GF's Watch - Change of plan, cheers Asterix!
Discussion
I may have fretted about it on this forum before. Basically my girlfriend has been there for me during the past few years which have been on-the-edge stuff. I want to buy her something special as a token of appreciation, naturally this will be a significantly larger gift (financially) than we usually exchange at Christmas.
Coincidentally, the Cartier tank francaise I bought her a few years ago has recently stopped working - and a change of battery didn't get it going reliably again so a nice watch would be a usefully functional gift as well. She thinks my collection is a bit OTT and doesn't appreciate mechanical movements like I do - in short she's not a watch geek.
Since she liked the Cartier tank design, she also likes the Patek Twenty-4 design. So there you go - easy choice, a steel one that she will wear daily, Patek are the top watchmaker so it's the 'best I could buy' rather than 'best I could afford', and it's not too blingy so she won't feel endangered in wearing it.
So I've been saving, waiting for a good watch to arrive on the second hand market before paying full whack (which would probably involve a bit of finance, which isn't a good idea on a depreciating watch).
And during this time, it's been nagging away at me. The Patek Twenty-4 is a complete rip-off. It uses a quartz movement in a steel case with some diamonds. QUARTZ. Now I know I'm a mechanical geek, and not everyone is that bothered about movements, let alone manufacture movements, but Patek sell this piece for £6995 retail. Steel isn't that expensive last time I looked, and Patek don't even use some ultra-rare and exotic alloy AFAIK (at least Rolex try to BS the customer regarding their 'special steel'). Yes, the watch has some diamonds, but not 6 grand's worth. The movement probably costs a fiver.
Of course, Patek quality is sublime - the watch is immaculately built, it looks lovely and the fit and finish are exemplary. But I haven't been able to shake off the feeling that it's simply vastly overpriced, and it has nothing of value other than the brand name and the snob value of being a Patek owner. Certainly there's nothing I've read about the watch that suggests *watchmaking* values. So whilst I want to give Becky the best (and sadly there *are* financial limits), the Patek is nagging away at me as a waste of money.
Asterix's post got me thinking. I love JLC and have a vintage piece, and on the list for my collection (in the future, hopefully not so long away) is a Reverso similar to his. I haven't had the opportunity to handle the Reverso range in person though, just not got round to it. Now Asterix acquired a Reverso for his fair lady, and a fine piece it is too. I remember the thread when he wrote up about it. JLC make ladies' watches with proper movements.... so....
I popped into my friendly jeweller / watch shop today as they used to sell Patek, wanting to work out some numbers. They'd lost the Patek dealer status, but could get me a watch. I mentioned that the quartz movement was nagging at me, and the owner said that yes, the quartz ladies' Pateks are a waste of money, and he'd much prefer to sell me a JLC... knowing that I was a watch geek and mechanical movement lover, as he pointed out
So I said 'what the hell, let's try on your Reversos and take a look at the ladies' models'. I try not to accept offers to try on new pieces at said shop because I have no self control but this time I decided I had to see whether the ladies JLC was special enough in the metal to make the fact that it 'wasn't a Patek' irrelevant. Becky is NOT that brand conscious, and in general doesn't have a 'status symbol' attitude at all (she likes her handbags, that's the only thing that costs her (and me) a fortune). She knows that Patek are the 'best' though, has heard of Cartier, but probably doesn't know how prestigious JLC are. She wouldn't have picked our beloved forum's conclusion regarding JLC's position in the 'hierarchy for fun' we did in that thread.
They had the steel bracelet Reverso in stock like Asterix's. It has a lovely plain dial on one side (for daytime use), but a beautiful mother-of-pearl and diamond dial on the other. The fit and finish were stunning. The 'evening wear' dial side looked a million dollars - well in excess of the list price. It is steel and therefore practical for everyday wear. I loved it. It is manual wind though, and Becky isn't used to this... could I get her to appreciate fine mechanical movements and JLC as being up there as one of the most 'special'? I was then told that the entire watch was assembled by one person - by hand, and signed by the assembler inside. It just radiated 'the very finest' from every angle - I wound the crown a bit and listened to the movement, and it was precise, exact, the feeling and sound of extremely fine tolerances. There was tactile pleasure to be had from winding it (which she'll have to do each day). Swapping the watch from front to back was also pleasing in itself, over and above the fact that having a businesslike, elegant day watch *and* a jewelled, beautiful evening watch rolled into one is a neat trick itself I fell in love with it. The only possible aspect I could criticise is the clasp, which in pursuit of being low-profile and invisible, is a friction fit alone. Unclasping the watch required a level of force which seemed inappropriate (or enough to potentially break it). Of course, it's engineered for this and breakage / bending won't happen.
Compared to the Patek, the JLC is immeasurably superior. It satisfies on so many levels - the watch geek in me appreciates the fantastic tiny movement, but Becky will most surely appreciate the quality, the looks, and that hidden evening watch! The 'evening' dial, in perfect mother of pearl and with diamonds, is exquisite and looks much more expensive than it is. Becky will have to learn to wind the watch each day... but because of the fineness of the mechanicals, it's an enjoyable tactile sensation - it's easy to wind, doesn't need strong fingers, clicks reassuringly and won't break fingernails. And this daily interaction increases the time spent close-up to the watch, allowing her to appreciate the miniature perfection of the little thing.
I'm gambling that the daily wind, the increased interaction with the watch close-up, will get her to more fully appreciate mechanical movements. At the very least, the added intimacy will get her 'bonded' to the watch much more so than if it was a battery quartz, just to throw on at the last moment before leaving for work in the morning.
I just need a way to find out if she likes the styling, the 'look', of the main dial and bracelet, as it's a thicker-than-normal, rectangular watch... without her guessing that I'm buying her one. She knows that her Christmas present is going to be more special this year because of the reasons given at the start, and she knows that I'm likely to be buying her a watch because I haven't fixed her Cartier properly or replaced it yet. I've shown her pictures of the Patek (to gauge whether she liked it) so she probably wouldn't be surprised if I got her one of those. But having played with the JLC in the metal, it is SO beautiful that I just have to get her one. My friendly jeweller will do me a nice deal (even on interest free credit, which is free money IMO) but it's not about the money (the JLC is around £1500 cheaper than the Patek). I could just go on my opinion, which is 'this thing is utterly beautiful' and hope she feels the same way (we tend to like the same things)...
So Asterix - thank you. There's a chance that this gift may turn my girlfriend into more of a watch lover, at least get her to understand where I'm coming from. I'll know that the money was well spent on an incredibly fine instrument assembled by a single person over the course of a year, I won't resent the cost one bit (on the contrary, the JLC looks like a bargain to me). I'll also have a girlfriend who wears a 'proper watch'
And I guess it's saved me £1500, but that isn't the point at all.
I'm going out to the pub now, so I will be toasting your health with some good beer
The other side to this story is that, of course, the jeweller had me trying all the Reversos (he knows I have no self control)... I managed to avoid buying myself one with money I don't have, but mainly because I couldn't decide which complication I wanted most!!! I'll do another thread for my Reverso hunt though as this is already a bit long.
I walked out with a copy of the JLC catalogue (lovely...) and I'll be putting down a downpayment next week for Becky's Christmas present (don't worry, she NEVER reads PH) unless anyone has horror stories or good reasons I should avoid the watch, including better suggestions (if JLC make an even nicer model, for example)....
Coincidentally, the Cartier tank francaise I bought her a few years ago has recently stopped working - and a change of battery didn't get it going reliably again so a nice watch would be a usefully functional gift as well. She thinks my collection is a bit OTT and doesn't appreciate mechanical movements like I do - in short she's not a watch geek.
Since she liked the Cartier tank design, she also likes the Patek Twenty-4 design. So there you go - easy choice, a steel one that she will wear daily, Patek are the top watchmaker so it's the 'best I could buy' rather than 'best I could afford', and it's not too blingy so she won't feel endangered in wearing it.
So I've been saving, waiting for a good watch to arrive on the second hand market before paying full whack (which would probably involve a bit of finance, which isn't a good idea on a depreciating watch).
And during this time, it's been nagging away at me. The Patek Twenty-4 is a complete rip-off. It uses a quartz movement in a steel case with some diamonds. QUARTZ. Now I know I'm a mechanical geek, and not everyone is that bothered about movements, let alone manufacture movements, but Patek sell this piece for £6995 retail. Steel isn't that expensive last time I looked, and Patek don't even use some ultra-rare and exotic alloy AFAIK (at least Rolex try to BS the customer regarding their 'special steel'). Yes, the watch has some diamonds, but not 6 grand's worth. The movement probably costs a fiver.
Of course, Patek quality is sublime - the watch is immaculately built, it looks lovely and the fit and finish are exemplary. But I haven't been able to shake off the feeling that it's simply vastly overpriced, and it has nothing of value other than the brand name and the snob value of being a Patek owner. Certainly there's nothing I've read about the watch that suggests *watchmaking* values. So whilst I want to give Becky the best (and sadly there *are* financial limits), the Patek is nagging away at me as a waste of money.
Asterix's post got me thinking. I love JLC and have a vintage piece, and on the list for my collection (in the future, hopefully not so long away) is a Reverso similar to his. I haven't had the opportunity to handle the Reverso range in person though, just not got round to it. Now Asterix acquired a Reverso for his fair lady, and a fine piece it is too. I remember the thread when he wrote up about it. JLC make ladies' watches with proper movements.... so....
I popped into my friendly jeweller / watch shop today as they used to sell Patek, wanting to work out some numbers. They'd lost the Patek dealer status, but could get me a watch. I mentioned that the quartz movement was nagging at me, and the owner said that yes, the quartz ladies' Pateks are a waste of money, and he'd much prefer to sell me a JLC... knowing that I was a watch geek and mechanical movement lover, as he pointed out
So I said 'what the hell, let's try on your Reversos and take a look at the ladies' models'. I try not to accept offers to try on new pieces at said shop because I have no self control
but this time I decided I had to see whether the ladies JLC was special enough in the metal to make the fact that it 'wasn't a Patek' irrelevant. Becky is NOT that brand conscious, and in general doesn't have a 'status symbol' attitude at all (she likes her handbags, that's the only thing that costs her (and me) a fortune). She knows that Patek are the 'best' though, has heard of Cartier, but probably doesn't know how prestigious JLC are. She wouldn't have picked our beloved forum's conclusion regarding JLC's position in the 'hierarchy for fun' we did in that thread.They had the steel bracelet Reverso in stock like Asterix's. It has a lovely plain dial on one side (for daytime use), but a beautiful mother-of-pearl and diamond dial on the other. The fit and finish were stunning. The 'evening wear' dial side looked a million dollars - well in excess of the list price. It is steel and therefore practical for everyday wear. I loved it. It is manual wind though, and Becky isn't used to this... could I get her to appreciate fine mechanical movements and JLC as being up there as one of the most 'special'? I was then told that the entire watch was assembled by one person - by hand, and signed by the assembler inside. It just radiated 'the very finest' from every angle - I wound the crown a bit and listened to the movement, and it was precise, exact, the feeling and sound of extremely fine tolerances. There was tactile pleasure to be had from winding it (which she'll have to do each day). Swapping the watch from front to back was also pleasing in itself, over and above the fact that having a businesslike, elegant day watch *and* a jewelled, beautiful evening watch rolled into one is a neat trick itself
I fell in love with it. The only possible aspect I could criticise is the clasp, which in pursuit of being low-profile and invisible, is a friction fit alone. Unclasping the watch required a level of force which seemed inappropriate (or enough to potentially break it). Of course, it's engineered for this and breakage / bending won't happen.Compared to the Patek, the JLC is immeasurably superior. It satisfies on so many levels - the watch geek in me appreciates the fantastic tiny movement, but Becky will most surely appreciate the quality, the looks, and that hidden evening watch! The 'evening' dial, in perfect mother of pearl and with diamonds, is exquisite and looks much more expensive than it is. Becky will have to learn to wind the watch each day... but because of the fineness of the mechanicals, it's an enjoyable tactile sensation - it's easy to wind, doesn't need strong fingers, clicks reassuringly and won't break fingernails. And this daily interaction increases the time spent close-up to the watch, allowing her to appreciate the miniature perfection of the little thing.
I'm gambling that the daily wind, the increased interaction with the watch close-up, will get her to more fully appreciate mechanical movements. At the very least, the added intimacy will get her 'bonded' to the watch much more so than if it was a battery quartz, just to throw on at the last moment before leaving for work in the morning.
I just need a way to find out if she likes the styling, the 'look', of the main dial and bracelet, as it's a thicker-than-normal, rectangular watch... without her guessing that I'm buying her one. She knows that her Christmas present is going to be more special this year because of the reasons given at the start, and she knows that I'm likely to be buying her a watch because I haven't fixed her Cartier properly or replaced it yet. I've shown her pictures of the Patek (to gauge whether she liked it) so she probably wouldn't be surprised if I got her one of those. But having played with the JLC in the metal, it is SO beautiful that I just have to get her one. My friendly jeweller will do me a nice deal (even on interest free credit, which is free money IMO) but it's not about the money (the JLC is around £1500 cheaper than the Patek). I could just go on my opinion, which is 'this thing is utterly beautiful' and hope she feels the same way (we tend to like the same things)...
So Asterix - thank you. There's a chance that this gift may turn my girlfriend into more of a watch lover, at least get her to understand where I'm coming from. I'll know that the money was well spent on an incredibly fine instrument assembled by a single person over the course of a year, I won't resent the cost one bit (on the contrary, the JLC looks like a bargain to me). I'll also have a girlfriend who wears a 'proper watch'
And I guess it's saved me £1500, but that isn't the point at all.I'm going out to the pub now, so I will be toasting your health with some good beer
The other side to this story is that, of course, the jeweller had me trying all the Reversos (he knows I have no self control)... I managed to avoid buying myself one with money I don't have, but mainly because I couldn't decide which complication I wanted most!!! I'll do another thread for my Reverso hunt though as this is already a bit long.
I walked out with a copy of the JLC catalogue (lovely...) and I'll be putting down a downpayment next week for Becky's Christmas present (don't worry, she NEVER reads PH) unless anyone has horror stories or good reasons I should avoid the watch, including better suggestions (if JLC make an even nicer model, for example)....
I really enjoyed reading this post cyberface, I think you have made the right choice and bought her a great present.
I'm not really a watch movement geek (I am a watch fan and love many styles and own many watches) but I really can't get my head around any watch costing more than a grand that has a quartz movement. I only read about the Patek Twenty-4 for the first time the other day and it concerned me for three reasons, 1) Patek have a quartz watch in their range! 2) how f
king much??? 3) Jesus, can you imagine the type of person who would buy one!
I honestly believe you have bought a stunning watch with craftmanship and style way in excess of both it's price and quality when compared to many pf the other premium manufacturers.
You may now sleep easy and sleep smugly knowing you made the right choice...was it ever really in doubt? Cyberface buying a Patek quartz.......I ask you.
I'm not really a watch movement geek (I am a watch fan and love many styles and own many watches) but I really can't get my head around any watch costing more than a grand that has a quartz movement. I only read about the Patek Twenty-4 for the first time the other day and it concerned me for three reasons, 1) Patek have a quartz watch in their range! 2) how f
king much??? 3) Jesus, can you imagine the type of person who would buy one! I honestly believe you have bought a stunning watch with craftmanship and style way in excess of both it's price and quality when compared to many pf the other premium manufacturers.
You may now sleep easy and sleep smugly knowing you made the right choice...was it ever really in doubt? Cyberface buying a Patek quartz.......I ask you.
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