'Pride of Britain' awards 2009

[monthefish]

Could somebody explain to me why that ex-con chap got an award?

There are thousands of other people in the UK helping troubled youths, but most of them don't have such an extensive criminal past, and therfore weren't a burden on society in the first place, so surely they are far more deserving of an award?

As I saw it, he was just paying back a debt to society, so why honour him for that?

It seemed like a modern-day version of 'the prodigal son' to me.

[patmahe]

To show others that redemption is possible and that if you choose to make a valid contribution to society rather than be a sponge, you will earn the respect of others in society.

I think thats a good message to send out. Better this than to continue on the path he was on.

[monthefish]

patmahe said:

To show others that redemption is possible and that if you choose to make a valid contribution to society rather than be a sponge, you will earn the respect of others in society.

I think thats a good message to send out. Better this than to continue on the path he was on.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't honestly believe there are that many criminal junkies sitting at home watching the program, and then taking this story as the inspiration/catalyst for them wanting to change.

[BarnatosGhost]

monthefish said:

patmahe said:

To show others that redemption is possible and that if you choose to make a valid contribution to society rather than be a sponge, you will earn the respect of others in society.

I think thats a good message to send out. Better this than to continue on the path he was on.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't honestly believe there are that many criminal junkies sitting at home watching the program, and then taking this story as the inspiration/catalyst for them wanting to change.

Most criminal junkies aren't happy to be a criminal junkie. This is the kind of thing that helps them out of it. Well done to the fella.

It seems once you're on the wrong side, you aren't welcome back on the right side?

[monthefish]

BarnatosGhost said:

monthefish said:

patmahe said:

To show others that redemption is possible and that if you choose to make a valid contribution to society rather than be a sponge, you will earn the respect of others in society.

I think thats a good message to send out. Better this than to continue on the path he was on.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't honestly believe there are that many criminal junkies sitting at home watching the program, and then taking this story as the inspiration/catalyst for them wanting to change.

Most criminal junkies aren't happy to be a criminal junkie. This is the kind of thing that helps them out of it. Well done to the fella.

It seems once you're on the wrong side, you aren't welcome back on the right side?

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

[elster]

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

[bonsai]

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

They can be given a pat on the back but not lauded like Mother Theresa.

[elster]

bonsai said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

They can be given a pat on the back but not lauded like Mother Theresa.

So you can only say thanks quietly.

Does everyone have the same view of once a criminal, never return to society?

[BarnatosGhost]

bonsai said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

They can be given a pat on the back but not lauded like Mother Theresa.

Its not really about the specific guy in question, its about showing the losers at home who'd love to turn their lives around that it can be done. The ends justify the means, for me.

Of course its not as brave as the young girl who jumped in the bath, but it is certainly worth telling the world about.

(What were you expecting from the Pride of Britain awards, given its agenda?)

[escargot]

More importantly... Vorderman... god yes.

[bonsai]

BarnatosGhost said:

(What were you expecting from the Pride of Britain awards, given its agenda?)

Carol Vorderman in a low cut number.

I do find it distatesful that people who have made others' lives miserable and who then turn over a leaf are praised soo much for it.

But if there's just one junky thief watching this on his stolen TV who, as a result, decides to turn his life around then I guess it would have been worth it.

[BarnatosGhost]

bonsai said:

BarnatosGhost said:

(What were you expecting from the Pride of Britain awards, given its agenda?)

Carol Vorderman in a low cut number.

I do find it distatesful that people who have made others' lives miserable and who then turn over a leaf are praised soo much for it.

But if there's just one junky thief watching this on his stolen TV who, as a result, decides to turn his life around then I guess it would have been worth it.

Fair enough.

Vorders. Mmmm.

[monthefish]

bonsai said:

I do find it distatesful that people who have made others' lives miserable and who then turn over a leaf are praised soo much for it.

[monthefish]

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

Yes.

And certainly should not given an award for doing so.

[BarnatosGhost]

monthefish said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

Yes.

And certainly should not given an award for doing so.

The work the chap is doing now is meritorious of an award regardless of his history. The fact that he's now contributing financially in a small way and socially in a huge way, instead of soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time is a huge result.

I'm not defending criminals - I'm speaking for junkies. You simply cannot beat the drug problem by locking it up and trying to physically remove it from view. The hard-line just doesn't work. As difficult as it is for the socially conservative to embrace, the softly softly approach is the only one that'll save society money and hardship in the long-run.

If he feels good that he won an award, and if people from his 'old life' are inspired by his story and one or two manage to cross the line, then whats the problem? We're richer as a result, and less likely to have our TV nicked.

[matchmaker]

escargot said:

More importantly... Vorderman... god yes.

Pass the Kleenex

[monthefish]

BarnatosGhost said:

monthefish said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

Yes.

And certainly should not given an award for doing so.

The work the chap is doing now is meritorious of an award regardless of his history.

How any more-so than the many thousands who are doing the same good work but weren't a criminal junkie in the first place? (This is the bit I don't understand).

BarnatosGhost said:

The fact that he's now contributing financially in a small way and socially in a huge way, instead of soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time is a huge result.

Again, totally agree........but decent human beings don't soak up 'enormous amounts of police and court time' in the first place.

BarnatosGhost said:

I'm speaking for junkies. You simply cannot beat the drug problem by locking it up and trying to physically remove it from view. The hard-line just doesn't work. As difficult as it is for the socially conservative to embrace, the softly softly approach is the only one that'll save society money and hardship in the long-run.

You may very well be right, but that is a different discussion.

BarnatosGhost said:

If he feels good that he won an award, and if people from his 'old life' are inspired by his story and one or two manage to cross the line, then whats the problem? We're richer as a result, and less likely to have our TV nicked.

Again, yes, good result. But its still a bit of a kick in the teeth for the many hundereds of people in the UK who do similar good work, who did so from the outset (without the aforementioned 'soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time' and 'making others lives miserable') but get bugger all recognition for it. The only difference with this chap was he was a junkie criminal first before he started doing some good. Hardly worth of such an award on that basis, is it?

[elster]

monthefish said:

Again, yes, good result. But its still a bit of a kick in the teeth for the many hundreds of people in the UK who do similar good work, who did so from the outset (without the aforementioned 'soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time' and 'making others lives miserable') but get bugger all recognition for it. The only difference with this chap was he was a junkie criminal first before he started doing some good. Hardly worth of such an award on that basis, is it?

I guess the public who notice and nominate people disagree.

[BarnatosGhost]

monthefish said:

BarnatosGhost said:

monthefish said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

Yes.

And certainly should not given an award for doing so.

The work the chap is doing now is meritorious of an award regardless of his history.

How any more-so than the many thousands who are doing the same good work but weren't a criminal junkie in the first place? (This is the bit I don't understand).

BarnatosGhost said:

The fact that he's now contributing financially in a small way and socially in a huge way, instead of soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time is a huge result.

Again, totally agree........but decent human beings don't soak up 'enormous amounts of police and court time' in the first place.

BarnatosGhost said:

I'm speaking for junkies. You simply cannot beat the drug problem by locking it up and trying to physically remove it from view. The hard-line just doesn't work. As difficult as it is for the socially conservative to embrace, the softly softly approach is the only one that'll save society money and hardship in the long-run.

You may very well be right, but that is a different discussion.

BarnatosGhost said:

If he feels good that he won an award, and if people from his 'old life' are inspired by his story and one or two manage to cross the line, then whats the problem? We're richer as a result, and less likely to have our TV nicked.

Again, yes, good result. But its still a bit of a kick in the teeth for the many hundereds of people in the UK who do similar good work, who did so from the outset (without the aforementioned 'soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time' and 'making others lives miserable') but get bugger all recognition for it. The only difference with this chap was he was a junkie criminal first before he started doing some good. Hardly worth of such an award on that basis, is it?

I think its just a case of 'being the bigger man' here. I'm not arguing that he is more deserving than any other social hero (of whom I'm in awe), but the practicalities of the situation are important.

By which I mean that celebrating a sinner's accession to sainthood has a more powerful effect on sinners than celebrating someone who has always been a saint.

The programme made an example of the chap whom junkies can identify with, and that is the reason for publicising his story. Its a pragmatic thing.

The Brummie lady (for example) who ran the gardening project for the kids is a wonderful story, and rightly celebrated, but it's not useful for the purposes of encouraging drug rehabilitation, since she was never on the wrong side of the tracks in the first place.

I think your points are valid, but only in isolation from the perspective of the social changes that the awards are designed to help bring about.

[monthefish]

BarnatosGhost said:

monthefish said:

BarnatosGhost said:

monthefish said:

elster said:

monthefish said:

Not at all. I just don't think they should be overly-congratulated for doing so. (and definitely not held in the same regard as a 6(?) year old who steps into a scalding bath to try to save her sister)

So you are saying an ex-con can reform, but shouldn't be congratulated for doing so and going above and beyond an average citizen.

Yes.

And certainly should not given an award for doing so.

The work the chap is doing now is meritorious of an award regardless of his history.

How any more-so than the many thousands who are doing the same good work but weren't a criminal junkie in the first place? (This is the bit I don't understand).

BarnatosGhost said:

The fact that he's now contributing financially in a small way and socially in a huge way, instead of soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time is a huge result.

Again, totally agree........but decent human beings don't soak up 'enormous amounts of police and court time' in the first place.

BarnatosGhost said:

I'm speaking for junkies. You simply cannot beat the drug problem by locking it up and trying to physically remove it from view. The hard-line just doesn't work. As difficult as it is for the socially conservative to embrace, the softly softly approach is the only one that'll save society money and hardship in the long-run.

You may very well be right, but that is a different discussion.

BarnatosGhost said:

If he feels good that he won an award, and if people from his 'old life' are inspired by his story and one or two manage to cross the line, then whats the problem? We're richer as a result, and less likely to have our TV nicked.

Again, yes, good result. But its still a bit of a kick in the teeth for the many hundereds of people in the UK who do similar good work, who did so from the outset (without the aforementioned 'soaking up enormous amounts of police and court time' and 'making others lives miserable') but get bugger all recognition for it. The only difference with this chap was he was a junkie criminal first before he started doing some good. Hardly worth of such an award on that basis, is it?

I think its just a case of 'being the bigger man' here. I'm not arguing that he is more deserving than any other social hero (of whom I'm in awe), but the practicalities of the situation are important.

By which I mean that celebrating a sinner's accession to sainthood has a more powerful effect on sinners than celebrating someone who has always been a saint.

The programme made an example of the chap whom junkies can identify with, and that is the reason for publicising his story. Its a pragmatic thing.

The Brummie lady (for example) who ran the gardening project for the kids is a wonderful story, and rightly celebrated, but it's not useful for the purposes of encouraging drug rehabilitation, since she was never on the wrong side of the tracks in the first place.

I think your points are valid, but only in isolation from the perspective of the social changes that the awards are designed to help bring about.

Fair enough, but as I said above, I don't honestly believe there are that many criminal junkies sitting at home watching the program, and then taking this story as the inspiration/catalyst for them wanting to change.

As I understand it, it takes more than a 3-minute clip on a television programme to break such a cycle/addiction.