Niki & Bernie Q&A - Some interesting Bernie stuff here.
Discussion
Courtesy of Formula 1 website
Q: Niki, if a team principal like Bernie had asked you to do something, where was your limit on obeying?
Niki Lauda: That always depended. But if he had asked me to hit the wall so that that Piquet (Senior) could win the race I clearly would have told him, sod you!
Bernie Ecclestone: I would have never asked him!
Q: So why did it happen last year?
NL: Because times have changed. People were different then - and the situation. In the old days before going racing you would have left information at the hotel as to who would be entitled to collect your things, in case you didn’t come back - so big was the risk to fatally crash. Formula One was for men, not lads.
Q: And today?
NL: Today they almost start as toddlers in karting and by the time they are 19 they arrive in Formula One - and most of them don’t have a character yet. The last fatal accident was the one of Ayrton Senna. Today’s cars are safe as tanks so these kids know their way around in the car, but outside (of it) they are what they are according to their age - kids.
Q: But if everything has changed that must also go for team principals…
NL: Everything has changed.
BE: Drivers today don’t have any respect when it comes to accidents. They hit the wall, shake it off in two seconds and off it goes again. The inhibition threshold recedes substantially.
NL: Bernie, do you think that last year after the Singapore race anybody would have guessed that Piquet hit the wall deliberately?
BE: I don’t think so. Because even with such an action nobody could be sure to win the race, as this incident happened in the first quarter (of the race) and a thousand things could have happened before the chequered flag. It was a completely insane action and a completely unnecessary risk.
Q: So why did Flavio Briatore and co go for it?
BE: I don’t have the slightest idea.
Q: Is the pressure on all individuals involved in Formula One racing that high nowadays?
BE: No. Some individuals plotted that incident, but that does not mean that people in Formula One in general would pick such a remedy. If some people rob banks it doesn’t mean that all individuals are potential bank robbers.
Q: The ‘life sentencing’ for Flavio, what do you make of that?
NL: It is how it is. You cannot compare FIA verdicts with common measures. They have their yellow statute book - I think it’s about a hundred years old. This book is a sort of code of conduct and (anyone) who violates that code of conduct can be expelled from the club - for as long as they like. This has nothing to do with a civil court.
BE: Everybody who enters that club acknowledges their rules. At the first glance it’s that simple.
Q: Paragraph 151c of the Sporting Code essentially says that whoever damages the image of the sport can be punished rigorously. Doesn’t that nurture arbitrary decisions?
BE: That paragraph was implemented because you have to be prepared for the impossible. The Singapore crash was indeed something that nobody would have believed could ever happen. What bothers me is the phrasing ‘lifelong’. You can sentence somebody to 20, 50 or even 150 years, but ‘lifelong’? I have an issue with that.
NL: Why wasn’t Flavio heard at the hearing?
BE: No idea. If Flavio has new evidence - and he said that he has - then he should come forward right away.
Q: When did you first hear of that crash incident?
BE: Nelson Piquet told me about it somewhere in May. I immediately went to Flavio and asked him if it was in line with the truth. He denied it and said, ‘That’s absurd!’ I believed him.
Q: You must have conflicting feelings in your heart: Flavio has been a close friend of yours over many years. How affected have you been?
BE: You have to separate friendship from what happened.
NL: Let me answer for Bernie: he has a huge heart, but if something goes against his interests - his business - he will never forget. He will slap you for that. I respect that attitude. I have only met one other person with a similar attitude.
Q: Who was that?
NL: Enzo Ferrari. He was similar. On one hand very emotional, the typical huge Italian heart, on the other hand a stone cold b*st*rd. I had to deal with both his sides. In the end I had to leave him. Bernie is quite similar to old Enzo.
BE: Ah, so you think I am a stone cold b*st*rd…
NL: Stop, let me speak my piece: Enzo loved his cars above all. Everybody who insulted his cars he fired. Okay, Bernie is no stone cold b*st*rd, but both are a mixture of warm heartedness and stubbornness.
Q: Will we see Flavio again in the paddock one day?
BE: Who knows? For the moment not, because it is part of the verdict that he is not allowed to attend races. If you see it differently that’s your own private opinion. The verdict at the moment is like that.
NL: And that goes straight back to the yellow code of conduct book of the FIA…
BE: But honestly, at the moment it would not make any sense for Flavio to attend races. Everybody would just think: there’s the guy who didn’t follow the rules. Why should he want to run the gauntlet?
Q: What would you do if he were to ask you for a pass?
BE: I would say no. Until he’s proved that he is innocent.
Q: Do you think he has a chance to prove his innocence?
BE: If he has clear proof that he is, sure.
Q: Doesn’t Formula One racing need that kind of colourful personality?
BE: Absolutely. Before that incident he was good for the image of Formula One. Flavio added a lot of colour to the paddock.
NL: I fully agree. All the fancy ladies that accompanied him - that brought a lot of glamour. But this has nothing to do with the fact that he has destroyed a lot with this Singapore incident.
Q: How were the two of you working together in the years 1978 and 1979?
NL: We cheated together!
BE: Never!
NL: We did. Remember the Swedish Grand Prix in 1978 when we were running the car with the ventilator [the famous Brabham BT46B ‘fan’ car]. I won with that car.
BE: Stop. That was not cheating. It was pushing the technical requirements to the limit. You were able to keep that victory. Later on they banned the ventilator. It was much too good for the time.
NL: True. At that time I was a bit stupid. All practice and qualifying I had to drive with a 200-litre fuel load, while all the others where low on fuel. I was fuming. I only made it to P12 on the grid. In the course of the race I knew why: so nobody would guess how fast the car really was - otherwise they would have banned it before the start.
BE: Thanks Mr Lauda. People from other teams came to our pits for a little spying, so I said to (Brabham team manager) Herbie Blash very audibly, ‘De-fuel the car’. So they all were putting their minds at rest when they saw our meagre qualifying time. They had no idea that we didn’t de-fuel the car.
Q: Niki Lauda always asked for the number-one driver status from you…
NL: When?
BE: That was in Austria. Piquet was young, ambitious and very fast. You came running to me arguing that you are the number one in the team…
NL: That’s true…
BE: …but not today I told you. And that’s why Piquet got the better tyres!
NL: We discussed a lot. Always constructive! In the end always the one who obviously seemed to be wrong gave in. We never needed a contract.
BE: We didn’t have a contract?
NL: No. Everything that Bernie said always happened. Ours was the gentleman’s agreement. Those were the good old times.
BE: Absolutely.
Q: Bernie, what crossed your mind when Niki told you in Canada in 1979 - in the middle of the season - that he wanted to retire?
BE: That’s not quite the truth. He told me that he wanted to retire at the end of the season. I told him: you must be stupid. If you want to retire then do it immediately. Anything else would not make sense.
NL: That was typical Bernie. Prior to that I had been fighting with him over my contract for six months - that was always like war and he really showed me who has the say. I told him if he doesn’t pay me what I ask I will go and drive for another team. So when I tried to speak with other team principals they all gave me the cold shoulder - Bernie had spoken to them before!
Q: Niki, could you imagine anybody else running Formula One racing more profitably than Bernie?
BE: Let me answer that one! Formula One today is such a strong brand that it makes not much difference who is running it. There undoubtedly will be people after me. The only difference that I see is that they will do it rather corporate and less entrepreneurial.
Q: Could Niki be a potential successor?
BE: No, he’s much too soft hearted!
Q: Niki, if a team principal like Bernie had asked you to do something, where was your limit on obeying?
Niki Lauda: That always depended. But if he had asked me to hit the wall so that that Piquet (Senior) could win the race I clearly would have told him, sod you!
Bernie Ecclestone: I would have never asked him!
Q: So why did it happen last year?
NL: Because times have changed. People were different then - and the situation. In the old days before going racing you would have left information at the hotel as to who would be entitled to collect your things, in case you didn’t come back - so big was the risk to fatally crash. Formula One was for men, not lads.
Q: And today?
NL: Today they almost start as toddlers in karting and by the time they are 19 they arrive in Formula One - and most of them don’t have a character yet. The last fatal accident was the one of Ayrton Senna. Today’s cars are safe as tanks so these kids know their way around in the car, but outside (of it) they are what they are according to their age - kids.
Q: But if everything has changed that must also go for team principals…
NL: Everything has changed.
BE: Drivers today don’t have any respect when it comes to accidents. They hit the wall, shake it off in two seconds and off it goes again. The inhibition threshold recedes substantially.
NL: Bernie, do you think that last year after the Singapore race anybody would have guessed that Piquet hit the wall deliberately?
BE: I don’t think so. Because even with such an action nobody could be sure to win the race, as this incident happened in the first quarter (of the race) and a thousand things could have happened before the chequered flag. It was a completely insane action and a completely unnecessary risk.
Q: So why did Flavio Briatore and co go for it?
BE: I don’t have the slightest idea.
Q: Is the pressure on all individuals involved in Formula One racing that high nowadays?
BE: No. Some individuals plotted that incident, but that does not mean that people in Formula One in general would pick such a remedy. If some people rob banks it doesn’t mean that all individuals are potential bank robbers.
Q: The ‘life sentencing’ for Flavio, what do you make of that?
NL: It is how it is. You cannot compare FIA verdicts with common measures. They have their yellow statute book - I think it’s about a hundred years old. This book is a sort of code of conduct and (anyone) who violates that code of conduct can be expelled from the club - for as long as they like. This has nothing to do with a civil court.
BE: Everybody who enters that club acknowledges their rules. At the first glance it’s that simple.
Q: Paragraph 151c of the Sporting Code essentially says that whoever damages the image of the sport can be punished rigorously. Doesn’t that nurture arbitrary decisions?
BE: That paragraph was implemented because you have to be prepared for the impossible. The Singapore crash was indeed something that nobody would have believed could ever happen. What bothers me is the phrasing ‘lifelong’. You can sentence somebody to 20, 50 or even 150 years, but ‘lifelong’? I have an issue with that.
NL: Why wasn’t Flavio heard at the hearing?
BE: No idea. If Flavio has new evidence - and he said that he has - then he should come forward right away.
Q: When did you first hear of that crash incident?
BE: Nelson Piquet told me about it somewhere in May. I immediately went to Flavio and asked him if it was in line with the truth. He denied it and said, ‘That’s absurd!’ I believed him.
Q: You must have conflicting feelings in your heart: Flavio has been a close friend of yours over many years. How affected have you been?
BE: You have to separate friendship from what happened.
NL: Let me answer for Bernie: he has a huge heart, but if something goes against his interests - his business - he will never forget. He will slap you for that. I respect that attitude. I have only met one other person with a similar attitude.
Q: Who was that?
NL: Enzo Ferrari. He was similar. On one hand very emotional, the typical huge Italian heart, on the other hand a stone cold b*st*rd. I had to deal with both his sides. In the end I had to leave him. Bernie is quite similar to old Enzo.
BE: Ah, so you think I am a stone cold b*st*rd…
NL: Stop, let me speak my piece: Enzo loved his cars above all. Everybody who insulted his cars he fired. Okay, Bernie is no stone cold b*st*rd, but both are a mixture of warm heartedness and stubbornness.
Q: Will we see Flavio again in the paddock one day?
BE: Who knows? For the moment not, because it is part of the verdict that he is not allowed to attend races. If you see it differently that’s your own private opinion. The verdict at the moment is like that.
NL: And that goes straight back to the yellow code of conduct book of the FIA…
BE: But honestly, at the moment it would not make any sense for Flavio to attend races. Everybody would just think: there’s the guy who didn’t follow the rules. Why should he want to run the gauntlet?
Q: What would you do if he were to ask you for a pass?
BE: I would say no. Until he’s proved that he is innocent.
Q: Do you think he has a chance to prove his innocence?
BE: If he has clear proof that he is, sure.
Q: Doesn’t Formula One racing need that kind of colourful personality?
BE: Absolutely. Before that incident he was good for the image of Formula One. Flavio added a lot of colour to the paddock.
NL: I fully agree. All the fancy ladies that accompanied him - that brought a lot of glamour. But this has nothing to do with the fact that he has destroyed a lot with this Singapore incident.
Q: How were the two of you working together in the years 1978 and 1979?
NL: We cheated together!
BE: Never!
NL: We did. Remember the Swedish Grand Prix in 1978 when we were running the car with the ventilator [the famous Brabham BT46B ‘fan’ car]. I won with that car.
BE: Stop. That was not cheating. It was pushing the technical requirements to the limit. You were able to keep that victory. Later on they banned the ventilator. It was much too good for the time.
NL: True. At that time I was a bit stupid. All practice and qualifying I had to drive with a 200-litre fuel load, while all the others where low on fuel. I was fuming. I only made it to P12 on the grid. In the course of the race I knew why: so nobody would guess how fast the car really was - otherwise they would have banned it before the start.
BE: Thanks Mr Lauda. People from other teams came to our pits for a little spying, so I said to (Brabham team manager) Herbie Blash very audibly, ‘De-fuel the car’. So they all were putting their minds at rest when they saw our meagre qualifying time. They had no idea that we didn’t de-fuel the car.
Q: Niki Lauda always asked for the number-one driver status from you…
NL: When?
BE: That was in Austria. Piquet was young, ambitious and very fast. You came running to me arguing that you are the number one in the team…
NL: That’s true…
BE: …but not today I told you. And that’s why Piquet got the better tyres!
NL: We discussed a lot. Always constructive! In the end always the one who obviously seemed to be wrong gave in. We never needed a contract.
BE: We didn’t have a contract?
NL: No. Everything that Bernie said always happened. Ours was the gentleman’s agreement. Those were the good old times.
BE: Absolutely.
Q: Bernie, what crossed your mind when Niki told you in Canada in 1979 - in the middle of the season - that he wanted to retire?
BE: That’s not quite the truth. He told me that he wanted to retire at the end of the season. I told him: you must be stupid. If you want to retire then do it immediately. Anything else would not make sense.
NL: That was typical Bernie. Prior to that I had been fighting with him over my contract for six months - that was always like war and he really showed me who has the say. I told him if he doesn’t pay me what I ask I will go and drive for another team. So when I tried to speak with other team principals they all gave me the cold shoulder - Bernie had spoken to them before!
Q: Niki, could you imagine anybody else running Formula One racing more profitably than Bernie?
BE: Let me answer that one! Formula One today is such a strong brand that it makes not much difference who is running it. There undoubtedly will be people after me. The only difference that I see is that they will do it rather corporate and less entrepreneurial.
Q: Could Niki be a potential successor?
BE: No, he’s much too soft hearted!
I actually think that Niki could have something to do with running F1 in the future. Bernie's preferred choice of Flavio is now off the cards to take over the commercial side. Lauda has alot of respect, and commercial experience. Hell, he could even go for FIA President. 
I think his no Bulls
t attitude would be good for the sport.
I think his no Bulls
t attitude would be good for the sport.Pretty good interview.
I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
disco1 said:
Pretty good interview.
I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
I agree with the business side of things, but I disagree with the last sentence. How can Bernie still be going on about state of the art facilities when he is perfectly happy to go to Monza every year. Interlagos has better facilities than Monza and that is saying something! I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
Bernie is a hypocrite amongst other things.
Bernie should have stepped away from F1 ten years ago.
Perhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
Perhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
Eric Mc said:
Bernie should have stepped away from F1 ten years ago.
Perhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
To be honest a quick "fPerhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
k Off you old tt" would do just as well. 
disco1 said:
Pretty good interview.
I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
The main problem with Bernie is that he acts as though the fans who pay for it all were a complete irrelevancy. He couldn't care less.I don't mind Bernie, he's got plenty of enemies but I see someone who talks quite a bit of sense and talks direct (when in a position to do so). He doesn't tolerate fools kindly and regardless of what everyone thinks he has made F1 into a massive force. Without him you wouldn't have F1.
People may moan about him scrapping the best circuits but the circuit owners haven't exactly helped themselves either!
He should be contrasted with the France dynasty of NASCAR. They're greedy too, they've made even more from NASCAR than Bern's made from F1, but they realise that it does not have to be a zero-sum game. In fact, the better show you produce for your customers, the more of them who will buy it, and the more they will pay for it. Year after year, they have shaped the NASCAR product to get the fans more interested and involved.
Bernie was a very shrewd operator in the right place at the right time. Nothing wrong with that, in itself. He then, shall we say, availed himself of his propinquity to a certain gentleman who became president of the regulator, and Bernie leveraged that enormously, in order to enhance his personal economic position.
In other words, the vast bulk of Bernie's economic success came not because he increased the intrinsic appeal of his product (the way the Frances have done), but came from his exploiting (and, indeed, greatly abusing) a monopolist position.
If he had, at the same time that he was exploiting his position, done much to improve the show, that would be fair enough. The fact that, whilst he was taking out so much, he has put back so little, is not something to be proud of.
We've now got less good racing, at worse venues, in the wrong places, at exorbitant prices. Thanks, Berns - well done!
flemke said:
The main problem with Bernie is that he acts as though the fans who pay for it all were a complete irrelevancy. He couldn't care less.
He should be contrasted with the France dynasty of NASCAR.
Maybe that's the problem though. There is no Ecclestone dynasty. The fruit of his loins aren't too interested in business, just in spending Daddy's money.He should be contrasted with the France dynasty of NASCAR.
And the wife is probably glad to be rid of him.
He's a near-80 year old who has enough money to stick two fingers up to EVERYBODY. All the teams, the fans, CVC, everyone. We all know he's a ruthless conniving little ball of sh'te, but the fact that he appears to care less is, I think, irrelevant. The one's we really need to take a contract out on are Mosley and Todt...
Project 644 said:
Eric Mc said:
Bernie should have stepped away from F1 ten years ago.
Perhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
To be honest a quick "fPerhaps the quote from Oliver Cromwell - and also used to urge Neville Chamberlain to step down in 1940 - might be appropriate -
"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."
k Off you old tt" would do just as well. Wanta996Gotta said:
Q: Will we see Flavio again in the paddock one day?
BE: Who knows? For the moment not, because it is part of the verdict that he is not allowed to attend races. If you see it differently that’s your own private opinion. The verdict at the moment is like that.
NL: And that goes straight back to the yellow code of conduct book of the FIA…
[b]BE: But honestly, at the moment it would not make any sense for Flavio to attend races. Everybody would
just think: there’s the guy who didn’t follow the rules. Why should he want to run the gauntlet?[/b]
Q: Doesn’t Formula One racing need that kind of colourful personality?
BE: Absolutely. Before that incident he was good for the image of Formula One. Flavio added a lot of colour to the paddock.
NL: I fully agree. All the fancy ladies that accompanied him - that brought a lot of glamour. But this has nothing to do with the fact that he has destroyed a lot with this Singapore incident.
How does Max not rate a mention at this point of the interview? I'd say he brought some fancy ladies to the sport - though not sure about glamorous - and he definitely both disregarded the code of conduct and 'ran' the gauntlet.BE: Who knows? For the moment not, because it is part of the verdict that he is not allowed to attend races. If you see it differently that’s your own private opinion. The verdict at the moment is like that.
NL: And that goes straight back to the yellow code of conduct book of the FIA…
[b]BE: But honestly, at the moment it would not make any sense for Flavio to attend races. Everybody would
just think: there’s the guy who didn’t follow the rules. Why should he want to run the gauntlet?[/b]
Q: Doesn’t Formula One racing need that kind of colourful personality?
BE: Absolutely. Before that incident he was good for the image of Formula One. Flavio added a lot of colour to the paddock.
NL: I fully agree. All the fancy ladies that accompanied him - that brought a lot of glamour. But this has nothing to do with the fact that he has destroyed a lot with this Singapore incident.
Wanta996Gotta said:
NL: We never needed a contract.
BE: We didn’t have a contract?
NL: No. Everything that Bernie said always happened. Ours was the gentleman’s agreement. Those were the good old times.
BE: Absolutely.
. . .
NL: That was typical Bernie. Prior to that I had been fighting with him over my contract for six months - that was always like war and he really showed me who has the say. I told him if he doesn’t pay me what I ask I will go and drive for another team. So when I tried to speak with other team principals they all gave me the cold shoulder - Bernie had spoken to them before!
BE: We didn’t have a contract?
NL: No. Everything that Bernie said always happened. Ours was the gentleman’s agreement. Those were the good old times.
BE: Absolutely.
. . .
NL: That was typical Bernie. Prior to that I had been fighting with him over my contract for six months - that was always like war and he really showed me who has the say. I told him if he doesn’t pay me what I ask I will go and drive for another team. So when I tried to speak with other team principals they all gave me the cold shoulder - Bernie had spoken to them before!
uh...?
the team principals dont slag off Bernie because hes turned them and their companies in global household names with hundreds of employees and huge wealth and resources. Frank williams used to drag GP cars on a trailer behing a Cortina, sure he appreciates what Bernie, for all his caniving, has done. To be as successful as Bernie you have to be ruthless, dont tell me Branson, Donald Trump and Bill Gates all kiss babies, hug trees, never fire anyone unjustly or throw a paddy on occasion, thats boll*x.
as for improving the show, cant argue that this season we have seen some cracking racing, huge spectacle, entertainment and a good 'ol dose of scandal. How would you like to see it 'improved'?
its not the gladitorial sport that fangio and Moss enjoyed, but then we are living in the 50's now either. Drivers dont routinely die each year from horrific, avoidable injuries. Progress happens as does harping on about the good old days... think its called aging
as for improving the show, cant argue that this season we have seen some cracking racing, huge spectacle, entertainment and a good 'ol dose of scandal. How would you like to see it 'improved'?
its not the gladitorial sport that fangio and Moss enjoyed, but then we are living in the 50's now either. Drivers dont routinely die each year from horrific, avoidable injuries. Progress happens as does harping on about the good old days... think its called aging
[quote=flemke]In other words, the vast bulk of Bernie's economic success came not because he increased the intrinsic appeal of his product (the way the Frances have done), but came from his exploiting (and, indeed, greatly abusing) a monopolist position.[quote]
But is a key part of being in a monopolistic (is there such a word?!) position not to exploit it? You have to KIND OF admire Bernie though - both he and spanky are top of the heap in F1, yet only one of them has been forced out. Youve got to be a pretty smart person to avoid that happening. That or obscenely rich...Lets face it, Bernie can offer teams/individuals "real" incentives to let him remain in f1. Spanky can merely offer his o.a.p discount card to the local knocking shop to those vuagely intersted enough in letting him stay as FIA supremo...
But is a key part of being in a monopolistic (is there such a word?!) position not to exploit it? You have to KIND OF admire Bernie though - both he and spanky are top of the heap in F1, yet only one of them has been forced out. Youve got to be a pretty smart person to avoid that happening. That or obscenely rich...Lets face it, Bernie can offer teams/individuals "real" incentives to let him remain in f1. Spanky can merely offer his o.a.p discount card to the local knocking shop to those vuagely intersted enough in letting him stay as FIA supremo...
CNHSS1 said:
the team principals dont slag off Bernie because hes turned them and their companies in global household names with hundreds of employees and huge wealth and resources. Frank williams used to drag GP cars on a trailer behing a Cortina, sure he appreciates what Bernie, for all his caniving, has done. To be as successful as Bernie you have to be ruthless, dont tell me Branson, Donald Trump and Bill Gates all kiss babies, hug trees, never fire anyone unjustly or throw a paddy on occasion, thats boll*x.
as for improving the show, cant argue that this season we have seen some cracking racing, huge spectacle, entertainment and a good 'ol dose of scandal. How would you like to see it 'improved'?
its not the gladitorial sport that fangio and Moss enjoyed, but then we are living in the 50's now either. Drivers dont routinely die each year from horrific, avoidable injuries. Progress happens as does harping on about the good old days... think its called aging
This is the number of racing overtakes per season in F1:as for improving the show, cant argue that this season we have seen some cracking racing, huge spectacle, entertainment and a good 'ol dose of scandal. How would you like to see it 'improved'?
its not the gladitorial sport that fangio and Moss enjoyed, but then we are living in the 50's now either. Drivers dont routinely die each year from horrific, avoidable injuries. Progress happens as does harping on about the good old days... think its called aging
(with thanks to "DOF_power", and copied from http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=11... )
So, far from arresting and reversing the decline of overtaking in F1, Bernie and Max have presided over its worsening.
What exactly have Bernie and Max done for F1?
- no US GP
- no Canadian GP
- no French GP
- no Imola
- German GP in doubt
- Belgian GP in doubt
- Japanese GP in doubt
- British GP in doubt
Ticket prices off the charts.
No access to drivers.
No F1 video allowed on the Internet.
Two-car race at Indianapolis, emasculated V8 engines, spec tyre, multiple scandals, EU formal investigation and sanctions...
But we do have a race at a poxy industrial estate in Spain, two races in desert wastelands, and another race in the world's most populous country...except there's not enough interest to half-fill the stands there.
Great.
You don't have to be nostalgic about the good old days to recognise that the present day version is 5hit.
You mention safety. It is certainly true that F1 racing is safer now than it was 20 years ago, as is sports car racing, touring car racing, IndyCar racing, NASCAR, rallying...so let's not get carried away with ourselves in lauding Bernie and Max's singular devotion to driver safety.
As for ruthless businessmen's kissing babies, I think you will find that Bill Gates has given 35 BILLION dollars to charity.
And big man Bernie has donated...let's see...it must be here somewhere...Ecclestone Founda...no...Ecclestone Hospit...no...Ecclestone Scho...no...hmmm...oh, wait! Here it is. I stand corrected. In 1997, Mr Bernard Charles Ecclestone donated the sum of £1,000,000 to the newly...elected...Labou...
Oops.
flemke said:
[
This is the number of racing overtakes per season in F1:
(with thanks to "DOF_power", and copied from http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=11... )
So, far from arresting and reversing the decline of overtaking in F1, Bernie and Max have presided over its worsening.
What exactly have Bernie and Max done for F1?
- no US GP
- no Canadian GP
- no French GP
- no Imola
- German GP in doubt
- Belgian GP in doubt
- Japanese GP in doubt
- British GP in doubt
Ticket prices off the charts.
No access to drivers.
No F1 video allowed on the Internet.
Two-car race at Indianapolis, emasculated V8 engines, spec tyre, multiple scandals, EU formal investigation and sanctions...
But we do have a race at a poxy industrial estate in Spain, two races in desert wastelands, and another race in the world's most populous country...except there's not enough interest to half-fill the stands there.
Great.
You don't have to be nostalgic about the good old days to recognise that the present day version is 5hit.
You mention safety. It is certainly true that F1 racing is safer now than it was 20 years ago, as is sports car racing, touring car racing, IndyCar racing, NASCAR, rallying...so let's not get carried away with ourselves in lauding Bernie and Max's singular devotion to driver safety.
As for ruthless businessmen's kissing babies, I think you will find that Bill Gates has given 35 BILLION dollars to charity.
And big man Bernie has donated...let's see...it must be here somewhere...Ecclestone Founda...no...Ecclestone Hospit...no...Ecclestone Scho...no...hmmm...oh, wait! Here it is. I stand corrected. In 1997, Mr Bernard Charles Ecclestone donated the sum of £1,000,000 to the newly...elected...Labou...
Oops.
Blimey flemke, thats some reply! This is the number of racing overtakes per season in F1:
(with thanks to "DOF_power", and copied from http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=11... )
So, far from arresting and reversing the decline of overtaking in F1, Bernie and Max have presided over its worsening.
What exactly have Bernie and Max done for F1?
- no US GP
- no Canadian GP
- no French GP
- no Imola
- German GP in doubt
- Belgian GP in doubt
- Japanese GP in doubt
- British GP in doubt
Ticket prices off the charts.
No access to drivers.
No F1 video allowed on the Internet.
Two-car race at Indianapolis, emasculated V8 engines, spec tyre, multiple scandals, EU formal investigation and sanctions...
But we do have a race at a poxy industrial estate in Spain, two races in desert wastelands, and another race in the world's most populous country...except there's not enough interest to half-fill the stands there.
Great.
You don't have to be nostalgic about the good old days to recognise that the present day version is 5hit.
You mention safety. It is certainly true that F1 racing is safer now than it was 20 years ago, as is sports car racing, touring car racing, IndyCar racing, NASCAR, rallying...so let's not get carried away with ourselves in lauding Bernie and Max's singular devotion to driver safety.
As for ruthless businessmen's kissing babies, I think you will find that Bill Gates has given 35 BILLION dollars to charity.
And big man Bernie has donated...let's see...it must be here somewhere...Ecclestone Founda...no...Ecclestone Hospit...no...Ecclestone Scho...no...hmmm...oh, wait! Here it is. I stand corrected. In 1997, Mr Bernard Charles Ecclestone donated the sum of £1,000,000 to the newly...elected...Labou...
Oops.
OK, let me qualify my (possibly too light hearted) comments. I have found this season more interesting than many (not all, lets not get silly now) and enjoy the F1 scandals to be honest.
i wasnt saying bernie, max or anyone else in F1 is fantastic, just merely that if you believe some of the sentiments on here you would believe they are Genghis Kahn, Damien and Satan all reincarnated.
i didnt mention charitable donations, that was your tangent Sir, but if what you say is true regarding Bernies charitable contributions, yes he is a tight wad!
i think the tracks comment is harsh, Silverstone 40 or even 20 years ago, was a draughty airfield in Northampton with 'orrible loos and food that animals would refuse, not exactly changed much these days lol. Just because a circuits been around for years doesnt actually make it good, people just dont like change. If Spains an industrial estate, then is monaco more worthy? for most of the year its a town basically, especially during the 'off' season when tourism is very low. If the race there didnt exist and was proposed today, the proposal would get laughed out of the place!
i wasnt suggesting that bernie or max were personally responsible for the safety increases, just that F1 of yesteryear was a bloodbath but is safer now (fact, not conjecture). if you want to pick an individual, Sid Watkins for me is one thats done a lot for F1 safety, but you have to say that the dollars that are in modern F1 do make it possible to make the advances in driver and spectator safety, and Bernie has had a hand in that. Even if i could replace my 300quid helmet with a safer Shuberth (sp?) then i couldnt afford the 80k price tag, whereas F1 scene can. Top level motor sport will always push the limits of rules, performance and safety (and i wouldnt have it any other way personally), but i wasnt implying its purely an F1 push.
The emascualted engines etc comments do make sense ultimately as a spectator trackside. There have often been threads on various sites regarding what the ultimate unrestricted F1 car would look and perform like. Given the speeds, both straightline and cornering and the forces involved, spectators would have to be at least 1/2 mile from the track side in case of flying debris should a failure occur. Most of us, im sure yourself included, like to hear, feel, smell and be part of the motor racing we witness, and unrestricted engines and cars just woudlnt allow this on any of the tracks that we hold so dear. In fact the only ones that could possibly be safe enough are those in the middle of a desert, miles from anywherem, sound familiar... (think pod racing in Star Wars
)everyone raves over Festival of Speed with its few straw bales for protecetion of drivers and spectators alike, but it ill be closed down in a heartbeat if a car enters the crowd and kills someone. We have to be pragmatic about car performances if we still wish to watch them close up in the same way as we do now imho.
i dont often post in this section, and unlike others im not here to troll, play devils advocate or blow smoke up anyones a5se, my views were genuine, if a little 'glass half full'. Ive enjoyed many of youre well written and well informed posts flemke, but in this instance we will have to, er, not disagree, but view the subject from differing persepctives
cheers
Craig
flemke said:
Stuff about overtaking
Not sure you can compare overtaking in the 80's to todays racing. As Brundle has mentioned quite a few times, when he raced there was up to 10 seconds pace difference per lap from P1 to the gutted chap at the back driving an ox, ok, he didn't mention the ox!Anyway, the cars were so different in pace you are going to overtake a damn sight more than today when fractions of a second split the pack.
F1 today is more competative then it has ever been, the glory days weren't that special.
Edited by disco1 on Thursday 8th October 15:33
Good thread and a great interview, thanks for that Wannagotta. 
To learn more about how f1 was different for the drivers in the period we're talking of, and to see a bit more of how Bernie operated, there is an absolutely superb article in this month's MotorSport magazine about the last time BMW were in f1, when they supplied engines to bernie when he owned the Brabham team. In that article you will learn a lot about Nelson Piquet snr. There is more to that guy than meets the eye.
It is a super article, i urge all F1 fans to read it.
To learn more about how f1 was different for the drivers in the period we're talking of, and to see a bit more of how Bernie operated
, there is an absolutely superb article in this month's MotorSport magazine about the last time BMW were in f1, when they supplied engines to bernie when he owned the Brabham team. In that article you will learn a lot about Nelson Piquet snr. There is more to that guy than meets the eye. It is a super article, i urge all F1 fans to read it.
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