the road once a month and 51% once in a blue moon.
But even in that key region, 42% said no, they would never use it.
Ronan Hart, marketing manager of Autonational Rescue who commissioned the driving omnibus survey of 1,000 motorists with Research Surveys of Great Britain, said: “Attitudes may change in the future, but UK motorists just aren’t happy to pay charges for using private motorways on top of the charges they already pay in road taxes .
Link: www.m6toll.co.uk/
Discussion
I am against it on principle.
But I have used the toll road four times over the Christmas period and thoroughly enjoyed the a cruising speed of XXXmph as there was almost no traffic on it...
Since I don't have to use it often the cost is inconsequential to me.
Those who could use it to commute probably won't as the £4 a day would add up very quickly...which is even better (for me) as the toll will keep the local traffic off it.
I don't care if the Toll road doesn't make its management firm any money. If they go bust (i.e. not enough toll revenue to service their inevitable huge debt) then so what? The road won't close....it'll just discourage other private investors - not a bad thing either.
Its win win win all the way...
But I have used the toll road four times over the Christmas period and thoroughly enjoyed the a cruising speed of XXXmph as there was almost no traffic on it...
Since I don't have to use it often the cost is inconsequential to me.
Those who could use it to commute probably won't as the £4 a day would add up very quickly...which is even better (for me) as the toll will keep the local traffic off it.
I don't care if the Toll road doesn't make its management firm any money. If they go bust (i.e. not enough toll revenue to service their inevitable huge debt) then so what? The road won't close....it'll just discourage other private investors - not a bad thing either.
Its win win win all the way...
I'm in total agreement - I've used it once, but it really didn't make much difference at all to overall journey time (I'm a local BTW) and I can't get off it northbound where I want to, so won't be using it again.
I'll reiterate what I've said before - the only thing I've seen on it are cars. The haulage firms are boycotting it completely from what I can see. The only time I think they'll use it is if M6 gets blocked by a shunt, then they'll bypass the shunt, but then go back to the free M6 when its clear.
If it was free it'd be packed, no worries.
At £2 a go, for cars heading to/from Manchester/London its good value, for trucks at £10 a pop its not quite so much of a bargain - and those are discounted rates.
Early days yet admittedly (only been open just over 3 weeks) but it aint the raging success they hopeed for.
I'll reiterate what I've said before - the only thing I've seen on it are cars. The haulage firms are boycotting it completely from what I can see. The only time I think they'll use it is if M6 gets blocked by a shunt, then they'll bypass the shunt, but then go back to the free M6 when its clear.
If it was free it'd be packed, no worries.
At £2 a go, for cars heading to/from Manchester/London its good value, for trucks at £10 a pop its not quite so much of a bargain - and those are discounted rates.
Early days yet admittedly (only been open just over 3 weeks) but it aint the raging success they hopeed for.
The results themselves are not a great surprise, particularly as the roads does nothing for travellers to Birmingham centre or for those wanting the M5, both of which must make up a large proportion of the traffic.
It seems ideally suited to those going to/from the NEC or London and the North, which is always going to be a difficult number to judge in such a large connurbation.
Anyhow, I used it over the festive period for my journey North, where it felt like a private road. On the way back I used the vanilla M6, as a) there was little other traffic and b) I prefer to use the M5 route rather than M42/M40/A34 -- particularly with all the works & cameras on the 42.
It seems ideally suited to those going to/from the NEC or London and the North, which is always going to be a difficult number to judge in such a large connurbation.
Anyhow, I used it over the festive period for my journey North, where it felt like a private road. On the way back I used the vanilla M6, as a) there was little other traffic and b) I prefer to use the M5 route rather than M42/M40/A34 -- particularly with all the works & cameras on the 42.
Out of touch, or perhaps just out of date. I believe this road was originally suggested by Thatcher's government.
As Boris Johnson said - if it works, they'll take the credit for suggesting it, if it fails, they'll leave Labour to take the rap for building it.
As for using it, I'll probably use it every time I head back up to Scotland. Used it coming home on New Year's Day and as others have said, it was empty. I'll be trying it again next Thursday night which will be interesting.
Of course the problem with the perceived benefit is that you can't be on both roads at the same time - for all you know, the M6 Free might be completely empty or gridlocked while you're in traffic / on an empty road on the M6 Toll.
As Boris Johnson said - if it works, they'll take the credit for suggesting it, if it fails, they'll leave Labour to take the rap for building it.
As for using it, I'll probably use it every time I head back up to Scotland. Used it coming home on New Year's Day and as others have said, it was empty. I'll be trying it again next Thursday night which will be interesting.
Of course the problem with the perceived benefit is that you can't be on both roads at the same time - for all you know, the M6 Free might be completely empty or gridlocked while you're in traffic / on an empty road on the M6 Toll.
Something like a Trafficmaster YQ will show you if the M6 is blocked. Having passed it twice over Christmas a very rough indication seemed to be 50% of cars went on the toll road. Good enough to keep the M6 flowing nicely !
If it is a "disaster" (and I think we should wait 5 years at least before judging that) then surely it's only environmentalists that will be upset ? It didn't cost the Govt a penny did it?
If it is a "disaster" (and I think we should wait 5 years at least before judging that) then surely it's only environmentalists that will be upset ? It didn't cost the Govt a penny did it?
I'd use it daily and miss peak hour jams, except it doesn't go where I want it to...if they don't want it it Birmingham we'll have it down south...connecting High Wycombe to Cobham would be about right.
However, I would want a penalty clause - if I pay my £2 and still get held up, they pay me a tenner.
For that matter, I think we should be able to charge the Heathrow Terminal 5 consortium for any extra delays caused by them building their new shopping mall, sorry, international hub. It's a commercial venture after all so seems fair to compensate me (and my employer if I'm on my way to work) for any time lost.
We get fined enough for going fast, so why can't we be compensated for going slowly?
Rant over, M25 here I come.
AdrianR
However, I would want a penalty clause - if I pay my £2 and still get held up, they pay me a tenner.
For that matter, I think we should be able to charge the Heathrow Terminal 5 consortium for any extra delays caused by them building their new shopping mall, sorry, international hub. It's a commercial venture after all so seems fair to compensate me (and my employer if I'm on my way to work) for any time lost.
We get fined enough for going fast, so why can't we be compensated for going slowly?
Rant over, M25 here I come.
AdrianR
M@H said:
As its technically a Private road, does that mean that it has no enforcable speed limit as its not Her Majesty's Highway..?
Matt.
I think you will find that HM law still applies.
If no trucks are using it then thats a bargain, freeing up the 1st lane to get past middle lane numpties on either side
LexSport said:
if it fails, they'll leave Labour to take the rap for building it.
If I understand correctly, the government havn't built it, and *no* public money has gone into it.
A private company built it with investment, and now needs to make some money to pay the investors.
Seems perfectly fair to me.
....or maybe I've missed the point!
All IMHO, of course.
Karl
Don said:
I am against it on principle.
But I have used the toll road four times over the Christmas period and thoroughly enjoyed the a cruising speed of XXXmph as there was almost no traffic on it...
Since I don't have to use it often the cost is inconsequential to me.
Those who could use it to commute probably won't as the £4 a day would add up very quickly...which is even better (for me) as the toll will keep the local traffic off it.
I don't care if the Toll road doesn't make its management firm any money. If they go bust (i.e. not enough toll revenue to service their inevitable huge debt) then so what? The road won't close....it'll just discourage other private investors - not a bad thing either.
Its win win win all the way...
Your always such a reasonable Chap Don. I bet my blood pressure is higher than yours. I want to buy a tank and run over the toll booths and kidnap the chief exec and demand Blair is skewered on to the road surface. Power to the people.
i live very close to the new toll road and drive past the M42 end at least twice a day. It always appears to be very quiet with only the token lorry using it.
I myself used it on boxing day and knocked about 20 minutes off my journey time from Essex to north Walsall as i didnt have to negotiate town traffic from juncton 5 M6.
The toll is a little dissapointing as it is not a proportionate toll as in France but you have to pay the full toll for any distance travelled on it. oh by the way according to the road owners 1230hrs on a boxing day is 'peak' travel.
Just on the subject of speed limits, one of my neighbours is a West Midlands traffic officer, he told me the owners of the road contract West Midlands Constabulary to police the M6 toll, so be warned ( but it feels great doing 1??mph on an empty road)
I myself used it on boxing day and knocked about 20 minutes off my journey time from Essex to north Walsall as i didnt have to negotiate town traffic from juncton 5 M6.
The toll is a little dissapointing as it is not a proportionate toll as in France but you have to pay the full toll for any distance travelled on it. oh by the way according to the road owners 1230hrs on a boxing day is 'peak' travel.
Just on the subject of speed limits, one of my neighbours is a West Midlands traffic officer, he told me the owners of the road contract West Midlands Constabulary to police the M6 toll, so be warned ( but it feels great doing 1??mph on an empty road)
Surely the scenario is going to be this.
Road cost £900 million to build
Annual gross income based on current usage is ~£25 million
That will rise when they are allowed to increase toll to £3 after 10 million vehicles have used the road, so lets assume the annula gross income rises to £33 million per annum ignoring law of diminishing returns.
Off that has to come maintenance and other operating costs, amount GOK!
Return on capital employed = too small a number to make any sense.
So operating company goes bust OR gets a Government handout.
Virtual fiver says its the latter.
Road cost £900 million to build
Annual gross income based on current usage is ~£25 million
That will rise when they are allowed to increase toll to £3 after 10 million vehicles have used the road, so lets assume the annula gross income rises to £33 million per annum ignoring law of diminishing returns.
Off that has to come maintenance and other operating costs, amount GOK!
Return on capital employed = too small a number to make any sense.
So operating company goes bust OR gets a Government handout.
Virtual fiver says its the latter.
planetdave said:Maybe HM law does apply, but if no-one is using it how cost effective is policing?
As its technically a Private road, does that mean that it has no enforcable speed limit as its not Her Majesty's Highway..?
Matt.
I think you will find that HM law still applies.
If no trucks are using it then thats a bargain, freeing up the 1st lane to get past middle lane numpties on either side
Pesonally I now use it as a matter of course. I live in Rugby and work in the North West, and since it opened I now enjoy a 1.5-1.75 hour trip either way. An added bonus is you don't get to see Birmingham.
My pre Christmas return trip of 109 miles was completed in just a shade over 1.5 hours.
The most annoying aspect of the M6 toll is that, despite being almost completely empty, you still get numpties hogging the middle lane at 70mph. Having to drop 30mph to pass them at a safe(ish) 20mph differential does eat into your average speed
Oh, and some of the bends are a bit tight in the wet. Probably fine at 70mph though.Have to say I used it twice over the holiday and it was a dream. xxxmph all the way on empty tarmac. Worth every penny of the £1 I paid (at night) each way since it must have saved me easily half an hour.
Empty that is, apart from one twat in a Focus 1.6 who insisted on belting past me at full chat (I don't do road racing)n then slowing down in the middle lane till I caught up, forcing me to get past him the long way round, back into the inside lane, whereupon he speeded up and repeated the procedure. Why people choose to (presumably) enjoy themselves this way at high and potentially dangerous speeds defeats me.
Empty that is, apart from one twat in a Focus 1.6 who insisted on belting past me at full chat (I don't do road racing)n then slowing down in the middle lane till I caught up, forcing me to get past him the long way round, back into the inside lane, whereupon he speeded up and repeated the procedure. Why people choose to (presumably) enjoy themselves this way at high and potentially dangerous speeds defeats me.
I used it once, about a week before Christmas and found it great for the Northbound run, straight onto a newly surfaced road, xxx mph all the way to the M6 above Wolverhampton. But all the time saved on the southbound journey was lost when I hit the toll/M42/M6 junction where I sat motionless for 20 mins.
If I'm planning to bypass Birmingham, I want to be on the M40 or M5, not the M42 which is effectively the south B'ham ringroad and therefore full of Brummies 'junction hopping'. Why does the road not extend at least as far as the M40, and preferably the M5 too, then it would be a bypass proper.
May use it occasionally northbound but never again southbound.
If I'm planning to bypass Birmingham, I want to be on the M40 or M5, not the M42 which is effectively the south B'ham ringroad and therefore full of Brummies 'junction hopping'. Why does the road not extend at least as far as the M40, and preferably the M5 too, then it would be a bypass proper.
May use it occasionally northbound but never again southbound.
It must be having some effect - We drove from Epsom up to Cheshire on 27 December and the traffic was horrendous everywhere (M25, M40, M42 and M6) a trip which can take under 3 hours took well over 6. The only stretch of M6 that was free running was the old bit of the M6 through Birmingham (usually by far the worst bit) and the queues started again almost immediately after the toll road rejoins the main M6.
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