Is Jensen Button F1's Tim Henman ?
Discussion
No.
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
GingerWizard said:
No.
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
IMHO Rubens is a better driver than Jenson.He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
GingerWizard said:
No.
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
To support the idea that Jensen is a choker, it has been clear that this weekend he has been getting deperate in getting the settings of his car right, going around in circles and seemingly losing his cool in the process. He is out of " the zone " that sportsman aim for, that place of calm where they are supremely confident and where winning is the natural consequence. He was in that place at the beginning of the season, but then there was no expectations that he would challenge for the championship. Now all that has changed and so, it seems, has Jensen.He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
I think the pressure is beginning to tell. The Brawn is fast ( as demonstrated by Bari ) but Jensen has made a complete horlicks of his chances this weekend and as far as I can see, it seems self-driven.
He needs to feel the force, calm down and listen to his inner Ben Kenobi.
I fear that Jensen Button and the F1 World Championship 2009 may well become a chapter in sports phsychology dissertations in years to come.
Was thinking this earlier, ts. I like Jenson, he's a proper Brit. And by that I mean he's just not got the right attitude to win at all costs.
GingerWizard said:
No.
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
Have you been watching any of the races in the second half of the season? You know, the ones where Rubens has been faster than our Jense? As for Kovalainen, okay he's not been on form in the races, but Id suggest that he's unfortunate to be shown up by a team mate that's on the form of his life. Lewis shouldn't have been anywhere near the front in the last race.He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
Frik said:
Was thinking this earlier, ts. I like Jenson, he's a proper Brit. And by that I mean he's just not got the right attitude to win at all costs.
That's a fair comment but I have it on good authority that the team were pretty pissed with RB earlier in the year because a constant stream of errors, on the grid and during races. He has certainly come good latterly and JB has certainly tightened up but he has yet to make as many actual errors as RB.GingerWizard said:
No.
He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
Have you been watching any of the races in the second half of the season? You know, the ones where Rubens has been faster than our Jense? As for Kovalainen, okay he's not been on form in the races, but Id suggest that he's unfortunate to be shown up by a team mate that's on the form of his life. Lewis shouldn't have been anywhere near the front in the last race.He has always been a good enough driver to win the world championship title, he has just always had gash cars.
Kovalinen and Rubens fit the bill of "not quite good enough". Also we dont have a M.Schumacher type of force currently in F1. High hopes for lewis last year that he would continue in his utter domination of F1, alas its not to be. The drivers and cars are as close as they have ever been, just eeking out advantages when the track/temp/moon favours them...
Come on Jenson, i got £10 on at 50/1 he will win the world champ... (placed that bet in oct 08'.,.......
Assuming JB doesn't get out of his poor form, RB will only have his many mistakes and own poor form at times earlier in the season to blame if he doesn't win the WDC.
As for your implication about Lewis, the McLaren is now the equal of any car on the grid overall, witnessed by Kovalainens ability to be pretty close, in terms of speed, to Lewis but losing out because of his weakness during races.
JB is a fantastic driver "if" the car is the way he likes it. when it isn't he doesn't seem to have the ability or attitude to cope. RB has shown he can adapt to cars not quite right and still deliver good solid performances. I hope he wins the championship however if he does there will be a feeling it was lucky one from some as the performance edge they had in the early part of the season was huge.
toppstuff said:
GingerWizard said:
No.
To support the idea that Jensen is a choker, it has been clear that this weekend he has been getting deperate in getting the settings of his car right, going around in circles and seemingly losing his cool in the process. He is out of " the zone " that sportsman aim for, that place of calm where they are supremely confident and where winning is the natural consequence. He was in that place at the beginning of the season, but then there was no expectations that he would challenge for the championship. Now all that has changed and so, it seems, has Jensen.
I dont think Jensen was ever in the "zone"! He just had a car that was so much better than anyone elses at the start of the season....anyone in the Brawn would have won! I think if he does win it will be a hollow title which is a shame. If he wants to prove doubters wrong then now is the time and sadly I don't think he has it in him:-(To support the idea that Jensen is a choker, it has been clear that this weekend he has been getting deperate in getting the settings of his car right, going around in circles and seemingly losing his cool in the process. He is out of " the zone " that sportsman aim for, that place of calm where they are supremely confident and where winning is the natural consequence. He was in that place at the beginning of the season, but then there was no expectations that he would challenge for the championship. Now all that has changed and so, it seems, has Jensen.
Jenson just gives up when he doesn't feel the car working for him.
In qually for Singapore today, it was clear that both cars were understeering. The difference was Rubens tried to wring everything out of the Brawn, while Jense couldn't get his mind in gear.
The result of the understeer is Jenson starting 12th and Rubens planting it in the wall...
In qually for Singapore today, it was clear that both cars were understeering. The difference was Rubens tried to wring everything out of the Brawn, while Jense couldn't get his mind in gear.
The result of the understeer is Jenson starting 12th and Rubens planting it in the wall...
How technically minded is Jenson though? In his time in F1 he never seemed to sort a good car or a good drive for himself, indeed he made some spectacularly (and expensive) bad decisions. Then eventually someone did come along and actually gave him a good car and he started winning, but when the rest of the grid caught up with the good car Jenson seems unable to do anything about it.
Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
heebeegeetee said:
How technically minded is Jenson though? In his time in F1 he never seemed to sort a good car or a good drive for himself, indeed he made some spectacularly (and expensive) bad decisions. Then eventually someone did come along and actually gave him a good car and he started winning, but when the rest of the grid caught up with the good car Jenson seems unable to do anything about it.
Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
Yeah thatTwice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
heebeegeetee said:
How technically minded is Jenson though? In his time in F1 he never seemed to sort a good car or a good drive for himself, indeed he made some spectacularly (and expensive) bad decisions. Then eventually someone did come along and actually gave him a good car and he started winning, but when the rest of the grid caught up with the good car Jenson seems unable to do anything about it.
Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
Exactly, and combine that with Rubens being such a good development driver, and given all the upgrades with Rubens working hard, Jenson suddenly has a problem.Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
Makes for good TV though - my own cynical view is the Brawn were told they could win, but not to make it look too easy so we're now in the Bernie scripted phase of the championship where Brawn have to underperform. I'm sure the winning order has already been finalised so don't expect any changes...
PSSSSST! OP ..... wither Raikkonen ?.... unlucky 13th on the grid! ~ so what's your excuse for him ? ... choking ~ crap car ~ only been on the podium how many times in the last four races ? and with a 2.5 lighter car load today still one place behind Button on tomorrow's grid. Was there any Raikkonen ship to shore comms on BBC's coverage which had there been, and if it was in English, would just maybe had the Iceman shown as a tad frayed around the edges too .... And what of the Fin's team mate in the other Ferrari ..... has he suddenly become a crap driver since getting in the red car....
I have a more serious question for you. How do you think Button would place on tomorrow's grid had he been in Hamilton's car today set up for Button? Comparing on board camera footage today and yesterday, I have never seen Button so actively unsmooth on that steering wheel ever. Compare that to Hamilton's ultra smooth steering in the vastly improved Mclaren.... vastly improved since the early season and almost certainly the best two cars on the grid tomorrow.... Hamilton must think he's on a Sunday afternoon cruise .... he almost said as much in the post-qualifying interviews....
For several reasons it was shame Barrichello put it in the wall today and cut short the session at the last few seconds.... the two RBs were looking like they may have put up a better time than Hamilton's Mclaren. We shall never really know the answer to those questions now.
Roll on tomorrow ... all will be revealed....
Hmmm .... I wonder what odds for a Button points finish .... I'm off to check those odds ...
I have a more serious question for you. How do you think Button would place on tomorrow's grid had he been in Hamilton's car today set up for Button? Comparing on board camera footage today and yesterday, I have never seen Button so actively unsmooth on that steering wheel ever. Compare that to Hamilton's ultra smooth steering in the vastly improved Mclaren.... vastly improved since the early season and almost certainly the best two cars on the grid tomorrow.... Hamilton must think he's on a Sunday afternoon cruise .... he almost said as much in the post-qualifying interviews....
For several reasons it was shame Barrichello put it in the wall today and cut short the session at the last few seconds.... the two RBs were looking like they may have put up a better time than Hamilton's Mclaren. We shall never really know the answer to those questions now.
Roll on tomorrow ... all will be revealed....
Hmmm .... I wonder what odds for a Button points finish .... I'm off to check those odds ...
heebeegeetee said:
How technically minded is Jenson though? In his time in F1 he never seemed to sort a good car or a good drive for himself, indeed he made some spectacularly (and expensive) bad decisions. Then eventually someone did come along and actually gave him a good car and he started winning, but when the rest of the grid caught up with the good car Jenson seems unable to do anything about it.
Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
What gets me, and it came out in the qualifying show this afternoon, is that Button was going pretty well on Friday with his own setup, matching or even being faster than RB. The team THEN decide that for Saturday practice they will change the setup on Jenson's car to match the setup on Rubens's.Twice now this season we've heard him pleading with his engineers about what they've done to his car. Is that 'cos he hasn't a clue himself?
Which other wdc's have we heard at such a loss?
This setup is then shown in final practice to not suit Jenson's driving style, so the team then have to waste time changing the setup back to how Jenson originally had it, "but with a few tweaks". Jenson's only chance of trying this new setup is in qualifying, and of course from the start of qualifying the cars are in Parc Ferme conditions, so if the car still isn't handling well it's a case of "tough, you've got to live with it".
Part of me is just starting to wonder if the team themselves are trying to knobble JB's championship challenge, and that they would actually prefer Rubens to win it.
[/tinfoil hat]
Bedazzled said:
I think there's more to this than meets the eye, how can a team win 6 out of 7 races and then drop so far off the pace? Button will be fine if they give him an honest car.
Exactly.Edited by Teppic on Saturday 26th September 23:13
MGJohn said:
Hmmm .... I wonder what odds for a Button points finish .... I'm off to check those odds ...
11-8 ON for a points finish. Odds on for chrysakkes. Starting from 12th on that 'iffy' track, those skinny odds are not good value...... The other Brit ( I usually back both Brits for win, podium or points depending on value ) is an equally unattractive 7-4 ON for the win .... again on this particular track, not good vlue........ I'll look elsewhere for my wager tomorrow. Such an iffy track, might not have a financial interest.
I wonder what odds they'll offer for a safety car deployment .....
..
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff