BMW 335i vs Audi (B8) S4
Discussion
Would welcome any views on an age old debate: Audi vs Bmw. In this instance the 335i vs the new s4.
Over the years I have switched from one brand to the other in search of the ultimate driving experince. The thing is that here are many factors influencing ones view of a driving experience.
Older Audis were great on the inside but pretty soft when it came to raising your pulse on a winding road. BMW s always had the well balanced chassis and the fun of a rear wheel. Of late BMW s are now well built and have that wonderful range of 6 cylinder engines, and none more aclaimed then the latest twin turbo 335.
My last two cars have been 6 cylinder BMW s, so when it came to buying a fire breathing 6 cylinder car under 45k, I thought the choice was an easy one.
However the BMW s have always had a weak interior and arguably the latest Chris Bangle designs more then at any time before. It got me to go and sit in a A4. Admittedly the interior was worthy of spending a rainy weekend in! but these cars are soft and over nanny-fied by a sense dulling quattro system. None the less the dealer convinced me to test a S4 with a new trick differential and it's semi automatic box. I could not believe I was driving an audi! The car was a total surprise, not quite as lairy as a BMW but there was 'feel', and in 'dynamic' mode the rear was almost keen to come out an play some especialy when I mustered the courage to switch of the ESP. While the new engine was a revelation, lovely growl and fantastic turn of speed.
So to the debate. My best mate has a 335 and very keen on it being the obvious choice. I have plumbed for the s4 with all the toys including that must have sports diff and flappy paddle box. Did I make a mistake? Build date is not confirmed so changes can be made...
Over the years I have switched from one brand to the other in search of the ultimate driving experince. The thing is that here are many factors influencing ones view of a driving experience.
Older Audis were great on the inside but pretty soft when it came to raising your pulse on a winding road. BMW s always had the well balanced chassis and the fun of a rear wheel. Of late BMW s are now well built and have that wonderful range of 6 cylinder engines, and none more aclaimed then the latest twin turbo 335.
My last two cars have been 6 cylinder BMW s, so when it came to buying a fire breathing 6 cylinder car under 45k, I thought the choice was an easy one.
However the BMW s have always had a weak interior and arguably the latest Chris Bangle designs more then at any time before. It got me to go and sit in a A4. Admittedly the interior was worthy of spending a rainy weekend in! but these cars are soft and over nanny-fied by a sense dulling quattro system. None the less the dealer convinced me to test a S4 with a new trick differential and it's semi automatic box. I could not believe I was driving an audi! The car was a total surprise, not quite as lairy as a BMW but there was 'feel', and in 'dynamic' mode the rear was almost keen to come out an play some especialy when I mustered the courage to switch of the ESP. While the new engine was a revelation, lovely growl and fantastic turn of speed.
So to the debate. My best mate has a 335 and very keen on it being the obvious choice. I have plumbed for the s4 with all the toys including that must have sports diff and flappy paddle box. Did I make a mistake? Build date is not confirmed so changes can be made...
Jhart said:
Did I make a mistake? Build date is not confirmed so changes can be made...
Only you can answer that question, do YOU like it? Did it feel good to you? If so then yes, all the reports I've read have said the new S4 is a cracker. Strange thing though I've never felt the need to ask the above question on a forum, if I like a car, I buy it, I couldn't give a toss what anyone else thinks as it will be me driving it, hence if you like it, get it.Here endeth the sermon
Father cupramax your words are full of wisdom (though less sure about giving myself a futhermore 100 horses to tempt the devil in me...).
I guess I have made up my mind about the S4 really. I feel a tinge of uncertainty as my latest BMW had been good fun to drive, especially when compared to the audis I used to have. The new s4 was a revelation and you sometimes feel like you need to pinch yourself and ask 'was that for real ?'.
US forums seemed to have loads of debate over which car is better between the 335 and S4, with a number of top mags weighing in as well. However I have still to find any developed debate in the UK. Nor does the local automotive press seem to want to take up the challenge... As if it were too sensitive a topic between two epic rival car makers.
I am told that BMW will be increasing the power in the 335 at the next upgrade in response to the 3.0 tfsi engine so it has stirred some concern
That is really why I wanted a debate on the matter...
BTW tyresmoke has a pretty cool review of the s4 so maybe you just need to do the same with the 335. Fuel some of that British reserve into taking a position on two great cars!
I guess I have made up my mind about the S4 really. I feel a tinge of uncertainty as my latest BMW had been good fun to drive, especially when compared to the audis I used to have. The new s4 was a revelation and you sometimes feel like you need to pinch yourself and ask 'was that for real ?'.
US forums seemed to have loads of debate over which car is better between the 335 and S4, with a number of top mags weighing in as well. However I have still to find any developed debate in the UK. Nor does the local automotive press seem to want to take up the challenge... As if it were too sensitive a topic between two epic rival car makers.
I am told that BMW will be increasing the power in the 335 at the next upgrade in response to the 3.0 tfsi engine so it has stirred some concern
That is really why I wanted a debate on the matter...
BTW tyresmoke has a pretty cool review of the s4 so maybe you just need to do the same with the 335. Fuel some of that British reserve into taking a position on two great cars!
I seem to remember this exact test you're after in Evo about 2 months ago.
With regards the gearbox, you couldn't pay me to take any car with a paddle shift instead of a, manual or proper auto. I know the dsg is meant to be great but it's just so unrewarding when trying to enjoy a good bit of road or a good drive. I've only experienced it in an A3 140TDI though. I've driven a Saab Aero with paddles and that was awful as well.
With regards the gearbox, you couldn't pay me to take any car with a paddle shift instead of a, manual or proper auto. I know the dsg is meant to be great but it's just so unrewarding when trying to enjoy a good bit of road or a good drive. I've only experienced it in an A3 140TDI though. I've driven a Saab Aero with paddles and that was awful as well.
missing the VR6 said:
With regards the gearbox, you couldn't pay me to take any car with a paddle shift instead of a, manual or proper auto. I know the dsg is meant to be great but it's just so unrewarding when trying to enjoy a good bit of road or a good drive. I've only experienced it in an A3 140TDI though. I've driven a Saab Aero with paddles and that was awful as well.
I resisted the call of the flappy paddles for years, and sort of had my hand forced to take the S4 with the S-Tronic, but I have to say its pretty good. In fact, I know Im still running the car in and therefore not pushing it, but, and Im almost ashamed to say this, stick the car 'Dymanic' mode (much sharper throttle respose etc) and the gearbox left in auto mode, it is flipping brilliant
Every other flappy paddle Ive used (Audi's previous incarnation (imo particularly spiteful), BMW's, Merc's) I have hated.
Cupramax said:
W8PMC said:
7 speed servotronic.
Your steering has a 7 speed gearbox? Now that is some boast about at the pub... 
missing the VR6 said:
I seem to remember this exact test you're after in Evo about 2 months ago.
With regards the gearbox, you couldn't pay me to take any car with a paddle shift instead of a, manual or proper auto. I know the dsg is meant to be great but it's just so unrewarding when trying to enjoy a good bit of road or a good drive. I've only experienced it in an A3 140TDI though. I've driven a Saab Aero with paddles and that was awful as well.
You are the man! Evo magazine august 2009 does indeed have a test. Gives the victory to the s4, seemingly on the technicality of the better s tronic gear box. But the comparison was in a 335i pre the latest DCT, now that it is available the result may be different. ..Having said that the test BMW did not have run-flats so not exactly the standard item. I have experienced run flats for 6 years now and believe my back could do with a rest especially as my ego has a liking for big wheels.With regards the gearbox, you couldn't pay me to take any car with a paddle shift instead of a, manual or proper auto. I know the dsg is meant to be great but it's just so unrewarding when trying to enjoy a good bit of road or a good drive. I've only experienced it in an A3 140TDI though. I've driven a Saab Aero with paddles and that was awful as well.
Funny also how flappy box debates seem to continually surface when dealing with the S4. Also curious is the comment in Evo that most of these type of cars will feature an automatic box. So what does that say for the fans of a manual box? No magazine has really slates the s tronic to date, and I found it surprisingly high revving before the electronics wanted to kick in. factor in the throttle blip and the aural satisfaction adds to the rationale.
Cupramax said:
Oh and did I mention with an MTM remap and pulley you can have 420hp
I believe that tuning kit was on a manual S4, the DSG gearbox is quite sensative to torque. I know the 6 speed box would limit you to 350, the 7 speed is a stronger item but I'd check with MTM before commiting to buying one if you're thinking of tusing their tune.sanctum said:
I believe that tuning kit was on a manual S4, the DSG gearbox is quite sensative to torque. I know the 6 speed box would limit you to 350, the 7 speed is a stronger item but I'd check with MTM before commiting to buying one if you're thinking of tusing their tune.
You've been reading too many transverse DSG threads , I saw an Audi document on VWVortex when the longitudinal S-tronic box was announced stating it will take at least 520nm (385lb/ft)I was seriously considering the new S4, I was going to swap my M3 and A6 avant for a DSG S4 avant.
I have also had a 335i sport touring, reamapped to 365bhp and enjoyed every minute of it.
Long story short, the new S4 is the best Audi made, the RS4 is better but I don't like the gear ratios on the manual box so it counts it out for me.
However, after having the S4 for a day I decided that for me it doesn't quite do it, in the same way as good as the 335i was it was a mile muncher and not a sports car.
Just to put this in perspective, the S4 (V8) avant that I owned was also the worst car I have ever owned, so to now say the S4 is my favourite Audi ever is no understatement, it is that good.
I just found the RWD BMW more fun, I had a remapped 120d M-Sport at the same time I had the S4, 335i and that was actually a far more fun car than either.
So when the M3 went two weeks ago I kept the A6 3,2 avant and bought another 1 series, 123d, being remapped to 260bhp next week and no regrets what so ever.
Depends what you want from your car, if you want a nice autobahn mile muncher the S4 and 335i will both do it with aplomb, if you want a more sporty car, go and buy an M3 or a 135i and add the performance parts to it.
I have also had a 335i sport touring, reamapped to 365bhp and enjoyed every minute of it.
Long story short, the new S4 is the best Audi made, the RS4 is better but I don't like the gear ratios on the manual box so it counts it out for me.
However, after having the S4 for a day I decided that for me it doesn't quite do it, in the same way as good as the 335i was it was a mile muncher and not a sports car.
Just to put this in perspective, the S4 (V8) avant that I owned was also the worst car I have ever owned, so to now say the S4 is my favourite Audi ever is no understatement, it is that good.
I just found the RWD BMW more fun, I had a remapped 120d M-Sport at the same time I had the S4, 335i and that was actually a far more fun car than either.
So when the M3 went two weeks ago I kept the A6 3,2 avant and bought another 1 series, 123d, being remapped to 260bhp next week and no regrets what so ever.
Depends what you want from your car, if you want a nice autobahn mile muncher the S4 and 335i will both do it with aplomb, if you want a more sporty car, go and buy an M3 or a 135i and add the performance parts to it.
A 135i must be quite bonkers as it happens 
I didnt need a 'sports car' (have a Cerb in the garage which covers that base quite nicely) so it was a motorway muncher/winter car (hence the favoured quattro) I was looking for.
BTW noticed Peter Tomalin @ evo mag now has an S4 for his Fast Fleet entries, so you can see how he gets on with it and compares it to his much missed 335i Touring. Should be of interest to those on this particular thread
I didnt need a 'sports car' (have a Cerb in the garage which covers that base quite nicely) so it was a motorway muncher/winter car (hence the favoured quattro) I was looking for.
BTW noticed Peter Tomalin @ evo mag now has an S4 for his Fast Fleet entries, so you can see how he gets on with it and compares it to his much missed 335i Touring. Should be of interest to those on this particular thread
Edited by FUBAR on Tuesday 29th September 14:00
gizlaroc said:
I was seriously considering the new S4, I was going to swap my M3 and A6 avant for a DSG S4 avant.
I have also had a 335i sport touring, reamapped to 365bhp and enjoyed every minute of it.
Long story short, the new S4 is the best Audi made, the RS4 is better but I don't like the gear ratios on the manual box so it counts it out for me.
However, after having the S4 for a day I decided that for me it doesn't quite do it, in the same way as good as the 335i was it was a mile muncher and not a sports car.
Just to put this in perspective, the S4 (V8) avant that I owned was also the worst car I have ever owned, so to now say the S4 is my favourite Audi ever is no understatement, it is that good.
I just found the RWD BMW more fun,
I know exactly how you feel. Having just made the leap from 330 to s4 I too wonder if I will must that rear wheel drive feel. the shove in the back and the more lairy tail that square you down in the corners. But I did find the s4 far more involving then an other audi I ever owned and the sports diff with active rise settings was a revelation . An s4 without bat just feels like a competent car. But not an exciting one
I have also had a 335i sport touring, reamapped to 365bhp and enjoyed every minute of it.
Long story short, the new S4 is the best Audi made, the RS4 is better but I don't like the gear ratios on the manual box so it counts it out for me.
However, after having the S4 for a day I decided that for me it doesn't quite do it, in the same way as good as the 335i was it was a mile muncher and not a sports car.
Just to put this in perspective, the S4 (V8) avant that I owned was also the worst car I have ever owned, so to now say the S4 is my favourite Audi ever is no understatement, it is that good.
I just found the RWD BMW more fun,
I know exactly how you feel. Having just made the leap from 330 to s4 I too wonder if I will must that rear wheel drive feel. the shove in the back and the more lairy tail that square you down in the corners. But I did find the s4 far more involving then an other audi I ever owned and the sports diff with active rise settings was a revelation . An s4 without bat just feels like a competent car. But not an exciting one
stumpy67 said:
Quattro for 90% of the time is better than RWD.
Try having a tussle with a Bimmer when it's wet or snowy.
90% of the time the power being delivered through all 4 wheels will get you anywhere quicker...
I totally disagree with that, I could always do a stretch of road near me far quicker in my 120d remapped than my V8 S4 in the wet, when I got the 335i that destroyed it time wise, and the M3 was a tad quicker again. Try having a tussle with a Bimmer when it's wet or snowy.
90% of the time the power being delivered through all 4 wheels will get you anywhere quicker...
4WD means nothing in the wet, it may give you an unjust confidence but that is all. It still comes down to being able to trust the feedback your car is giving you as the most important factor I reckon.
Power is nothing without traction. Hence quattro baby. Now for that wild oversteer feel on a track day out with the boys then BMW has the edge. But for the everyday everywhere use I got the impression that the s4 was quite a formidable weapon.
PS Last editon of performance car tested a s4 avant on a damp track and it bettered the 335i by 1 second.
PS Last editon of performance car tested a s4 avant on a damp track and it bettered the 335i by 1 second.
worsy said:
Yup that is why Rally cars are RWD.....oh wait!
But rally cars are not set up to understeer like a b
d though!!! My point is, with Audis you hit the understeer well before the benefits of the quattro are felt.
Don't get me wrong I love Audis, owned loads, but I am not blinkered and I accept they are well behind BMW for driver involvement, the only reason I buy the Quattro version is because Audi have not managed to get a chassis that can cope with the power of modern FWD cars yet.
As I said, when my wife had a 120d m-sport I couldn't keep up on the twisty back roads in my S4 even in the wet, I had to slow down to get the front end round, where as she just glided round the beds with grace because the car is balanced, and that is the most important thing.
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