Why heel and toe?
Discussion
Just been watching the Japanese video of the TVR on the tracks. I've noticed the drivers "healing and toeing".
Basically, when they brake, they blip the accelerator with the right heal.
This matches engine revs to vehicle speed, to make downshifts smoother right?
Is there any point in doing this on public road or is it just for circuit driving?
Thanks
Basically, when they brake, they blip the accelerator with the right heal.
This matches engine revs to vehicle speed, to make downshifts smoother right?
Is there any point in doing this on public road or is it just for circuit driving?
Thanks
I had an old XR3i that actually required this for fast down shifts since the gearbox was knackered.
It was a brilliant learning tool and i loved it!
Becuase of this I would imagine that H&T applies less strain to the gearbox as well as keep the revs on the go ready for blasting on once past the apex.
But Im no expert, I just enjoy doing it and the sound it makes!
(Left foot braking on certain slight bends certainly makes a difference too).
It was a brilliant learning tool and i loved it!
Becuase of this I would imagine that H&T applies less strain to the gearbox as well as keep the revs on the go ready for blasting on once past the apex.
But Im no expert, I just enjoy doing it and the sound it makes!
(Left foot braking on certain slight bends certainly makes a difference too).
)There have been several posts recently about this, so a dig through the archives will bring up a lot more info.
Basically though, you "heel and toe" to match engine revs to the speed of the car when you change down into a lower gear. This avoids the rear wheels snatching when you bring the clutch up, which can cause them to lock up - especially if you are already braking heavily.
In most cars, you don't actually use your heel or toe, but rather brake with the ball of your foot just under your big toe, and blip the throttle with the right hand side of your foot.
Pedal position is important here, and it isn't always possible to do in certain cars.
Basically though, you "heel and toe" to match engine revs to the speed of the car when you change down into a lower gear. This avoids the rear wheels snatching when you bring the clutch up, which can cause them to lock up - especially if you are already braking heavily.
In most cars, you don't actually use your heel or toe, but rather brake with the ball of your foot just under your big toe, and blip the throttle with the right hand side of your foot.
Pedal position is important here, and it isn't always possible to do in certain cars.
WildfireS3 said:
So you blip the throttle with the right heel? Or the right toe? I do it with the heel in the mini, but someone told me I should be doing this with the toe.
I think it depends on the setup/distance between the pedals really, and what ever suits you.
I have always rolled my foot in the same manner that Ed talks about.
ie, apply pressure to brake with left side of foot and then roll it to the right to blip the throttle whilst maintaining brake pressure.
IMHO I think it's better from a safety point of view to use the ball of the foot/toes on the brake and the side/heel on the throttle. Its more important to have the 'feel' of the pedal on the brake. You cant really feel anything with your heel and would be likely to lock up if you shoved it on the slow pedal.
>> Edited by jam1et on Wednesday 14th January 14:37
>> Edited by jam1et on Wednesday 14th January 14:37
Dan said:
I thought it had something to do with not using the clutch on racing cars hence the necessaty to match the revs.
Err, no. If you're not using the clutch, why do you need to press 3 pedals at once, and thence "heel & toe"? Perhaps you're getting confused with left-foot-braking?
The point is to match the revs during a down-change whilst simultaneously braking.
Double de-clutching isn't necassary with a modern car with sycromesh.
Heel and Toeing as stated above is to match engine revs to the wheel roads speed.
Apart from being very satisfying and sounding good it has an important safty aspect when linked with a powerful engine.
Imagine you are getting a move on in damp or slippery conditions and you are brakeing down to a corner and changing down at the same time(I know IAM suggest changing gear after you have completed the brakeing, but thats never happens...real world) your caris thus under brakeing with the weight transfered to the front of the vehicle, when you let the clutch out in secound(say) and the engine is doing nearly 1000rpm(idle-because the clutch is in) the wheels need the engine to turn at 4000rpm(say) the gearbox sycromesh has to spin the engine back to 4000rpm(resulting in wear to the sycro). In a small 1.0l hatchback the engine has little torque hence the grip of the wheels to road are ample to speed the engine revs up.
In a RWD 350bhp torquey motor the engine could overcome the grip of the rear wheels and lock them up untill the engine gets up to it's 4000rpm. End result is a skid and if the car isn't quite in a straight line a very sideways/hedge moment.
I've rambled a bit know and it is quite complictaed but suffice it to say a car driven aggresively without being double declutched is far less stable when under brakeing and changing gears with a far higher likelyhood of a scenery visit.
I'm guessing but I imagine this effect of torque locking the rear wheels is probebly the cause of a few hedge visits, and the drivers will never know or understand why, because it goes far quicker than oversteer, it is similar to hitting the handbrake!!!
Hope this helps.
>> Edited by Fish on Wednesday 14th January 15:09
Heel and Toeing as stated above is to match engine revs to the wheel roads speed.
Apart from being very satisfying and sounding good it has an important safty aspect when linked with a powerful engine.
Imagine you are getting a move on in damp or slippery conditions and you are brakeing down to a corner and changing down at the same time(I know IAM suggest changing gear after you have completed the brakeing, but thats never happens...real world) your caris thus under brakeing with the weight transfered to the front of the vehicle, when you let the clutch out in secound(say) and the engine is doing nearly 1000rpm(idle-because the clutch is in) the wheels need the engine to turn at 4000rpm(say) the gearbox sycromesh has to spin the engine back to 4000rpm(resulting in wear to the sycro). In a small 1.0l hatchback the engine has little torque hence the grip of the wheels to road are ample to speed the engine revs up.
In a RWD 350bhp torquey motor the engine could overcome the grip of the rear wheels and lock them up untill the engine gets up to it's 4000rpm. End result is a skid and if the car isn't quite in a straight line a very sideways/hedge moment.
I've rambled a bit know and it is quite complictaed but suffice it to say a car driven aggresively without being double declutched is far less stable when under brakeing and changing gears with a far higher likelyhood of a scenery visit.
I'm guessing but I imagine this effect of torque locking the rear wheels is probebly the cause of a few hedge visits, and the drivers will never know or understand why, because it goes far quicker than oversteer, it is similar to hitting the handbrake!!!
Hope this helps.
>> Edited by Fish on Wednesday 14th January 15:09
Good post Fish.
Reminded me of when we used to drive little Bedord Rascal pickups (when empty) at the refinery.
On the quiet roads we could get up a fair bit of speed and then whack it in a low gear and let the clutch out quick. This would lock the back wheels up for a fantastic slide down the road!
Loads of fun with a tiny engine(<1.0) in a rusty piece of shite!
Reminded me of when we used to drive little Bedord Rascal pickups (when empty) at the refinery.
On the quiet roads we could get up a fair bit of speed and then whack it in a low gear and let the clutch out quick. This would lock the back wheels up for a fantastic slide down the road!
Loads of fun with a tiny engine(<1.0) in a rusty piece of shite!
I had a fright with the V8S the first time I took it out in the wet as the result of engine braking. Coming up to roundabout and let clutch out, locked back wheels. Managed to recover, but could have been nasty. The extra torque is some thing to be aware of.
That said, the standard box on the V8S is crap for heel toe because of the accel being lower than the brake. I keep meaning to fix this. Be careful when first trying out the technique not to catapult your self in to the corner by suing too much heel and letting the clutch out early
Fortunatly I had been playing at it for years in my golf before I got the TVR.
Z
That said, the standard box on the V8S is crap for heel toe because of the accel being lower than the brake. I keep meaning to fix this. Be careful when first trying out the technique not to catapult your self in to the corner by suing too much heel and letting the clutch out early
Fortunatly I had been playing at it for years in my golf before I got the TVR.
Z
admiral said:
So, is there any point heel and toeing, if you don't double de-declutch?
Totally. Double de-clutching is like heeling and toeing, but with an extra step in the middle (going into neutral and bringing the clutch up).
DDC isn't required, however H&T is a useful skill to learn.
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