Wood varnish - how to get a PERFECT finish
Discussion
Chaps,
I've made a mirror frame, for zcacogp towers. It's made from some leftover wood from a futon, and is octagonal. I'm happy with the construction (the joints are good), but I am struggling to get a really, really good finish to the varnish.
I'm using a Johnstone's satin polyurethane clear varnish, like this:
and applying it by brush.
The frame is horizontal when the varnish is applied, and I am brushing it out with long strokes, the length of each side of the frame. The work is being done in our basement workshop.
The snag is that I can't get a good finish to the varnish. It is always rough. Getting pictures of it is tricky, but these just about show the problem:
As this will be a piece of furniture that will be hung on the wall, I want an immaculate (or as near as I can get) finish. I'm aiming for something as smooth as water. I am rubbing it down between coats, and can get a perfect finish once it is rubbed down, but this clearly doesn't leave an aesthetically appealing surface (it is very matt). Add another coat of varnish and you get a whole new set of imperfections ... It has had about 8 or 9 coats now, and the last few have been rubbed down with wet 1200 grit wet-and-dry paper, which leaves it really smooth, but each new coat of varnish spoils it.
I'm not sure what these imperfections are - dust or something else. I know that I was getting some (tiny) bubbles, and as a consequence don't stir the varnish before applying it now. This helped things, but hasn't cured the problem. I have tried painting it with it vertical (hanging up) and that didn't make any difference.
It's possible that the blemishes are dust, but to minimise this I don't varnish it immediately after rubbing down, to allow any dust in the air to settle. I wait until the air is still before opening the tin of varnish, and leave it undisturbed until the varnish is set, but to no avail.
The other problem (visible from the photos) is brush strokes. I don't know what to do about those either. Can you buy spray-on varnish, in an aerosol tin, perhaps?
From the (poor) photos and description, does anyone have any suggestions?
Oli.
I've made a mirror frame, for zcacogp towers. It's made from some leftover wood from a futon, and is octagonal. I'm happy with the construction (the joints are good), but I am struggling to get a really, really good finish to the varnish.
I'm using a Johnstone's satin polyurethane clear varnish, like this:
and applying it by brush.
The frame is horizontal when the varnish is applied, and I am brushing it out with long strokes, the length of each side of the frame. The work is being done in our basement workshop.
The snag is that I can't get a good finish to the varnish. It is always rough. Getting pictures of it is tricky, but these just about show the problem:
As this will be a piece of furniture that will be hung on the wall, I want an immaculate (or as near as I can get) finish. I'm aiming for something as smooth as water. I am rubbing it down between coats, and can get a perfect finish once it is rubbed down, but this clearly doesn't leave an aesthetically appealing surface (it is very matt). Add another coat of varnish and you get a whole new set of imperfections ... It has had about 8 or 9 coats now, and the last few have been rubbed down with wet 1200 grit wet-and-dry paper, which leaves it really smooth, but each new coat of varnish spoils it.
I'm not sure what these imperfections are - dust or something else. I know that I was getting some (tiny) bubbles, and as a consequence don't stir the varnish before applying it now. This helped things, but hasn't cured the problem. I have tried painting it with it vertical (hanging up) and that didn't make any difference.
It's possible that the blemishes are dust, but to minimise this I don't varnish it immediately after rubbing down, to allow any dust in the air to settle. I wait until the air is still before opening the tin of varnish, and leave it undisturbed until the varnish is set, but to no avail.
The other problem (visible from the photos) is brush strokes. I don't know what to do about those either. Can you buy spray-on varnish, in an aerosol tin, perhaps?
From the (poor) photos and description, does anyone have any suggestions?
Oli.
absolutely. The key here is to get a good build up of varnish, and then flat it back. I tend to go thru the grits on a random orb sander to about 400 grit, and the finish is fine satin,not high gloss. If you are going through to 1200, the finish will be better than I aim for.
It's the same process used on lacquer on cars - although that tends to be a de-nib and DA down to 3000 grit. Same effect - perfectly flat but a wet glass look.
Just make sure that you have an even dullness all over the varnish - no troughs of shine left or the waxed finish will look streaky.
ETA - when I say wax - I mean this kind of stuff, not Mr Sheen!
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Chestnut-Woodwa...
It's the same process used on lacquer on cars - although that tends to be a de-nib and DA down to 3000 grit. Same effect - perfectly flat but a wet glass look.
Just make sure that you have an even dullness all over the varnish - no troughs of shine left or the waxed finish will look streaky.
ETA - when I say wax - I mean this kind of stuff, not Mr Sheen!
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Chestnut-Woodwa...
Edited by SeeFive on Thursday 15th October 12:54
Kev,
Thanks. I've now tried it, using Flag's 'Classic Wax' (in a tin, think it is beeswax-based.)
Applying with a cloth didn't do much, but applying with fine wire wool got something of a finish. It is quite matt (more so than the varnish on its own), but that is not a problem (I don't like overly glossy woods.) It IS even, which is great.
I think this may be the solution. I've propped it up in the lounge (where it will eventually live) and am contemplating the appearance. I'll see what Mrs zcacogp says when she comes home this evening, and think about getting some glass cut to go in it this evening.
Thanks!
Oli.
Thanks. I've now tried it, using Flag's 'Classic Wax' (in a tin, think it is beeswax-based.)
Applying with a cloth didn't do much, but applying with fine wire wool got something of a finish. It is quite matt (more so than the varnish on its own), but that is not a problem (I don't like overly glossy woods.) It IS even, which is great.
I think this may be the solution. I've propped it up in the lounge (where it will eventually live) and am contemplating the appearance. I'll see what Mrs zcacogp says when she comes home this evening, and think about getting some glass cut to go in it this evening.
Thanks!
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Kev,
Thanks. I've now tried it, using Flag's 'Classic Wax' (in a tin, think it is beeswax-based.)
Applying with a cloth didn't do much, but applying with fine wire wool got something of a finish. It is quite matt (more so than the varnish on its own), but that is not a problem (I don't like overly glossy woods.) It IS even, which is great.
I think this may be the solution. I've propped it up in the lounge (where it will eventually live) and am contemplating the appearance. I'll see what Mrs zcacogp says when she comes home this evening, and think about getting some glass cut to go in it this evening.
Thanks!
Oli.
Good stuff. I tend to use the Halfrauds polishing cloth on a roll to apply and buff wax. It's quite coarse, but not as coarse as wire wool. Sometimes if the wax has been applied a bit thick, and set in lines I knock them off with a car polishing mop, or pure elbow grease if the area is not too big.Thanks. I've now tried it, using Flag's 'Classic Wax' (in a tin, think it is beeswax-based.)
Applying with a cloth didn't do much, but applying with fine wire wool got something of a finish. It is quite matt (more so than the varnish on its own), but that is not a problem (I don't like overly glossy woods.) It IS even, which is great.
I think this may be the solution. I've propped it up in the lounge (where it will eventually live) and am contemplating the appearance. I'll see what Mrs zcacogp says when she comes home this evening, and think about getting some glass cut to go in it this evening.
Thanks!
Oli.
It's satisfying to get stuff together yourself isn't it? I just knocked up a table top for my daughter. Edge laminated solid beech, a coat of sanding sealer cut back, half a dozen coats of varnish with the top lightly knocked off between each coat and flatted to 400. Then hand applied Colron finishing wax (B&Q I think as I have been doing a lot of lathe work lately and run my stocks dry) in straight lines with the grain and polished it out after 10 mins. All looked fine, nice sheen not a massive gloss which is something I try to avoid on wood frankly. Didn't need to use wire wool, but it is an option when applying wax - but normally used on bare wood.
I am now about half way through a sideboard in oak for the missus. That will just be sealed and waxed, no varnish at all to match the dining room table. Then onto an oak corner unit, and then get all my machinery re-sharpened - oak is bloody hard on the tools. Problem is, I have absolutely no time right now so it's been hanging around a bit.
Then onto a big bedroom project - hand built solid walnut bed, walnut / beech inlay accented furniture and inbuilt wardrobe units, new recessed ceilings with LED accent lighting all over the place and a kidney shaped dressing table which will hide a TV screen down the back until we need to use it. Thinking of a highly polished / french polished finish on that stuff to reflect lighting. Bit of a tarts boudoir really, but it what she wants and I quite enjoy the work.
I have a week off in November so with a bit of luck I'll break the back of the decorating and electrics, and get the major woodwork done by Christmas if I can find a couple more weekends. Then I can spray my car's nosecone and rear end - unless she makes the decision to have the en-suite turned into a wet room, then I'll be in there till the new year!
Bloody women and their homes getting in the way of important stuff like cars!
Chaps,
Thanks for the suggestions. As it was, the wax applied with (fine) wire wool was the chosen option, and the finished article looks like this:
The finish is pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty good. Very smooth to the touch, and just about the right degree of gloss/matt. (Possibly slightly more matt than I would have chosen, but I'm not upset. And some harder wax may yet cure that.)
Hard to photograph the finish, but here's my best shots.
Thanks again for your help - particularly Seefive, as it was your solution which cured the problem. I reckon I owe you a beer!
Oli.
Thanks for the suggestions. As it was, the wax applied with (fine) wire wool was the chosen option, and the finished article looks like this:
The finish is pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty good. Very smooth to the touch, and just about the right degree of gloss/matt. (Possibly slightly more matt than I would have chosen, but I'm not upset. And some harder wax may yet cure that.)
Hard to photograph the finish, but here's my best shots.
Thanks again for your help - particularly Seefive, as it was your solution which cured the problem. I reckon I owe you a beer!
Oli.
Hey, looking good to me Oli.
It may be the wire wool that has caused a little of the dullness. I typically use a polishing cloth - like the stockinette you buy at Halfords to do mine. If I want a higher sheen, typically it just means more elbow grease buffing (or getting the car polisher out). Different waxes will of course offer a different level of shine.
I use fine 0000 or 00000 grade to apply wax on bare wood, but cloths on varnish. Never tried it on varnish before, but your results look good - actually, I rarely use varnish these days - oils or waxes suit a lot of my stuff.
I have many books on wood finishing, but have kinda adapted my own style to get the finish I like. This woodworking 101 video url below is quite interesting to get a very fine finish. Essentially working thru the grits to 4-5000 and then polishing. There's lots of interesting stuff on there on all sorts of woodworking tips - if you can stand some of the presenters (not including David Free on the Great British Woodshop as he's a decent chap with a Vette too). The Router Workshop is very good stuff, but the father and son presenters are a real pain. Anyway, back to the polishing url...
http://www.woodworkingchannel.com/dolphin/vidego_v...
This url will only get you to the videos page, then go (right - off the page) to the Woodworking 101s tab, and Andy Rae - Polishing Table Tops. That is a kind of extension to what you have done with yours.
Anyway, well done that man
great result. I am having that internet beer as I write.
It may be the wire wool that has caused a little of the dullness. I typically use a polishing cloth - like the stockinette you buy at Halfords to do mine. If I want a higher sheen, typically it just means more elbow grease buffing (or getting the car polisher out). Different waxes will of course offer a different level of shine.
I use fine 0000 or 00000 grade to apply wax on bare wood, but cloths on varnish. Never tried it on varnish before, but your results look good - actually, I rarely use varnish these days - oils or waxes suit a lot of my stuff.
I have many books on wood finishing, but have kinda adapted my own style to get the finish I like. This woodworking 101 video url below is quite interesting to get a very fine finish. Essentially working thru the grits to 4-5000 and then polishing. There's lots of interesting stuff on there on all sorts of woodworking tips - if you can stand some of the presenters (not including David Free on the Great British Woodshop as he's a decent chap with a Vette too). The Router Workshop is very good stuff, but the father and son presenters are a real pain. Anyway, back to the polishing url...
http://www.woodworkingchannel.com/dolphin/vidego_v...
This url will only get you to the videos page, then go (right - off the page) to the Woodworking 101s tab, and Andy Rae - Polishing Table Tops. That is a kind of extension to what you have done with yours.
Anyway, well done that man
great result. I am having that internet beer as I write.Seefive,
Sorry, I should clarify. It was fine grit wet-and-dry, used wet, then fine wire wool with beeswax, then beeswax with a soft (yellow!) duster. Then a dry duster for the final sheen.
Thanks for that link. I haven't seen those before ... some good watching there. (And - dammit - I'm regretting that I loaned my router to a friend now!)
Oli.
Sorry, I should clarify. It was fine grit wet-and-dry, used wet, then fine wire wool with beeswax, then beeswax with a soft (yellow!) duster. Then a dry duster for the final sheen.
Thanks for that link. I haven't seen those before ... some good watching there. (And - dammit - I'm regretting that I loaned my router to a friend now!)
Oli.
sirquattro said:
That is one sexy wooden box there in the center of the mantle piece. What do you keep in there? Turkish delight?
A very fine wooden box, putting the rest of the woodwork in the room to shame. Used to store matches. Given to us by some very dear American friends, last time they came to visit. We keep on inviting them back, but they never seem to come ... 
Oli.
P.S. Hello Mr Doyle. Do give my regards to your lady wife.
Ah!! "Strikes" you as a "flaming" good idea, so long as it doesn't cause "friction." Oh! I get it! That's GOOD! Very GOOD!
It's probably typical American arrogance. They think they invented everything... including fire.
Meant to say before Oli, that is some seriously nice joinery. Up to your usual standard, I must say. Nice work. Does justice to your Turkish delight box.
siwqwattwo
It's probably typical American arrogance. They think they invented everything... including fire.
Meant to say before Oli, that is some seriously nice joinery. Up to your usual standard, I must say. Nice work. Does justice to your Turkish delight box.
siwqwattwo
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