Volkswagen group - what's the pecking order then?
Discussion
Chaps,
Reading the Audi/VW thread elsewhere with interest, and this morning I saw the new Leon Cupra on the road for the first time. It got me thinking - what's the pecking order now between the different brands? It's a bit of a conundrum really when you think about it:
SEAT - used to be sporting, but they've now got the old A4 as the Exeo. The sporty stuff is few and far between, but that which they have looks great. Does it compete with Renault (which the Cupra reminded me of) or would you be crazy to buy anything else sporty from VW or Audi?
VW - Really, really broad range of cars; Phaeton to Fox. The latest campaign is all about "like a golf" but do they still cut it?
AUDI - Used to be the pinnacle of high end German precision but is there really much to tell it apart from similar stuff from the VW stable lower down the brand, and at the other end you've got the R8 V10 directly competing with the Gallardo.
Not entirely sure what I'm asking really, just articulating my thoughts from this morning's drive to work. Can all these brands really exist as happy bedfellows, and yet still maintain distinct identities?
What say you then?
S
Reading the Audi/VW thread elsewhere with interest, and this morning I saw the new Leon Cupra on the road for the first time. It got me thinking - what's the pecking order now between the different brands? It's a bit of a conundrum really when you think about it:
SEAT - used to be sporting, but they've now got the old A4 as the Exeo. The sporty stuff is few and far between, but that which they have looks great. Does it compete with Renault (which the Cupra reminded me of) or would you be crazy to buy anything else sporty from VW or Audi?
VW - Really, really broad range of cars; Phaeton to Fox. The latest campaign is all about "like a golf" but do they still cut it?
AUDI - Used to be the pinnacle of high end German precision but is there really much to tell it apart from similar stuff from the VW stable lower down the brand, and at the other end you've got the R8 V10 directly competing with the Gallardo.
Not entirely sure what I'm asking really, just articulating my thoughts from this morning's drive to work. Can all these brands really exist as happy bedfellows, and yet still maintain distinct identities?
What say you then?
S
I had completely forgotten Skoda, but didn't really want to include Bugatti on the basis that they're in a completely different stratosphere...
And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb (bad pun, if unavoidable) so would you be man enough to swallow any lingering brand prejudice and go for it?
And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb (bad pun, if unavoidable) so would you be man enough to swallow any lingering brand prejudice and go for it?
Seat - Skoda cheap, cheerful, sometimes sporty.
VW - Weird image, peoples car that the people can't afford. Basic trim not that well made. Expensive.
Audi - More individual, sporty, luxurious in the past. Now just rebranded VW.
Porsche - Sports/luxury
Bentley - High level GT/luxury
Lambo - supercar
Bugatti - Hypercar.
VW - Weird image, peoples car that the people can't afford. Basic trim not that well made. Expensive.
Audi - More individual, sporty, luxurious in the past. Now just rebranded VW.
Porsche - Sports/luxury
Bentley - High level GT/luxury
Lambo - supercar
Bugatti - Hypercar.
There's loads of overlap. SEAT have stuff like the Exeo and the Altea when they are marketed as sporty, Skoda have a range of upmarket like the Superb and sporty with the VRS models. They function as individual manufacturers and seem to do fine. I'm not sure about the future for SEAT though – I think there is one too many and that would seem the dispensable one.
I see his point though.
SEAT used to be sporty but arguably less so today and with the Exeo they are reaching into new markets. The range is not as overtly sporty as it once was.
VW - Everyman quality but less so nowadays as now we have the Phaeton to the Fox. Also the Golf GTI has been overtaken by the Scirocco but still a desirable badge with good product, but the difference in the cost base is more extreme than ever.
Audi - Remember the cutting edge tech of the 100 or the A2? Is that still in existence? It always used to play second fiddle to BMW and Merc, but now you could argue that they are more desirable than either? But are they a sports brand (RS6,R8) a premium brand (A4) or a luxury brand (A8)?
The difference isn't as clear cut as it used to be.
Skoda Superb anyone?
SEAT used to be sporty but arguably less so today and with the Exeo they are reaching into new markets. The range is not as overtly sporty as it once was.
VW - Everyman quality but less so nowadays as now we have the Phaeton to the Fox. Also the Golf GTI has been overtaken by the Scirocco but still a desirable badge with good product, but the difference in the cost base is more extreme than ever.
Audi - Remember the cutting edge tech of the 100 or the A2? Is that still in existence? It always used to play second fiddle to BMW and Merc, but now you could argue that they are more desirable than either? But are they a sports brand (RS6,R8) a premium brand (A4) or a luxury brand (A8)?
The difference isn't as clear cut as it used to be.
Skoda Superb anyone?
Stuart said:
I had completely forgotten Skoda, but didn't really want to include Bugatti on the basis that they're in a completely different stratosphere...
And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb (bad pun, if unavoidable) so would you be man enough to swallow any lingering brand prejudice and go for it?
If I were in the market for a motorway cruiser and decided not to go for a 5 series then I would choose a Superb over a Mondeo/Insignia or similar priced choices.And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb (bad pun, if unavoidable) so would you be man enough to swallow any lingering brand prejudice and go for it?
Stuart said:
And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb
Couldn't agree more. My dad had one for a test drive for the weekend, and the only reason he didn't go for it was because his company would only allow him the 1.4 engine (!!!!) - but the one he tested was the 2 or 2.5 I think (can't recall). But the car itself - absolutely fantastic, and the price point at which it puts itself really does make it hard not to seriously look at.Skoda have made a fabulous U-turn with their image in the past 5 yrs. Prior to that were the skip jokes, then they started making modern cars and the jokes remained but people started buying them. Now the jokes are long gone, they're recognised as a quality car maker with good value for money cars and sound values, if not glamourous or "executive" like Audi's and, to a lesser extent, Volkswagen.
Seat have, in my mind, gone out of the press a little. They have some good cars (my bro had a Leon FR which I really liked), however they don't seem to be as prominent as they once were.
So, my pecking order;
Bugatti
Bentley
Audi
VW
Skoda
Seat
CaptainSlow said:
I think its to some extent geared towards different age groups. There is sporty and sensible in each product range.
17-25 Seat
25-35 VW
35-60 Audi
60+ Skoda
True, but Skoda will aim younger with the Yeti, and many young execs would choose an A4 from the co car list. 17-25 Seat
25-35 VW
35-60 Audi
60+ Skoda
Good way to split it though.
TonyHetherington said:
Stuart said:
And therein lies my dilemna/confusion; the Superb is superb
Couldn't agree more. My dad had one for a test drive for the weekend, and the only reason he didn't go for it was because his company would only allow him the 1.4 engine (!!!!) - but the one he tested was the 2 or 2.5 I think (can't recall). But the car itself - absolutely fantastic, and the price point at which it puts itself really does make it hard not to seriously look at.Skoda have made a fabulous U-turn with their image in the past 5 yrs. Prior to that were the skip jokes, then they started making modern cars and the jokes remained but people started buying them. Now the jokes are long gone, they're recognised as a quality car maker with good value for money cars and sound values, if not glamourous or "executive" like Audi's and, to a lesser extent, Volkswagen.
Seat have, in my mind, gone out of the press a little. They have some good cars (my bro had a Leon FR which I really liked), however they don't seem to be as prominent as they once were.
So, my pecking order;
Bugatti
Bentley
Audi
VW
Skoda
Seat
I've always doubted any logic to VW's range. I suspect that most of their subsidiary brands have been bought when the companies have been in trouble. They probably buy them in at bargain basement, and throw platform sharing at them to widen their market base as a conglomerate.
Which is why I for one would have liked to have seen Porsche in charge, at least each brand would have had some direction, and perhaps some interesting things and cars distinctive to each brand would have emerged.
Which is why I for one would have liked to have seen Porsche in charge, at least each brand would have had some direction, and perhaps some interesting things and cars distinctive to each brand would have emerged.
Many say brands within the VAG group cannibalise each other...(not including bugatti, lambo or bentley)
All use the same engines, all have base, SE, and sporty versions, and share trim parts. All sporty versions have a 'cult' following, and are all good, which appeal to different people, al la : Audi S/RS, VW R(32 etc.), SEAT Cupra/FR, Skoda vRS...
For instance an Audi S3 buyer may not be interested in a Leon Cupra R (new one) despite sharing same engine and vice versa, this could (and maybe is) a cost issue, but they offer both anyway.
Audi get new technolgoy first, then it filters down to the others - when people critise Audi's they use this info the other way round and simply say they are expensive VW's, but there you go!
For those who want the official pecking order goes like this :
VOLKSWAGEN GROUP
Porsche - Part owner
VW
Audi - Lamborghini
Seat
Skoda
Bentley
Bugatti
MAN (lorries etc.)
Cheers
All use the same engines, all have base, SE, and sporty versions, and share trim parts. All sporty versions have a 'cult' following, and are all good, which appeal to different people, al la : Audi S/RS, VW R(32 etc.), SEAT Cupra/FR, Skoda vRS...
For instance an Audi S3 buyer may not be interested in a Leon Cupra R (new one) despite sharing same engine and vice versa, this could (and maybe is) a cost issue, but they offer both anyway.
Audi get new technolgoy first, then it filters down to the others - when people critise Audi's they use this info the other way round and simply say they are expensive VW's, but there you go!
For those who want the official pecking order goes like this :
VOLKSWAGEN GROUP
Porsche - Part owner
VW
Audi - Lamborghini
Seat
Skoda
Bentley
Bugatti
MAN (lorries etc.)
Cheers
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