E39 530i Touring Oct 2001 - Electrics / Drain / Intermittant
Discussion
Anybody got a list of known problems causing total battery drain over a 2 to 3 day period ?
Car is a fully specced 2001 (51 Reg) 530 Sport Touring; since 2003 has had battery drain problem at least once a year.
No aftermarket devices fitted. Have crippled glovebox, tailgate and interior lights for years now !
Only done 36K miles since new ....
Battery replaced 2004, 2006 & 2008; alternator January 2008.
Daily mileage now circa 25/30 - ie 30 to 40 mins running. Occasional much longer trips.
Dealer also replaced 'Hedgehog' (Relay ? related to blower ... ) apparent known fault for it to allow run on after ignition off, when Alternator disgnosed as duff in January 2008.
Last year disabled Traffic Master, altho a known fix was apparently applied.
Problem seems to start every Sept, could it be as obvious as running with lights on after a long period of daylight only ? No signs of Relay problems (all are original OEM, no replacements)
Recurred last week after just 2 days of non-use (last run had been a 5 min lights on trip back from a Flu Jab appointment !); totally flat, even key-buttons wouldnt operate locks. Full 30 hours on a Ctek charger. Has just returned from local Bosch Specialist, with clean bill of health for the Alternator etc and 3 days of monitoring - NOWT !
Any clues much appreciated.
Car is a fully specced 2001 (51 Reg) 530 Sport Touring; since 2003 has had battery drain problem at least once a year.
No aftermarket devices fitted. Have crippled glovebox, tailgate and interior lights for years now !
Only done 36K miles since new ....
Battery replaced 2004, 2006 & 2008; alternator January 2008.
Daily mileage now circa 25/30 - ie 30 to 40 mins running. Occasional much longer trips.
Dealer also replaced 'Hedgehog' (Relay ? related to blower ... ) apparent known fault for it to allow run on after ignition off, when Alternator disgnosed as duff in January 2008.
Last year disabled Traffic Master, altho a known fix was apparently applied.
Problem seems to start every Sept, could it be as obvious as running with lights on after a long period of daylight only ? No signs of Relay problems (all are original OEM, no replacements)
Recurred last week after just 2 days of non-use (last run had been a 5 min lights on trip back from a Flu Jab appointment !); totally flat, even key-buttons wouldnt operate locks. Full 30 hours on a Ctek charger. Has just returned from local Bosch Specialist, with clean bill of health for the Alternator etc and 3 days of monitoring - NOWT !
Any clues much appreciated.
Edited by speedtriple on Saturday 16th January 15:20
Hedgehog is the usual problem that causes this, mine suffered from it. Even though it has already been changed, the replacement could have been old (faulty) stock (there is a clear difference between the original and the new stock) or it could have died since then. It's a 20 minute job to change it, IIRC the part is about £30 from GSF Car Parts.
Have you had it plugged into a diagnostics laptop?
There is loads of good E39 info here:
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewforum.php?f=5
including the instructions for changing the hedgehog.
Have you had it plugged into a diagnostics laptop?
There is loads of good E39 info here:
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewforum.php?f=5
including the instructions for changing the hedgehog.
The most common cause of battery drain in these cars is a faulty "hedgehog" which can cause the aircon blower to run intermittantly for hours after the car has been switched off. But as you seem to have had this replaced I guess it rules it out provided it was replaced with an original BMW supplied item and not one of the many spurious items available out there ?
The car's many systems remain active for about 20 minutes after the ignition is switched off and the car is locked up. Perhaps you should check if these are actually shutting down. You can do this I believe by checkig if the little orange light by the gearlver goes out after about 20 minutes. If it remains illuminated it would indicate that the car is not properly shutting down and would continue to drain the battery much more quickly than it would if all the systems were shut down.
Just a thought that it might be worth checking. I've just become the owner of a 2001 530i Touring myself and am still finding my way around the car but so far I'm very happy. If it proves as enjoyable and reliable as my 523i Touring (165K miles) I'll be delighted.
Best of Luck.
Dec.
The car's many systems remain active for about 20 minutes after the ignition is switched off and the car is locked up. Perhaps you should check if these are actually shutting down. You can do this I believe by checkig if the little orange light by the gearlver goes out after about 20 minutes. If it remains illuminated it would indicate that the car is not properly shutting down and would continue to drain the battery much more quickly than it would if all the systems were shut down.
Just a thought that it might be worth checking. I've just become the owner of a 2001 530i Touring myself and am still finding my way around the car but so far I'm very happy. If it proves as enjoyable and reliable as my 523i Touring (165K miles) I'll be delighted.
Best of Luck.
Dec.
Much appreciated replies .... yes, the Hedgehog replaced in Jan 2008 was by a main dealer, so if he hadnt purged his stock of old uns I'll be amazed, not to say peed off.
Yes, worth checking.... will follow up, altho I now sit and listen when taking the key out and it always 'whirr/clicks' after about 10 seconds..... maybe the one time tho ....
Quote: Have you had it plugged into a diagnostics laptop?
Hopefully standard practice for BMW dealers?
Altho its not been back to the same one that did the Alternaor and HH in Jan 2008, this week was to a local place that has all the Bosch testing kit, a great attitude and hourly rates that dont need a mortgage ...... they sat monitoring current flow for almost 3 days after checking the alternator etc.... altho, if its intermittant, they might have missed summat, and of course if they do see a spike, it still needs to be diagnosed as to which device / circuit is affected.
Doesnt help when the fuses cover multiple devices like TV screen / phone etc either !
Quiescing electrical sysytems - yes, almost exactly 20 mins to turn off the 'PARK' light - goes off every time I've checked over the years.
Ho hum ...
Thanks again !
Yes, worth checking.... will follow up, altho I now sit and listen when taking the key out and it always 'whirr/clicks' after about 10 seconds..... maybe the one time tho ....
Quote: Have you had it plugged into a diagnostics laptop?
Hopefully standard practice for BMW dealers?
Altho its not been back to the same one that did the Alternaor and HH in Jan 2008, this week was to a local place that has all the Bosch testing kit, a great attitude and hourly rates that dont need a mortgage ...... they sat monitoring current flow for almost 3 days after checking the alternator etc.... altho, if its intermittant, they might have missed summat, and of course if they do see a spike, it still needs to be diagnosed as to which device / circuit is affected.
Doesnt help when the fuses cover multiple devices like TV screen / phone etc either !
Quiescing electrical sysytems - yes, almost exactly 20 mins to turn off the 'PARK' light - goes off every time I've checked over the years.
Ho hum ...
Thanks again !
Hedgehog is most likely culprit, and if only for the relatively cheap replacement I would do that one more time. Did mine this summer and it is a 5 minute job if you are able to contort yourself into the limited space in the footwell. http://www.540i6.com/finalstagereplacement.html
Other than that, is your 530 an "i" or "d"? Don't know if the auxiliary heater on the "d" could be faulty, and drain the battery?
Finally, the battery could also have developed a faulty cell, and if it is discharged completely over a few days it will certainly lose capacity each time.
Good luck!
Other than that, is your 530 an "i" or "d"? Don't know if the auxiliary heater on the "d" could be faulty, and drain the battery?
Finally, the battery could also have developed a faulty cell, and if it is discharged completely over a few days it will certainly lose capacity each time.
Good luck!
Many thanks indeed.
I'll do the FSU then; shame it didnt 'happen' during the 3 days of monitoring this week.
I obtained this battery as I was concerned that the previous one had suffered from multiple discharges - its still going strong in another vehicle !
My 530 is an 'i' - 6 cyl petrol, so no aux heater etc.
Just worries me that some component amongst the myriad devices like sensors, relays et al is lurking waiting to strike again !
Cheers all, help much appreciated.
I'll do the FSU then; shame it didnt 'happen' during the 3 days of monitoring this week.
I obtained this battery as I was concerned that the previous one had suffered from multiple discharges - its still going strong in another vehicle !
My 530 is an 'i' - 6 cyl petrol, so no aux heater etc.
Just worries me that some component amongst the myriad devices like sensors, relays et al is lurking waiting to strike again !
Cheers all, help much appreciated.
rassi said:
Hedgehog is most likely culprit, and if only for the relatively cheap replacement I would do that one more time.
Good luck!
Its back !Good luck!
Hedgehog changed under warranty on Nov 2nd.
Battery last fully charged after early Oct incident.
Flat as the proverbial this moning - after 48 hours non-use.
Cant believe its an intermittant now - its almost as if the alternator is covering the normal load, but not having any excess to charge the battery ? Get to a couple of months after a full charge and 2 days quiet, and - flat !
Is there some part of the charging circuit external to the alternator and its inbuilt Regulator that could be affecting what the battery should be getting ?
Any ideas on a diagnostic approach other than has already been taken - ie a clamp and meter on the battery to watch for spikes ?
Wits end
A wild, wild stab in the dark but...Have you got anything stored in the rear left luggage compartment (where the cd changer lives, if you have one).
I had a very strange electrical issue on mine (when I had it) as I had some jump leads and other "stuff" packed into that compartment - seems it was somehow creating gremlins with the electrics (i.e. all the warning lights lit up, temp gauge going mental). As soon as I cleared all the stuff out the faults all disappeared???
Just something to check. I doubt it will fix your problem though. Good luck with it.
Have you copied/pasted your problems over in bmwland.co.uk or bimmerforums.co.uk? I'd do that too if not.
If you can't sort it there's always a trickle charger, or sell it! Neither ideal solutions however.
Good luck with it.
I had a very strange electrical issue on mine (when I had it) as I had some jump leads and other "stuff" packed into that compartment - seems it was somehow creating gremlins with the electrics (i.e. all the warning lights lit up, temp gauge going mental). As soon as I cleared all the stuff out the faults all disappeared???
Just something to check. I doubt it will fix your problem though. Good luck with it.
Have you copied/pasted your problems over in bmwland.co.uk or bimmerforums.co.uk? I'd do that too if not.
If you can't sort it there's always a trickle charger, or sell it! Neither ideal solutions however.
Good luck with it.
Many thanks indeed, will take your advice.
One point, if that switch pack can keep the K-Bus up, would I not see the 'Park' indicator lamp (stay) illuminated, indicating that everything had not quiesced ? (stays on for about 20 mins normally) ?
My vanity mirrors only light up when sun visor down and mirror cover slid open. But will check again.
Much appreciated.
Added: remembered I didnt use it yesterday, so actually 44 hours since last run.
Just started fine, no evidence of a grunt with the starter.
In your experience, is that switch park short perm', as this fault of mine does seem to be intermittant or perhaps charging related.
Visor mirror lights are fine, no sign of dimming over 2 or 3 mins (engine off, ign in aux)
Question about disconnecting switch pack: is the A-post visible entry point of the cable flex-rubber conduit from the door actually a shrouded plug & socket - doesnt seem to want to move.
So I guess its the panel covering the area around the pedals and steering column that has to come off to get access to the rear of the A-post and any connectors ?
Didnt want to start prying at the switch pack itself to remove it with my ridiculous tools !
Thanks again
One point, if that switch pack can keep the K-Bus up, would I not see the 'Park' indicator lamp (stay) illuminated, indicating that everything had not quiesced ? (stays on for about 20 mins normally) ?
My vanity mirrors only light up when sun visor down and mirror cover slid open. But will check again.
Much appreciated.
==========================
Added: remembered I didnt use it yesterday, so actually 44 hours since last run.
Just started fine, no evidence of a grunt with the starter.
In your experience, is that switch park short perm', as this fault of mine does seem to be intermittant or perhaps charging related.
Visor mirror lights are fine, no sign of dimming over 2 or 3 mins (engine off, ign in aux)
Question about disconnecting switch pack: is the A-post visible entry point of the cable flex-rubber conduit from the door actually a shrouded plug & socket - doesnt seem to want to move.
So I guess its the panel covering the area around the pedals and steering column that has to come off to get access to the rear of the A-post and any connectors ?
Didnt want to start prying at the switch pack itself to remove it with my ridiculous tools !
Thanks again
Edited by speedtriple on Monday 14th December 11:24
The switch pack comes both permenant and sporadic shorts. Also it doesnt always keep the full k-bus awake.. the GM still sends the shut down authorisation which sends everyone to sleep. Then at random times the system will wake up due to short...The first one I did took 2 weeks to find, had to use a long term ociloscope which showed every 5-6 hours the system would wake and stay awake for an hour then go back to sleep.
yes, the 'A' pillar connector is disconnected with the door open at the rubber flexi...on the body end of the flexi there is an 8mm bolt head counter sunk..you need to undo this then push connector up, tilt and then out...it is tight the first time you do one. In an ideal world a 1/4 drive ratchet with 8mm socket is needed.
Again yes the switch pack is tight to come out but will...Here a small flat blade screwdriver (2 ideally) some tape to prevent scratching.
yes, the 'A' pillar connector is disconnected with the door open at the rubber flexi...on the body end of the flexi there is an 8mm bolt head counter sunk..you need to undo this then push connector up, tilt and then out...it is tight the first time you do one. In an ideal world a 1/4 drive ratchet with 8mm socket is needed.
Again yes the switch pack is tight to come out but will...Here a small flat blade screwdriver (2 ideally) some tape to prevent scratching.
Edited by < FORZA WEST on Monday 14th December 16:36
Not sure I have resolved it !
Currently I'm trying to remember to 'cripple' the switchpack whenever I leave the car, but prob only 50% of the time .....
I havent had a recurrance since the one documented in the thread - and then again I havent left the car unused for more than 24 hours either for once !
I have put a voltmeter across the battery to monitor state of charge daily - 2 weeks back it had dropped to 12.24 volts (circa 50% charge)for no obvious reason (ie no real difference in useage / mileage / ancilleries used) .... it came back up to 12.65 ish a couple of days later when I did a longer run. I think yesterday it was 12.6ish still, and I've only been doing 20 min daily journeys since Xmas.... I'm wondering if the multiple drains may have degraded the battery a tad - altho its only 15 months old (i got a 100ah version from TANYA online)
When testing batterys voltage - make sure its 'rested' after use or after an actual charge for a few hours - or remove the 'float' charge by using main beam for a couple of minutes....
Engine / alternator running & in play - the digimeter (across the battery, not the alternator) shows 14.05 volts unloaded at tickover, and about 13.7 I recall, loaded with all bells and whistles fired up at 3K rpm. So in theory its getting a charge....I might get a voltmeter that plugs into the cigar lighter, so that I can monitor more easily
The fallback I had last year was to charge it for 24 hours with a CeTek intelligent charger every month ....
Check that the earth strap from engine to body is making a good connection btw. (nearside of car by the washer bottle etc)
Hope this helps a tad !
Currently I'm trying to remember to 'cripple' the switchpack whenever I leave the car, but prob only 50% of the time .....
I havent had a recurrance since the one documented in the thread - and then again I havent left the car unused for more than 24 hours either for once !
I have put a voltmeter across the battery to monitor state of charge daily - 2 weeks back it had dropped to 12.24 volts (circa 50% charge)for no obvious reason (ie no real difference in useage / mileage / ancilleries used) .... it came back up to 12.65 ish a couple of days later when I did a longer run. I think yesterday it was 12.6ish still, and I've only been doing 20 min daily journeys since Xmas.... I'm wondering if the multiple drains may have degraded the battery a tad - altho its only 15 months old (i got a 100ah version from TANYA online)
When testing batterys voltage - make sure its 'rested' after use or after an actual charge for a few hours - or remove the 'float' charge by using main beam for a couple of minutes....
Engine / alternator running & in play - the digimeter (across the battery, not the alternator) shows 14.05 volts unloaded at tickover, and about 13.7 I recall, loaded with all bells and whistles fired up at 3K rpm. So in theory its getting a charge....I might get a voltmeter that plugs into the cigar lighter, so that I can monitor more easily
The fallback I had last year was to charge it for 24 hours with a CeTek intelligent charger every month ....
Check that the earth strap from engine to body is making a good connection btw. (nearside of car by the washer bottle etc)
Hope this helps a tad !
HIS LM said:
Hi Speedtriple,
I have the same problem with my 2003 530i battery runs down and discharges for no apparent reason and don't know where to start how did you resolve your problem ?
forgot to say - I'm assuming you've taken the HEDGEHOG posts into account - tis the first place to start I'd say ..... I have the same problem with my 2003 530i battery runs down and discharges for no apparent reason and don't know where to start how did you resolve your problem ?
HIS LM said:
Hi Speedtriple,
I have'nt touched anything as yet is there anyway to check the hedgehog or is it a case of suck it and see
I think the only way to find out is to sit in the car very quietly for 10 minutes or so after switching off, one of the symptoms is that the blower keeps running, but very low so it is hard to hear. I have'nt touched anything as yet is there anyway to check the hedgehog or is it a case of suck it and see
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