Discussion
Don't think this has come up before (did have a quick search)
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-document...
I really respect Sikhs- there ethical codes towards woman, work and life in general is much more aligned with Western christianity (in its broadest sense) than Islam. They never seem to push their weight around, are polite, friendly and seeem to want to integrate. Also have a proud martial tradition going back centuries which is always helpful i think.
BUT
not sure where i stand on this- and wondered what other people think.
not wearing a helmet on a motorbike is fine- they'll only kill themselves and that's personal choice.
But not wearing helmet in a riot situation is a necessity- failure to ear one puts other safety at risk (you can't rely on someone who is not wearing adequate protection)
No helmet= no riot gear= can't police riots
this therefore means that you can't work as a policeman doesn't it?
at this point i'm not sure that the Sikh in question can claim discrimination can they? they have made a personal choice, a consequence of which is that they cannot do the job in question- surely that isn't disciminatory is it?
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-document...
I really respect Sikhs- there ethical codes towards woman, work and life in general is much more aligned with Western christianity (in its broadest sense) than Islam. They never seem to push their weight around, are polite, friendly and seeem to want to integrate. Also have a proud martial tradition going back centuries which is always helpful i think.
BUT
not sure where i stand on this- and wondered what other people think.
not wearing a helmet on a motorbike is fine- they'll only kill themselves and that's personal choice.
But not wearing helmet in a riot situation is a necessity- failure to ear one puts other safety at risk (you can't rely on someone who is not wearing adequate protection)
No helmet= no riot gear= can't police riots
this therefore means that you can't work as a policeman doesn't it?
at this point i'm not sure that the Sikh in question can claim discrimination can they? they have made a personal choice, a consequence of which is that they cannot do the job in question- surely that isn't disciminatory is it?
I agree.
I not only agree......but I find it extremely confusing.
PC brigade get up in arms because he is asked to remove his Turban.
So when will the 'Elf n Safety' lot complain that he wasn't wearing the correct headgear?
This was never a racial issue......he refused to wear the required equipment to perform the job to a safe standard!
The Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Let's assmue he was allowed to Police a riot wearing his turban, and let's say he got injured in teh head during said riot. Bet my life's savings that he would not have hesitated to sue the force for improper equipment provision.
This country is a f
king joke at the moment!! Where is the fking Common Sense!!!
I not only agree......but I find it extremely confusing.
PC brigade get up in arms because he is asked to remove his Turban.
So when will the 'Elf n Safety' lot complain that he wasn't wearing the correct headgear?
This was never a racial issue......he refused to wear the required equipment to perform the job to a safe standard!
The Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Let's assmue he was allowed to Police a riot wearing his turban, and let's say he got injured in teh head during said riot. Bet my life's savings that he would not have hesitated to sue the force for improper equipment provision.
This country is a f
king joke at the moment!! Where is the fking Common Sense!!!They should have avoided it and not send him to riot training in the first place, it's not compulsory.
The fact he moans about panic attacks afterwards etc just shows he's playing the system for some cash though.
If the sarge told him to man up, he'd be justified. Coppers deal with a lot more disturbing incidents than riot training.
The fact he moans about panic attacks afterwards etc just shows he's playing the system for some cash though.
If the sarge told him to man up, he'd be justified. Coppers deal with a lot more disturbing incidents than riot training.
s2art said:
ExChrispy Porker said:
Lots of officers are excused riot training. I was.
And the reason?ExChrispy Porker said:
s2art said:
ExChrispy Porker said:
Lots of officers are excused riot training. I was.
And the reason?ExChrispy Porker said:
s2art said:
ExChrispy Porker said:
Lots of officers are excused riot training. I was.
And the reason?i didn't really bring the topic up to discuss the rights and wrongs of policing, more to get some guide on a lazely swinging moral compass!
Wear a turban, don't wear a turban frankly I don't give a toss.
The real question is does someone who "suffered panic attacks, stress and palpitations and had to go off sick" after being asked - "can you take that thing off" really have the balls to be a copper in the first place?
Mountain out of a mole hill for the purposes of financial reward.
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "no sarge I really can't, its a religious thing and I want my wish respected"
Boss copper: "H&S bods say you can't do the riot training without a proper lid"
Sikh copper: "then so be it - perhaps this is a conversation for the higher ups"
rather than
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "Wah wah wah industrial tribunal, wah wah wah panic attacks"
FFS its pathetic that these things can't be sorted out in a normal, level headed and sensible manner any more.
The real question is does someone who "suffered panic attacks, stress and palpitations and had to go off sick" after being asked - "can you take that thing off" really have the balls to be a copper in the first place?
Mountain out of a mole hill for the purposes of financial reward.
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "no sarge I really can't, its a religious thing and I want my wish respected"
Boss copper: "H&S bods say you can't do the riot training without a proper lid"
Sikh copper: "then so be it - perhaps this is a conversation for the higher ups"
rather than
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "Wah wah wah industrial tribunal, wah wah wah panic attacks"
FFS its pathetic that these things can't be sorted out in a normal, level headed and sensible manner any more.
Edited by dougc on Friday 2nd October 17:20
OnTheOverrun said:
pugwash4x4 said:
this therefore means that you can't work as a policeman doesn't it?
But what if A religion, be it christianity, zoroastiasm of Jediism didn't allow the wearing of body armour (or something similar). Does this mean that religion shouldn't become firearms officers?
This isn't a topic about being a Sikh or not, but a topic of what is morally correct. At what point does a persons individual decisions (ie the decision to follow a religion that prevents certain things) override the needs of a majority, or, as could be conceived in this case, prejudice the majority? (eg hypothetically if 10% of the police force was of a religion that prevented them in taking part in in riots, that means the 90% of the remainder would have to put themselves in harms way 10% more often- the majority would be in a prejudiced position because of the personal positions of a minority).
My personal feelings are that the Sikh in this chap was in the wrong and should have sort some dispensation to wear riot gear. But i'm not sure this is the correct decision to have made.
dougc said:
Wear a turban, don't wear a turban frankly I don't give a toss.
The real question is does someone who "suffered panic attacks, stress and palpitations and had to go off sick" after being asked - "can you take that thing off" really have the balls to be a copper in the first place?
Mountain out of a mole hill for the purposes of financial reward.
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "no sarge I really can't, its a religious thing and I want my wish respected"
Boss copper: "H&S bods say you can't do the riot training without a proper lid"
Sikh copper: "then so be it - perhaps this is a conversation for the higher ups"
rather than
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "Wah wah wah industrial tribunal, wah wah wah panic attacks"
FFS its pathetic that these things can't be sorted out in a normal, level headed and sensible manner any more.
Bang on.The real question is does someone who "suffered panic attacks, stress and palpitations and had to go off sick" after being asked - "can you take that thing off" really have the balls to be a copper in the first place?
Mountain out of a mole hill for the purposes of financial reward.
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "no sarge I really can't, its a religious thing and I want my wish respected"
Boss copper: "H&S bods say you can't do the riot training without a proper lid"
Sikh copper: "then so be it - perhaps this is a conversation for the higher ups"
rather than
Boss copper: "can you take that thing off - this is what you signed up for"
Sikh copper: "Wah wah wah industrial tribunal, wah wah wah panic attacks"
FFS its pathetic that these things can't be sorted out in a normal, level headed and sensible manner any more.
Edited by dougc on Friday 2nd October 17:20
It's an interesting one. As a Sikh (not a turban wearing one) i maybe have a biased view. The Sikhs have a long history in the British armed forces and also in the Police force.
I agree that as a group they are one of the best examples of integration into British society whilst still maintaining their identity. I know many like myself that are as proud of being British as they are of being Sikh.
If you are my age you may well recall the peaceful and dignified Sikh protests in the 70s that ultimately resulted in the exemption from wearing crash helmets. Similar protests allowed Sikh bus conductors to retain their turbans (in Bus company colours) and Sikh construction workers to be exempt from wearing hard hats. Interestingly, the food industry regulations were never changed despite legal challenges- turban wearing Sikhs either had to comply or find another job.
I have to agree that the Sikh Constable in question has played the system. In the old days of the original Turban protests many Sikhs had the attitude "we served in two World Wars in the British Army, we fought the Japanese in Burma and the Germans in Europe, all while wearing our turbans - now someone has decided we can't ride our mopeds to work because it is not safe!"
pp
I agree that as a group they are one of the best examples of integration into British society whilst still maintaining their identity. I know many like myself that are as proud of being British as they are of being Sikh.
If you are my age you may well recall the peaceful and dignified Sikh protests in the 70s that ultimately resulted in the exemption from wearing crash helmets. Similar protests allowed Sikh bus conductors to retain their turbans (in Bus company colours) and Sikh construction workers to be exempt from wearing hard hats. Interestingly, the food industry regulations were never changed despite legal challenges- turban wearing Sikhs either had to comply or find another job.
I have to agree that the Sikh Constable in question has played the system. In the old days of the original Turban protests many Sikhs had the attitude "we served in two World Wars in the British Army, we fought the Japanese in Burma and the Germans in Europe, all while wearing our turbans - now someone has decided we can't ride our mopeds to work because it is not safe!"
pp
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