Aston Martin V12 Vantage RS
Discussion
No, but it does raise the question of why Aston Martin has lowered the performance of the V12 Vantage so much. Most of the newer super cars are all coming out with sub 4 second 0-60 speed figures. In the latest "Car" magazine they test the V12V against other super cars and it doesn't come out really well in the performance stakes. The R8 V10 and the Lambo's are all considered to be better performing.
Today I met up with a friend who has an 08 Porsche 911 Turbo. We drove each others car, and gave them both a bit of a thrashing. He loved my V12 Vantage and thought it was definitely special - more refined and grown up than the Porsche. But we both agreed that the 911 was significantly quicker and more fun to drive. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the V12 Vantage and would have it over the Porsche any day of the week, but I keep asking myself why has Aston Martin short changed the performance of this car, when we all know the V12 engine is capable of so much more?? I really don't understand their policy of producing cars that lack the ultimate performance - especially when they produce such powerful race cars.
Today I met up with a friend who has an 08 Porsche 911 Turbo. We drove each others car, and gave them both a bit of a thrashing. He loved my V12 Vantage and thought it was definitely special - more refined and grown up than the Porsche. But we both agreed that the 911 was significantly quicker and more fun to drive. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the V12 Vantage and would have it over the Porsche any day of the week, but I keep asking myself why has Aston Martin short changed the performance of this car, when we all know the V12 engine is capable of so much more?? I really don't understand their policy of producing cars that lack the ultimate performance - especially when they produce such powerful race cars.
Tacitus, I am fortunate to have a 997tt and a V12 Vantage and drive the cars back to back. It is really chalk and cheese. The V12 Vantage feels more like a brutal muscle car compared to the Porsche which is more clinical. The steering is heavier, the drama is everywhere and the noise is intoxicating. The real difference is not the 0 - 60 mph time but they way the two cars put the power on the road. It is very difficult to get the Porsche out of shape with its superb traction and four wheel drive whereas the Aston spins the rear wheels at the slightest push of throttle especially in the wet or when the Pirelli P Zero Corsas are not yet warmed up. You wrestle the Aston much more than the Porsche. Another big difference is the linear power delivery of the Aston where torque is everywhere and in every gear. With the Porsche this is not the case. It is either there or not at all. I have not read the Car article but I think the Lambo and the Audi are much more like the Porsche and the Aston stands out as being something altogether special. I would actually claim that the Porsche, Audi and Lambos are more refined but that the Aston is more old school that actually bites back and requires more respect and I don't see how you could possibly manage to get more horsepower on the road with rear wheel drive only.
Edited by clorenzen on Saturday 24th October 00:39
bogie said:
well at least it still keeps a 12K service interval as a daily driver sportscar
most Italian stuff is 6K, so 2x as expensive to run for those that use their cars
I dont mind them knocking 50bhp off it, if it saves me a couple of grand a year
A very good point, I can't imagine they would have sold many V12's if they kept the tuned race engine from the RS concept in it !! It would need a rebuild every few hundred miles most Italian stuff is 6K, so 2x as expensive to run for those that use their cars
I dont mind them knocking 50bhp off it, if it saves me a couple of grand a year
:J: said:
A very good point, I can't imagine they would have sold many V12's if they kept the tuned race engine from the RS concept in it !! It would need a rebuild every few hundred miles
Well actually the story I heard was that when Aston Martin were first test driving the V12V, the test drivers were reporting the car was crazy quick and very wild. When they measured the power they were getting close to 1000bhp. Apparently they then realised they had put one of the V12 engines out of one of the race cars into the Vantage. So by comparison to the race cars, the 600bhp they were getting out of the normal engine is not that highly tuned. Besides, there are a number of street cars that are getting 600bhp that don't need to be rebuilt every few hundred miles.Clorenzen, you are indeed a lucky man to own both cars. I was more impressed with the Porsche 911 Turbo than I wanted to be. I certainly agree with you that the V12V is more muscular and possibly even brutal by comparison. One of the reasons I bought it is because it reminds me of an old fashioned sports car. When I was talking about refinement, we were talking about the specialness of the cabin of the V12V, the looks, and even things like the quietness of the cabin from road noise. Also because the Turbo puts down its power so well and safely, it is the car I would have liked to drive around when I was a teenager (too many years ago to mention). Now - there is no debate - the V12V is THE car.
As far as wanting more performance out of this car, the 911 turbo is definitely quicker than the V12V and shows what is possible. Yet I am sure with a little tuning, the V12V could match the 911 for pace, without sacrificing too much on the economy side of things. The reaction of the journalist at the end of this clip sums it up for me, when he gets beat by a GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRMYIJqWkM&fea...
As far as wanting more performance out of this car, the 911 turbo is definitely quicker than the V12V and shows what is possible. Yet I am sure with a little tuning, the V12V could match the 911 for pace, without sacrificing too much on the economy side of things. The reaction of the journalist at the end of this clip sums it up for me, when he gets beat by a GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRMYIJqWkM&fea...
Tacitus said:
Clorenzen, you are indeed a lucky man to own both cars. I was more impressed with the Porsche 911 Turbo than I wanted to be. I certainly agree with you that the V12V is more muscular and possibly even brutal by comparison. One of the reasons I bought it is because it reminds me of an old fashioned sports car. When I was talking about refinement, we were talking about the specialness of the cabin of the V12V, the looks, and even things like the quietness of the cabin from road noise. Also because the Turbo puts down its power so well and safely, it is the car I would have liked to drive around when I was a teenager (too many years ago to mention). Now - there is no debate - the V12V is THE car.
As far as wanting more performance out of this car, the 911 turbo is definitely quicker than the V12V and shows what is possible. Yet I am sure with a little tuning, the V12V could match the 911 for pace, without sacrificing too much on the economy side of things. The reaction of the journalist at the end of this clip sums it up for me, when he gets beat by a GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRMYIJqWkM&fea...
Hmm looks like a GT2 to me.......As far as wanting more performance out of this car, the 911 turbo is definitely quicker than the V12V and shows what is possible. Yet I am sure with a little tuning, the V12V could match the 911 for pace, without sacrificing too much on the economy side of things. The reaction of the journalist at the end of this clip sums it up for me, when he gets beat by a GT3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRMYIJqWkM&fea...
It is a GT2 as Stanwan rightly points out. I seriously doubt that you would be able to get even more power down on the road with a rear wheel drive only car such as the V12 Vantage. The GT2 manages that better due to its position of the engine but then there is a reason for why this is called the "widowmaker" because unlike with the Aston, if you loose the GT2 it is difficult to hail back whereas the Aston is beautifully controllable. I have only owned the V12 Vantage for 2 weeks so haven't really pushed the envelope but this car wants to go sidewards in every round about and it is great fun doing so.
Tacitus said:
:J: said:
A very good point, I can't imagine they would have sold many V12's if they kept the tuned race engine from the RS concept in it !! It would need a rebuild every few hundred miles
Well actually the story I heard was that when Aston Martin were first test driving the V12V, the test drivers were reporting the car was crazy quick and very wild. When they measured the power they were getting close to 1000bhp. Apparently they then realised they had put one of the V12 engines out of one of the race cars into the Vantage. So by comparison to the race cars, the 600bhp they were getting out of the normal engine is not that highly tuned. Besides, there are a number of street cars that are getting 600bhp that don't need to be rebuilt every few hundred miles.The V12 is only good for circa 600bhp even after Prodrive have built it (with air restrictors). In the RS, with the unrestricted air flow and top fuel they were getting an estimated 650bhp.
I would probably never tell the story of Aston not realising they had dropped a race engine in it ever again, because for one, it is a load of rubbish
Can you honestly imagine that Prodrive wouldn't have realised that they picked up a dry sumped race engine instead of a standard V12 ? They had to plumb the dry sump system into the boot, so I am pretty sure they were fully aware they didn't have a standard wet sumped V12 on their hands Edited by :J: on Tuesday 27th October 10:35
Well J, thanks for clarifying that. I obviously heard the story wrong, and bow to your superior knowledge. I won't dare tell the story again!! Nor does it seem there are many on here that believe the V12V should have been enabled to get closer to the 600bhp of the RS Concept. I will now leave the subject alone - at least on this forum. By the way I apologise for stating it was a GT3 when clearly the video says it was a GT2 - I only realised my mistake after I posted.
Tacitus said:
Well J, thanks for clarifying that. I obviously heard the story wrong, and bow to your superior knowledge. I won't dare tell the story again!! Nor does it seem there are many on here that believe the V12V should have been enabled to get closer to the 600bhp of the RS Concept. I will now leave the subject alone - at least on this forum. By the way I apologise for stating it was a GT3 when clearly the video says it was a GT2 - I only realised my mistake after I posted.
No need to be like that 
RS Concept - 650bhp - rebuild every few hundred miles...... (even with restricted 600 bhp it would be the same interval)
V12V - 510bhp - rebuild every 12 thousand miles....
You could buy an N24 with the DBR V12 lump, get Prodrive to remove the restrictors and stick some super fuel in it. Bingo, you pretty much have the concept
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