Ignition faults & Won't start

[R500BAD]

Can somebody help?

I have owned my Griffith 500 for 5 years and carried out lots of oil & plug changes plus some more technical jobs over the years, all without problems......

We have just come back from 2000 fault free miles around Europe and so i set about changing oil, filter & plugs and as a bonus took the distributer cap off to check and clean.

All done without a hitch and now it won't start. I numbered the cylinders myself and the corisponding terminals on the cap, when that wouldn't work i changed to the layout in Steve Heaths bible, sill no action. I did a bit of resurch and after finding the original coil leaking oil i have changed that, sill no joy but i tested No 2 cyclinder and it sparks. I have a new set of leads arriving today as the current ones are 12 years old.

An other reasons why this should happen????

[5.0ltr]

Yes, you may have done something with your fiddlings, but does the fuel pump prime?

[Chimjunkie]

Does it try to fire or just nothing?

[R500BAD]

Yes it primes, and it is trying to fire. if i keey turning the engine over after a few seconds it 'coughs'.

[Chimjunkie]

Check to see if you have fuel pressure in the fuel rail. There is what looks like a bicycle valve on the drivers side of the fuel rail. Try starting the car for a few seconds then turn ignition off. Unscrew the protective cap and holding some folded tissue paper across the valve, press the centre pin with a finger nail or pen lid. Fuel should spray out at high pressure! (best wear safty specs incase the tissue does not catch all the spray). If there is not much pressure then there is an issue with the fuel pump. If you have good pressure then it is more likely the ignition side.

Hope that helps narrow it down a bit.

Edited by Chimjunkie on Wednesday 30th September 15:31

[R500BAD]

Will give that a try too thanks....

[Targarama]

Does it stink of fuel? Should do with all this non-starting. After your intitial failure to start you may be flooded. Either wait a day for it to dry out or floor the throttle as you turn it over and it should eventually start with some fuel stink/backfires.

[Allandwf]

Timing 180 deg out, is it possible with that cap?

[ATKY]

Had same problem with mine (TVR engine in toyota pickup),which was eventualy found to be replacement dizzy cap was crap quality,tried a genuine lucas one and it worked fine.

[DarkMatter]

R500BAD said:

I numbered the cylinders myself and the corisponding terminals on the cap, when that wouldn't work i changed to the layout in Steve Heaths bible, sill no action.

Which setup are you using now, the ones you marked, or the ones from the Steve Heath book (which do not correspond with my car)?

[R500BAD]

Thanks chaps, I have checked the fuel rail which is working fine and charging with the fuel pump. The plugs we soaking wet with fuel so i have taken them out over night and will attack it again over the weekend.

I had bought a replacement dizzy cap (can't get them 180deg as they are keyed-i had thought of that) and it's loose and generally poorer quality than the orginal one. Will look at using the correct lucus one.

Again thanks for your help.

[R500BAD]

I'm using the correct Steve Heath ones, but the cylinders were flooded.

[GreenV8S]

DarkMatter said:

R500BAD said:

I numbered the cylinders myself and the corisponding terminals on the cap, when that wouldn't work i changed to the layout in Steve Heaths bible, sill no action.

Which setup are you using now, the ones you marked, or the ones from the Steve Heath book (which do not correspond with my car)?

The setup Steve gives in his book is the standard LR arrangement but if the distributor has been inserted with the rotor arm in a different position then the lead positions would need to change accordingly. So, assuming that you haven't taken the dizzy out you should connect the leads up the same way they were before you started. As a sanity check, the only difference between what's shown in Steve's book and what you have should be that the leads are all shifted round the cap (while keeping the same order).

Given that you have certainly flooded the plugs by now I suggest fitting a brand new set of NGK B7ECS. Keep the wet plugs, it may be possible to reuse them once the engine is running again, although in my experience once fouled it is difficult to get them running cleanly again.

While you're investigating, I suggest you disable the fuel pump to avoid flooding the engine again, and concentrate on getting the ignition working properly. You should get a strong spark from the king lead when you crank the engine. You should get a similarly strong spark from any of the plug leads. If the plug leads don't spark, or don't spark as strongly as the king lead, I'd suspect an HT problem in the dizzy. For example you may have lost the carbon brush, or cracked the cap, or got dirt allowing the rotor arm or cap to track.

When you can't see the problem, a passive strobe in line with a plug lead is a good way to confirm that you are really getting a spark. And if you have clean plugs and a spark and fuel and it still won't fire, then after trying for a minute or so try again for another minute or so with the pump disabled, so the cylinders have a chance to dry out.

[Bodmin]

Sounds like the dizzy amplifier is packing up or the wiring to it has been dislodged/damaged when the cap was removed

Bodders

Edited by Bodmin on Friday 2nd October 18:00

[R500BAD]

OK folks my head is hurting on this one now. The car still won't start and to date i have:

Replaced the plugs (and changed again after possible flooding)
New HT Leads
New coil Lucas
New ignition module Lucas

I have checked that each plug is sparking (not sure how powerful the spark is but visable in daylight) the car is getting fuel and i have tried turning over for periods with the fuel pump disconnected, i have left the plugs out overnight to dry the cyclinders, i have turned the engine over with the plugs out. i have flatterned the battery twice turning the engine over. I have rang the TVR Specialist who rebuilt the engine 2 years ago (who i have a good relationship with) to ask if there is the slightist chance the firing order of the engine would be different to that in Steve Heaths book and the answer was no.

This evening I have taken off the mew ignition module to check connections etc, reconnected the 12+ side of the coil with the module connect but the HT side disconnected, the ignition off and the imobiliser set before bolting the coil/module bracket to the plenum chamber when i got the bracket etc with 5mm of the plenum there was a huge spart and short across the gap........ Oh and after turning the engine over with the new bits fitted there has been the heaviest smell of petrol in the garage.

I am now fustrated and out of ideas...........and i dont want to take it to a garage.

Any ideas as i would hate to start thinking of Porsche!!!!!

[GreenV8S]

R500BAD said:

ask if there is the slightist chance the firing order of the engine would be different to that in Steve Heaths book and the answer was no.

The firing order (18436572) is fixed by the cam and absolutely will not change, BUT the position on the dizzy cap where the sequence starts will depend on the orientation of the rotor arm when the dizzy was installed. So if you asked "Are the HT lead positions on the dizzy cap exactly the same as in Steve's book?" then they can't possibly know the answer unless they know whether the dizzy has been removed at any point. If you have fuel and a spark and no life then most likely the spark is at the wrong time. So get the timing checked before you go any further, in particular make sure the lead to #1 plug goes to the HT tower that the rotor arm is pointing to when #1 cylinder is around TDC on the compression stroke.

[bsdnazz]

R500BAD said:

I'm using the correct Steve Heath ones, but the cylinders were flooded.

The first time I flooded my Chim 400 I ended up calling the AA. The nice chap had me turn the engine over on the starter with the throttle fully open. After at least 60 seconds the engine coughed, spluttered and then fired up. I did feel a bit silly.

I've since stalled a couple of times on cold mornings and have had to resort to this trick. It's amazing how long it can take and on one occasion I nearly flattened the battery.

If you're happy with the firing order I suggest you try this trick.

[DarkMatter]

R500BAD said:

I numbered the cylinders myself and the corresponding terminals on the cap

Assuming that you did the above before you changed the cap then I think that you should go back to these positions and ignore the Steve Heath book.

As GreenV8S has said, the order should be the same, but the rotor arm may not be pointing at the number 1 lead when the number 1 cylinder is at TDC, the rotor arm position may have moved depending on how the rotor arm was aligned when the distributor was fitted.

[Jasper Gilder]

I've had similar on two V8's Range Rover suddenly wouldn't start and SX which stopped half way through overtaking

It's a spark unit on the side of the distributor ( can't remember what it's called) which fails at about 50,000 miles. In one case we changed the dissy, in the other the unit and both worked fine thereafter. If you're getting a spark it may be too weak to do anything....

[R500BAD]

I have rerplaced the ignition module but thinking about what a couple of you have said-sorry can't remember your login names and I'm writing this from a really boring meeting! I numbered the cyclinders myself then copied my numbers into the stsve heath diagram and they tied up exactly. I think it might be the TDC of cyclinder one that may be the issue. If I take the plugs out I will be able to turn the engine over with a spanner but how can I check that No 1 is at TDC- what can I use to put in the cylinder to check the position. Or as the firing order will never change can I just move all the dizzy end of the plug caps round one terminal and try? If it is flooded I could get it right but not know.....