my encounter with an articulated lorry

[baz1985]

hi,
(sorry its long and poorly structured)

yesterday afternoon at about 3.45, i left the M1 at j40 (wakefield, dewsbury) going northbound. Reach the top of the slip road as i approach lights going amber to red (reduced my speed), i brake normally and stop at lights as would have been at red for a sec if i had gone through. After stopping looked in rear view mirror and a full on HGV was about to crush me. Luckily, somehow the hgv driver managed to swerve into the outside lane (i was in the inside lane)went straight past the red light and half way onto the roundabout, whilst the trailer was scraping the right rear panel of my car. Parked up on a nearby layby, I get his insurance details. he said, "people don't normally stop there". I state "red light = stop". Smirks. Anyway found out that he had 12 points on his license and had just been to court on tuesday for 55 in a 40. He obviously certain that I would go through at red and he would too as "people don't normally stop there". After I rang the haulage company after faxing them a quote for damage repair from Sandal BMW £400. They say take it somewhere else (cheaper) for quote and they'll pay it (bypass insurance). However, if I get it fixed by BMW they'll go through insurance and (falsely) state that I braked abruptly (when I did not- i was stationary when the hgv hit me). Meaning that excess + 50/50 claim - lose ncd. So i lose if go through insurance. Im thinking might be wise to pick the tab myself if haulage firm don't agree rather than insurance.

Any advice welcome and much appreciated

BAZ

[Mojocvh]

baz1985 said:

hi, (sorry its long and poorly structured) yesterday afternoon at about 3.45, i left the M1 at j40 (wakefield, dewsbury) going northbound. Reach the top of the slip road as i approach lights going amber to red (reduced my speed), i brake normally and stop at lights as would have been at red for a sec if i had gone through. After stopping looked in rear view mirror and a full on HGV was about to crush me. Luckily, somehow the hgv driver managed to swerve into the outside lane (i was in the inside lane)went straight past the red light and half way onto the roundabout, whilst the trailer was scraping the right rear panel of my car. Parked up on a nearby layby, I get his insurance details. he said, "people don't normally stop there". I state "red light = stop". Smirks. Anyway found out that he had 12 points on his license and had just been to court on tuesday for 55 in a 40. He obviously certain that I would go through at red and he would too as "people don't normally stop there". After I rang the haulage company after faxing them a quote for damage repair from Sandal BMW £400. They say take it somewhere else (cheaper) for quote and they'll pay it (bypass insurance). However, if I get it fixed by BMW they'll go through insurance and (falsely) state that I braked abruptly (when I did not- i was stationary when the hgv hit me). Meaning that excess + 50/50 claim - lose ncd. So i lose if go through insurance. Im thinking might be wise to pick the tab myself if haulage firm don't agree rather than insurance. Any advice welcome and much appreciated BAZ

did you call BIB?? no witnesses then your word against his I'm afraid.

MoJo.

[dontlift]

Just tell them ok no problem and that you will go with the insurance route and DO NOT ACCEPT 50 / 50 go back and photo the scene, when you mark out where the lorry stopped etc, and quote the driver "dont normally stop there" etc you should have no problem

[jap-car]

I don't see why it would be 50/50 even if they claimed an abrupt stop. The following vehicle should allow a sufficient gap to avoid a collision in the event that the lead car makes an emergency stop - I think

[Big_M]

Surely even if you did brake abruptly (which you didn't) the lorry driver still has to be able to stop. Although it was a long time ago, I am sure I was told when I was learning to drive, that you should ease off when approaching traffic lights to anticipate having to stop.

This is blackmail. I wonder what your insurance company would say about it.

[xxxxxxrich]

Isn't that blackmail? I should report it to the police not that they will be intrested I'm sure. Don't suppose you can get them to put it in writing?
Does the damage show that it was done from behind? If so it would be hard to say it was your fault, no matter how hard they claim you was breaking. Also the truck will have a Taco, would that not show anything useful?

[Leadfoot]

Any skid marks left on the road by the truck? Go and take some piccies if there are & some more of the road layout, where the vehicles collided/came to rest etc.
Don't forget to report it to plod.
Then claim against the haulage co.s insurance. How eles can you be sure they won't renage on any bodyshop bill otherwise (suppose cash up front would do it, but what about any hidden costs that might come up during the repair).

[elms]

I was always under the impression that in a rear end collision the car behind is going to be ALWAYS at fault? I may be wrong?

[mondeoman]

Bollocks to that - get the insurance co and plod involved. If they cant stop in time then they're not paying attention. I can't think of ANY circumstances in which a rear-ender doesn't shoulder ALL of the blame

[Big_M]

mondeoman said:

I can't think of ANY circumstances in which a rear-ender doesn't shoulder ALL of the blame

Someone pulling out of a junction without looking perhaps.

[andyred]

it happened to me a few years ago, company came up with same story. on that jct(40) there are cctv cameras I would ring them up tell them that I want my car repairing at the bmw dealers and point out that you took photos and there are cctv on that jct. ask them to ring you back with a answer within the next few hours if not I will be ringing my insurance, they have got more to lose then you.driver banned,police asking them questions, I.e checking brakes etc. the wagon that hit me the driver was on the phone at the time,the police pulled the phone records and was going to do the driver for driving without due care if they carried on with disputing the case. company paid up within days.

[Fat Audi 80]

DO NOT ROLL OVER FOR THESE c!!!!

It is poeple and organisation like this that make a mockery of the insurance system.

So as the others say, make sure you get your car repaired correctly and THEY pay!

S

>> Edited by Bonce on Thursday 8th January 15:34

[g_attrill]

I agree with the others - call your insurance company ASAP and tell them everything, including the blackmail.

You could also consider getting a telephone recorder and phoning the company back to "talk it through" again but being cautious not to prompt them into saying everything. Something along the lines of "I want my regular BMW garage to do a good job, why should I make it cheap". And then "no, I'm going to my insurance company" should get them to spill their guts again.

Obviously the recording can't be used in court but it would be useful evidence for you to keep. Oh, don't tell them you have made a recording or threaten them because they could turn the blackmail back on you !!

Oh yes, a colleague had his Supra whacked by a van and the manager called him to offer him £60! When he said a new number costs £500 he upped it to £100.

Gareth


>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 8th January 15:18

[streaky]

g_attrill said:

I agree with the others - call your insurance company ASAP and tell them everything, including the blackmail. You could also consider getting a telephone recorder and phoning the company back to "talk it through" again but being cautious not to prompt them into saying everything. Something along the lines of "I want my regular BMW garage to do a good job, why should I make it cheap". And then "no, I'm going to my insurance company" should get them to spill their guts again. Obviously the recording can't be used in court but it would be useful evidence for you to keep. Oh, don't tell them you have made a recording or threaten them because they could turn the blackmail back on you !! ...]

A word of caution. Although The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications (telephone, e-mail) there is a major proviso in that the recording must be exclusively for their own use. Recording or monitoring (without the knowledge and consent of the other party) are prohibited where some of the contents of the communication are made available to a third party.

I imagine that your insurers would be a 'third party' under RIPA.

Streaky

[kevinday]

mondeoman said:

Bollocks to that - get the insurance co and plod involved. If they cant stop in time then they're not paying attention. I can't think of ANY circumstances in which a rear-ender doesn't shoulder ALL of the blame

Agree with the insurance angle, but will add one situation where the car behind is not at fault - where the car in front is going backwards!

[Shnozz]

if you were my client I would have no worries about proceeding against the insurers of the haulage company and issuing proceedings if necessary. They have a very poor legal case on the basis of what you describe.

[spnracing]

If their case is that you braked 'too abruptly' then they have no case at all, you can brake as hard as you like?

[deltaf]

spnracing said:

If their case is that you braked 'too abruptly' then they have no case at all, you can brake as hard as you like?

Yup, agree. Supposed to keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front.

[baz1985]

hi
just an update.

Ive just been to the garage where the haulage copmany said I should go for a quote at in Dewsbury. In a very shoddy location and poor quality premises- can't trust them. They quote £300. I then rang the haulage company to say that I did not think that the garage was suitable. He was furious (said i had an attitude problem) the guy said either its gets fixed there or go through insurance very eloquently. but the guy at the garage said that the haulage co have an excess of £500. its worth it for them to simply pay £400 to BMW dealer rather than to insurance. I beginning to wonder whether the haulage company have not all that much to lose (hence refuse to pay for BMW dealer repair- maybe they have some false excuses reasons pre-prepared eg. braked suddenly etc).Infact, i know they do as he said that if it goes to insurance their story is going to be that i braked abruptly causing the lorry to swerve, which i did not.. Will they get away with it? The garage guy was a decent bloke himself he revealed that they also have another vehicle to fix due to from the same haulage co.

As for whether the driver was driving without due care and attention- i have no proof. Although Im certain he increased his speed to get through the lights until he realised that he would not make it as i had stopped for the light. Proof from cctv?

thanks to everyone for the help

>> Edited by baz1985 on Thursday 8th January 19:09

[tonto]

deltaf said:

spnracing said: If their case is that you braked 'too abruptly' then they have no case at all, you can brake as hard as you like? Yup, agree. Supposed to keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front.

Oh !

Get in touch with the BiB. If you give them a graphic (but accurate) account of the incident and get them interested, they'll be only too happy to check the CCTV cameras for J40. If they still have a recording then you're home and dry.

>> Edited by tonto on Thursday 8th January 18:57