De cat pipes, linked or not?
De cat pipes, linked or not?
Author
Discussion

high52kojak

Original Poster:

505 posts

227 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
What are peoples opinions on de-cat pipes being linked to balance the system as opposed to just straight pipes?
More power on linked? Different sound?

Mine are currently just the straight type but considering getting a whole new system and may go the linked route?

I know on the cross-plane V8s its common practice to have a 'H' pipe or whatever to link them but on a flat plane engine are the benefits the same?

Edited by high52kojak on Friday 23 October 20:59

itiejim

1,822 posts

235 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Usually on a flat plane crank v8 you want to leave them separate. However, I believe that with the unusual 75 degree v of the ajp there are some scavenging benefits to be had with the linked pipes.

Scrooloose

888 posts

246 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
I believe that it can aid power gains at high revs, but not massively. I could of course be wrong....

optimax sniffer

1,817 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Scrooloose said:
I believe that it can aid power gains at high revs, but not massively. I could of course be wrong....
A bit more power can be gained, the linked pipes also make it quieter by a few Db.

When I changed my exhaust I went to non linked pipes.

Allandwf

1,773 posts

225 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Hi,
I've often wondered about this too, but have never actualy seen the linked pipes. Has anyone a link to the linked type,so to speak?

R44DOR

103 posts

283 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
The linked pipes will give some required back pressure

markh1

2,846 posts

239 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
mine are adjustable length non-linked but I might get my dad who is quite handy on with stainless welding to link them. Any opinions as to what diameter the lonk bit should be?

Tanguero

4,535 posts

231 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
On mine the link diameter is the same as the pipes it joins.

Allandwf

1,773 posts

225 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Anyone know where I can buy the linked type of decat for the 4.2? Tried looking up the usual places but just seem to have the straight through pairs.

Chuggaboom

1,152 posts

278 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Although I have no hard evidence (there never is on engine faults) but based on a discussion with a renowned engine builder of several yrs experience with Tuscan racing inc AJP, a secondary issue raised by the subject of another thread here on PH does highlight the possible best choices of exhaust system design appropriate to the AJP (flat plane) v old style V8 (cross plane).

Other than that, a previous bristol region member suffered a catastrophic failure post fitting linked pipes.

While no relationship between the two events can be confirmed as absolute, in my eyes there is no smoke without fire, so re the links on the other thread explain why/when linked pipes are applicable, I would advise against the fitting of linked pipes on the AJP....stick with the straight throughs.

But that's my own opinion based on what I have read and heard.

Buyer beware.

Tanguero

4,535 posts

231 months

Friday 23rd October 2009
quotequote all
Allandwf said:
Anyone know where I can buy the linked type of decat for the 4.2? Tried looking up the usual places but just seem to have the straight through pairs.
I got mine from Joo (spitfire4v8) though it was a while ago and I don't kow if he still does hem. If you ask him I am sure he will be able to tell you biggrin

Steve_T

6,356 posts

302 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
Last time it was discussed Andy at APM was very much against it.

Allandwf

1,773 posts

225 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
Hmmmmm... thanks gents. Think It will be the straight throughs for me then.

markh1

2,846 posts

239 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
Likewise! I will stick with what I have got!

spitfire4v8

4,025 posts

211 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
Chuggaboom said:
Although I have no hard evidence (there never is on engine faults) but based on a discussion with a renowned engine builder of several yrs experience with Tuscan racing inc AJP, a secondary issue raised by the subject of another thread here on PH does highlight the possible best choices of exhaust system design appropriate to the AJP (flat plane) v old style V8 (cross plane).

Other than that, a previous bristol region member suffered a catastrophic failure post fitting linked pipes.

While no relationship between the two events can be confirmed as absolute, in my eyes there is no smoke without fire, so re the links on the other thread explain why/when linked pipes are applicable, I would advise against the fitting of linked pipes on the AJP....stick with the straight throughs.

But that's my own opinion based on what I have read and heard.

Buyer beware.
what renowned engine builder? if it's the person I think it is then what he was saying was complete and utter bks. the linked decats add about 1.5% to the total airflow .. the engine failure they saw caused by a weak mixture would have needed something like a 20% increase in airflow. he was talking out of his arse.

optimax sniffer

1,817 posts

245 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
Chuggaboom said:
Although I have no hard evidence (there never is on engine faults) but based on a discussion with a renowned engine builder of several yrs experience with Tuscan racing inc AJP, a secondary issue raised by the subject of another thread here on PH does highlight the possible best choices of exhaust system design appropriate to the AJP (flat plane) v old style V8 (cross plane).

Other than that, a previous bristol region member suffered a catastrophic failure post fitting linked pipes.

While no relationship between the two events can be confirmed as absolute, in my eyes there is no smoke without fire, so re the links on the other thread explain why/when linked pipes are applicable, I would advise against the fitting of linked pipes on the AJP....stick with the straight throughs.

But that's my own opinion based on what I have read and heard.

Buyer beware.
I too heard the story, and spoke to the various parties involved, which led me to the non-linked route. Although the cerb probably would have been fine with linked, I thought sods law mine would develop a problem. The thing to bear in mind with the story above is that there are hundreds of cerbs with linked pipes which run perfectly well. I wasn't after outright bhp/torque so wasn't too bothered about a few extra ponies that the linked pipes supply. When Joo fitted the whirlwind, SP exhaust & decats, he also did re-mapped it, this gave me peace of mind that it was running as best it could be. With the Bristol cerb that failed, it could have been a faulty map & the fact that engine failed after the linked de-cats were fitted could be co-incidence. We will never know. I took the owner of the failed engine out in mine last week for a run, which he thoroughly enjoyed.

I don't understand why the linked / non-linked work differently even though I've had it explained to me properly paperbag

I got my pipes from Matt at Silverstone Performance, who could supply either linked or non linked. He had to get a pair of linked pipes cut and blanked off for me hehe






JensenA

5,671 posts

260 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
I too have heard the story that you shouldn't have linked pipes, I was told "The AJPV8 should be treated as 2 separate engines, they need to be kept separate"
However I have am SP system with linked de-cats. SP did a lot of work to get the exhaust system right. ACT do linked systems, Joo recomends linked systems, and all those guys know what they are talking about.

Bottom line...The linked or non-linked debate needs clarifying by an expert, and not discussed based on hearsay and rumour.

Gazzab

21,649 posts

312 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
I think from my limited reading that the exhaust link changes the vacuum and pulsing and therefore the mix/efficiency in the combustion chamber? I guess this might be where an engine builder rather than a tuner might have concerns? Not that I share their concerns. I dont know enough!

spitfire4v8

4,025 posts

211 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
It's probably also important to point out that the idea for linking the pipes was initially proposed by an ex cosworth employee who is well versed in engine development at the highest levels of motorsport, hardly the sort of person you'd expect to propose something fundamentally flawed ...

high52kojak

Original Poster:

505 posts

227 months

Saturday 24th October 2009
quotequote all
From what I have read, the flat plane V8 does not need balancing as its basically two straight four pots sharing the same crank. Not sure what effect the unusual 75 degree angle makes though.
A local exhaust manufacturer was suprised to see mine was not balanced, but he is used to doing American V8s.
He makes a very good looking 'X' piece for balancing, something I may be getting done to mine.