While there's a digital thread on the front page...

[cyberface]

I was reading the New Scientist newspaper last night (desperately trying to filter the interesting science out from the left wing politics... they were like this when I was at school, then got impressively apolitical for many years, then recently back to lefty 'opinion' again. Bah... but offtopic) and there was a full-page advert for the LG watch phone.

It appears to be a reasonable attempt at a lash-up between a digital watch and an iPhone.



Of course, this is probably more of interest to the Gadgets forum (and I may post a thread there too), but as a watch... the main issue with these sorts of convergence devices is battery life and user interface. Let's assume that battery life will continue to get better, to the point where it's not a dealbreaker.

User interface? The screen of the 'watch' is plenty for telling the time (I'm sure some wag will write a program to display a pixel-perfect rendition of a Breguet tourbillon with all the moving bits, missing the point completely). It's probably enough to act as a basic PIM device. Not sure about the video phone capability - that seems a bit gimmicky really. For 'normal' phone, music player and voice recording use - you need a headset of some sort or powered earphones. Not a problem for this device, as it does stereo Bluetooth. Assuming you are happy wearing one of those Bluetooth headsets everywhere, again it comes down to battery life. Assuming battery life isn't a problem...

...well it's converged most of the electronic devices that many 'modern' people need, into a format that is universally accepted and doesn't require a carry case, a pocket, or the chance of leaving it in the pub / forgetting it. I've watched the phone / PIM / music device market evolve from people regularly carrying around three devices, to two (smartphones, iPod), down to one (iPhone and competitors). But it's still a *device* to carry about - requires a pocket or carry bag, and is easily lost or dropped.

Integrating this all into a *watch* format? The screen size may kill it, but the existing devices on the market (a Spanish firm seems to be popular, though it's probably a Chinese product) take 8 GB micro SD cards for music and data, and phones are easy to integrate. It's battery life and getting the sound to your ears that's the issue - but Bluetooth and modern batteries...

So, if the music player / PIM / phone / mobile internet connection convergence ends up on your wrist, where to place the work-of-art mechanical masterpiece that we currently like to wear? I'm a relentlessly technological person and use mobile technology heavily - and convergence is something I've always enjoyed, carrying 3 devices was always a pain especially when they didn't talk to each other easily. However with everything integrated into my watch... I lose the capacity to enjoy a mechanical watch (would you wear two watches in this situation?). And whilst I love and use technology - I also love the accessible engineering of mechanical movements (you can see the parts working, and you don't have to be a scientist to understand how they work).

I've got a few gadget watches (with USB memory sticks, altimeters, snowpasses, etc.) but keep finding myself always preferring to wear one of my 'proper' watches. If the default technology and communications device ends up being sold in watch format (today it's iPhone sized) then I'll almost certainly use one (unless a 'soap bar' model is still available) - I wonder whether watch geeks hold out and end up wearing two watches? One for art and horology, the other as the working comms tool?

Or do you think the fully converged comms device of the very near future will never end up wristwatch-format? I'm interested to hear your views

[Mattt]

Would be useful if it came with a decent projected input devise, or a really good GUI/OS.

At the moment, you'd probably be limited to this:



But eventually, this should be possible:

[Balmoral Green]

I have had this one for a few years, as a watch, it's OK, as a mobile phone, whilst it works OK with a bluetooth headset, it's not so good speaking and listening to it as a stand alone device, unless you hold it up to your ear.

It has a touch screen though, and all the usual mobile phone menus in a pretty standard format. Texting is good as it has a little stylus that clips into the bracelet, and you can write on the screen with it, and it recognises the letters/numbers one by one.

Battery life is woeful.

[Mattt]

But Warren, you're famous for possessing the world's biggest phone on your belt!

[Balmoral Green]

Still got my old Nokia 9500, but I don't wear it on my belt in its leather case any more

[cyberface]

BG - is that one of the Spanish ones? Tedacos is the name IIRC? (search for reloj movil...)

Looks like they're getting closer but the LG is more likely to be properly usable. A touch-swipe screen is a must really... stylus entry on a small screen would be a right pain.

[Balmoral Green]

It's an M500, Australian/Chinese jobbie.

AFAIK, the venture was a failure.

I cancelled my order years ago, having had one on order for about 18 months, I got a full refund, but they sent me one anyway when it was finally launched. When I contacted them about their error, they appeared to be in such a mess that they weren't interested in me trying to return it

[Balmoral Green]

I just got it out of its box (and a very nice box it is too, a beautifully finished and lacquered wooden one), popped my SIM into it I've got it on charge now.

[cyberface]

Odd - there are Spanish sites extolling the virtues of the M800 - which appears similar in looks as well as naming convention - perhaps these are Chinese-market 'let's see what we can do by bunging everything together' devices, and the Spanish distributor had better marketing skills than the Aussie one?

The LG phone looks reasonably cool - like they're getting there - the touchscreen for 'swipe' gestures, proper (even high speed) 3G data (7.2Mbps HSDPA, allegedly, which would be great if the watch allowed BT tethering), and the 'watch' itself isn't so embarrassingly oversized due to the inability of the integrators to get the required tech into a small space. Well it isn't embarrassingly oversized if you've seen people proudly wearing U-boat, big Panerai, Graham or some of the Werners 'small movement in huge watch' efforts... and given the 'tonneau' type form factor, some of the jumbo-sized Franck Mullers are bigger and more in-your-face than this.

Battery life - especially using high-speed 3G data (tethering on 7.2M HSDPA strikes me as implausible given the size of the battery on the watch, unless it has a hidden battery pack you have to wear on your belt

Here's an idea, albeit an idea forged in an utterly exhausted and also slightly inebriated mind - get the finest automatic mechanical movement designers out there (everyone has their favourites, I'd suggest a collaboration between JLC and Patek - but Seiko have to be in the hunt with the mechanism that powers their Spring Drive) to build an ultra-efficient kinetic energy recovery mechanism. Just like today's automatic watches, that keep the mainspring wound via wrist movements, this mechanism would have to harvest wrist movements in the most efficient manner possible to convert directly to electrical energy. This could either directly charge the phone's battery, or if there's enough energy in regular wear to power the device, then lower losses could be attained by storing the energy in ultracapacitors for immediate use by the phone, with fancy electronics to feed the rest to the battery.

I'd be very interested in knowing (from a watchmaker who has measured the available energy you can feasibly collect from wrist activity) what sort of power one can expect. If it's orders of magnitude lower than the phone would ever consume, then the idea's a duffer. But it'd be somewhat cool to have mechanical watch technology powering cutting-edge communications technology

Sort of like the wind-up radios, torches and mobile phones targeted at the third world (but equally useful everywhere - I have a wind-up torch for emergencies)...

Hic. I think this one's pie in the sky But it'd be cool

[andy_s]

I'll try and find it but I saw an article about a phone powered - ah found it - the Ulysse Nardin Chairman phone. I'm not sure what movement you have to give the phone to get it swinging/charging though, so I'm not sure about the practicalities. If they could incorporate it into a phone/watch it would be interesting, but for email/browsing I think your limited by size, the surface area for the iPhone is fine - I can browse, read, compose (as now) and watch film and tv programmes relatively easily. I don't think you'd be doing that on a watch face (unless there's a projection service attached, but then your relying on a surface and privacy isn't good. If you're not doing those things then do you need high data rates? (unless the videophone feature is primordial)

I'm so drunk I've forgotten what the question is. Night - gp in 4...

[BigBen]

cyberface said:

If it's orders of magnitude lower than the phone would ever consume, then the idea's a duffer.

Unfortunately this is the case. The energy used by a watch is tiny compared to a 'phone, perhaps 10,000 times less. You might be able to get enough to keep a 'phone on standby if you wan*ed like a safari park monkey but make a few calls and it would be stuffed.