Derren Brown: How to be a Psychic SpyFriday 25 September
Discussion
Derren Brown: How to be a Psychic SpyFriday 25 September
9:00pm - 10:00pm
Channel 4
3/4
In the third of Derren Brown's series of events, the illusionist puts the theory of remote viewing to the test, a principle that the US and Russian governments spent millions of dollars researching in the 1960s. Brown will attempt to project a single image into the minds of viewers, before revealing his chosen image at the end of the show and comparing the results.
VIDEO Plus+: 4854
Hmmmmm I wonder what he has in store for us tonight?
9:00pm - 10:00pm
Channel 4
3/4
In the third of Derren Brown's series of events, the illusionist puts the theory of remote viewing to the test, a principle that the US and Russian governments spent millions of dollars researching in the 1960s. Brown will attempt to project a single image into the minds of viewers, before revealing his chosen image at the end of the show and comparing the results.
VIDEO Plus+: 4854
Hmmmmm I wonder what he has in store for us tonight?
Steve748 said:
Derren Brown: How to be a Psychic SpyFriday 25 September
9:00pm - 10:00pm
Channel 4
3/4
In the third of Derren Brown's series of events, the illusionist puts the theory of remote viewing to the test, a principle that the US and Russian governments spent millions of dollars researching in the 1960s. Brown will attempt to project a single image into the minds of viewers, before revealing his chosen image at the end of the show and comparing the results.
VIDEO Plus+: 4854
Hmmmmm I wonder what he has in store for us tonight?
More of his same old rubbish I suspect. Prediction tricks wrapped up in his psychology presentation.9:00pm - 10:00pm
Channel 4
3/4
In the third of Derren Brown's series of events, the illusionist puts the theory of remote viewing to the test, a principle that the US and Russian governments spent millions of dollars researching in the 1960s. Brown will attempt to project a single image into the minds of viewers, before revealing his chosen image at the end of the show and comparing the results.
VIDEO Plus+: 4854
Hmmmmm I wonder what he has in store for us tonight?
I used to like Derren Brown, but I reckon he is getting a bit stale now and for a supposed skeptic himself he likes to push the 'woo' when it suits him.
I really hope these events are building upto something.
Derren says he has created 4 events of misdirection, now I didn't watch the stuck on your sofa one but I saw bits of the lottery one and it isn't really living up to his description.
It would be nice if it was leading up to a final skeptic based show on not to believe what you see so readily and encouraging critical thinking. I doubt it though. Pity.
Derren says he has created 4 events of misdirection, now I didn't watch the stuck on your sofa one but I saw bits of the lottery one and it isn't really living up to his description.
It would be nice if it was leading up to a final skeptic based show on not to believe what you see so readily and encouraging critical thinking. I doubt it though. Pity.
Blatant cross post from a different thread, but I would appreciate Derren Brown so much more if he took this approach to his magic presentations.
him_over_there said:
There's a good interview with magician Jamy Ian Swiss on the skeptics guide to the universe podcast.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepti...
At the end of the magic section (about 48 mins in), they talk about mentalism and peoples lack of grasp of psychology. He acknowledges that he is creating the illusion of mind-reading.
This is the approach I would like to see Derren Brown take. Do the tricks, fool people but come clean and be honest and don't take advantage of people by letting them believe in pseudo-scientific rubbish. Don't tell them how you do the tricks, but make sure when they leave they know it's a trick. Otherwise you're just spreading pseudo-science and that doesn't help anyone. Even though he does denounce this sort of stuff in his book as a pyramid scheme and a dirty word, I just wonder how many of his fans have read his book. I don't think it's even in print anymore.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepti...
At the end of the magic section (about 48 mins in), they talk about mentalism and peoples lack of grasp of psychology. He acknowledges that he is creating the illusion of mind-reading.
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
It's my responisbility to speak the truth as I know it, to try and tell people look I'm going to try and create the illusion of mindreading. I can't do it, nobody else can do it and maybe next time you think you see it you should think about the fact that you can't tell the difference if I wasn't telling you.
host said:
I find it fascinating that a mentalists can do what they do, it's more fascinating than if they were just doing magic, the person is actually reading body language, you know, inserting information into the person, pulling information out, you know,
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
No no no, no.
No mentalists are reading body language to tell you what card you're thinking off.
No mentalists are reading body language to tell you what card you're thinking off.
host said:
Is that true ? Is their no body-language or pyschology in magic
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
Well erm, yeah there is some, their certainly is a lot of psychology involved in magic, but if I stand and tell you that... sometimes language.. what's that movie the verdict ? Where they talk about what's true and what's accurate. It's accurate if I tell you I use a hell of a lot of psychology in my work. That is absolutely accurate. In fact psychology is more important in my work in some ways, in many ways, in the end then all the mechanical sleight of hand practice in the world. That is true. BUT. That's different from saying that reading body language can tell me what card you're thinking off. NO!
host said:
OK. Well, I dunno.
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
Here's where the argument occurs. You've exactly hit on the crosshairs of where the argument occurs and it's become very popular in mentalism to use those, what magicians call presentations, it's a device to make the piece entertaining and interesting. I use it in my own work, I have pieces I do on stage where it appears to be about body language and it appears to be about reading people. BUT. Then I explicitly try and say I can't do any of these things and neither can anybody else, if this stuff was real you wouldn't be an audience, you would be a congregation.
host said:
So reading the body language is a diversion, a distraction.
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
Yes. It's another thing, another theme that makes it interesting and that's fine to a point.
host said:
Well isn't it ironic that I said I was trying to tell you what my idea was, I said you know I'm a practised skeptic and critical thinker then I launch right into bulls
t.
t.co_host said:
Well, you're not a magician so you dont know
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
And that's because you saw a convincing demonstration by a talented magician who is putting ideas forward that don't seem completely far fetched. If he said his ability to float the lady was a paranormal power, you would go throw him off the stage right, but you know more about physics.
host said:
Can I ask what you think about Neuro-Linguistic Programming
Jamy_Ian_Swiss said:
Bullst. I haven't seen anything in the way of clinical evidence that says anything in favour of NLP. What I see about NLP, I'm not saying I'm a definitive expert on NLP. Everything that passes for evidence is a self perpetuating industry, a self referential, self perpetuating, self help industry that's created a faux mechanism that you know offers courses, teaching levels and training levels and once they graduate they train other people and everyones making a buck. And supposedly you're looking left your having one though, if it's right it's another thought and boy it all smells like bullst to me.
You know, Ray Heinmen who's here was on a conference was on a select committee, many years ago, in the early days of NLP and they found nothing. I don't see it being debated much in the scientific, clinical community.
It goes on for another few minutes. Then they talk about Derren Brown and his mentalism act and about him using the NLP, body language, reading patter to make his show interesting and how it works because it doesn't seem too far fetched.t. I haven't seen anything in the way of clinical evidence that says anything in favour of NLP. What I see about NLP, I'm not saying I'm a definitive expert on NLP. Everything that passes for evidence is a self perpetuating industry, a self referential, self perpetuating, self help industry that's created a faux mechanism that you know offers courses, teaching levels and training levels and once they graduate they train other people and everyones making a buck. And supposedly you're looking left your having one though, if it's right it's another thought and boy it all smells like bullst to me.You know, Ray Heinmen who's here was on a conference was on a select committee, many years ago, in the early days of NLP and they found nothing. I don't see it being debated much in the scientific, clinical community.
This is the approach I would like to see Derren Brown take. Do the tricks, fool people but come clean and be honest and don't take advantage of people by letting them believe in pseudo-scientific rubbish. Don't tell them how you do the tricks, but make sure when they leave they know it's a trick. Otherwise you're just spreading pseudo-science and that doesn't help anyone. Even though he does denounce this sort of stuff in his book as a pyramid scheme and a dirty word, I just wonder how many of his fans have read his book. I don't think it's even in print anymore.
Edited by him_over_there on Friday 25th September 20:57
"Derren brown uses no actors ot stooges"
However it doesn't mention assistants, which is how he does a lot of his tricks
First of all he has to find out what the image is. This can be done with a thermal image camera or simply a bit of distraction and a bloke with a razor blade.
Then he has to make the studio audience and the vistors see the image. He doesn't. Lots of assistants stuff the sealed boxes with the correct image.
Then he has to make the people at home see the image. He doesn't do that either, just cherry picks the replies that are correct.
Then he has to do the bit with Stonehenge. This is simply done by asking the person at the time a casual question along the lines of "don't tell me what you painted but what did you think of before you changed your mind?". A month later she won't remember the conversation.
Easy
The photographs prediction he did last week wasn't done by implanting thoughts in the persons brain. It was done by photographing all he possible events and swapping the sealed envelope for one with the correct predictions in. The studio audience were misdirected by the audience member getting his stand, and the TV camera didn't show Derren at all as he got his stands from the wings and made the swap.
However it doesn't mention assistants, which is how he does a lot of his tricks
First of all he has to find out what the image is. This can be done with a thermal image camera or simply a bit of distraction and a bloke with a razor blade.
Then he has to make the studio audience and the vistors see the image. He doesn't. Lots of assistants stuff the sealed boxes with the correct image.
Then he has to make the people at home see the image. He doesn't do that either, just cherry picks the replies that are correct.
Then he has to do the bit with Stonehenge. This is simply done by asking the person at the time a casual question along the lines of "don't tell me what you painted but what did you think of before you changed your mind?". A month later she won't remember the conversation.
Easy
The photographs prediction he did last week wasn't done by implanting thoughts in the persons brain. It was done by photographing all he possible events and swapping the sealed envelope for one with the correct predictions in. The studio audience were misdirected by the audience member getting his stand, and the TV camera didn't show Derren at all as he got his stands from the wings and made the swap.
him_over_there said:
I really hope these events are building upto something.
Derren says he has created 4 events of misdirection, now I didn't watch the stuck on your sofa one but I saw bits of the lottery one and it isn't really living up to his description.
It would be nice if it was leading up to a final skeptic based show on not to believe what you see so readily and encouraging critical thinking. I doubt it though. Pity.
I'm hoping that's what it's leading to, he's given us enough hints. Take last week for example, when people were phoning up to say they were stuck to their chair and the 'calming tone' was being shown one of the messages like "RELAX" "BREATHE", etc being shown said "THIS IS A FIRST". I took that as a sign he's having a laugh and poking fun at those who believe this sDerren says he has created 4 events of misdirection, now I didn't watch the stuck on your sofa one but I saw bits of the lottery one and it isn't really living up to his description.
It would be nice if it was leading up to a final skeptic based show on not to believe what you see so readily and encouraging critical thinking. I doubt it though. Pity.
t.Then there's last nights show, it begins with "Do you believe in psychic ability? Can you sense what image is wrapped up behind me here?", then tell us we're all going to take part in a 'remote viewing experiment'. He bangs on about psychic powers but at one point in the show he blatantly tells the viewer "I don't believe in psychic ability".* He's literally telling the viewer it's all bulls
t and despite this there are still people on forums all over the internet who think this is all real! It's mental.ETA: *You can see it on 4OD, at 9min 50s he states "to be clear, I do not believe in psychic ability and my attempt tonight at remote viewing does not rely on the paranormal"
Edited by Oakey on Saturday 26th September 10:48
There was loads of circles within the background also, parts of the railings behind him, pictures on the walls etc.The bloke that could supposedly see through the girls eyes, yeah right, he named all of the touristy type attractions in London (monuments, gardens, lakes ffs!). However the blind fella who clicked his way around was amazing, its really strange to think that he knows no different having never seen a real image in his life. His cycling looked a bit wobbly though!
You know when you're supposed to look into the girls eyes to 'read' her?? Have a close look in the centre of her eyes and you can see she's being lit with 3 lamps. One left, one right and then a halo lamp around the camera. This has the effect of making a circular ring of light appear in the middle of her eyes as she looks into the camera.
mrmr96 said:
You know when you're supposed to look into the girls eyes to 'read' her?? Have a close look in the centre of her eyes and you can see she's being lit with 3 lamps. One left, one right and then a halo lamp around the camera. This has the effect of making a circular ring of light appear in the middle of her eyes as she looks into the camera.
Come to think of it, it was about that point in the programme that I decided it was circles and not a house.Oakey said:
I'm hoping that's what it's leading to, he's given us enough hints. Take last week for example, when people were phoning up to say they were stuck to their chair and the 'calming tone' was being shown one of the messages like "RELAX" "BREATHE", etc being shown said "THIS IS A FIRST". I took that as a sign he's having a laugh and poking fun at those who believe this st.
I hope thats what he is doing as well. My other half and daughter have fallen for all this bullst.t big time. Its fun laughing at them although they do not appreciate being called retards.will be fun if thsi is the direction he is going. I recon I will have several weeks worth of " I told you so"
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