I love my Kitcar, but.....
Discussion
Here is one for you, you have built / bought your kit and been using it for a while. What do you think it is missing, change, dissapointed you, or not what you were expecting???
I'll get started, my Sylva Phoenix R1.....
I LOVE it, but after luckily (if you call breaking your own car 250 miles from home lucky) getting to drive a mates Caterham R400-and-bit-more home from Zolder in Belgium, I really miss changing gear in a manual "H" gate gearbox!!!! I know the sequential gearbox is great, fast, fun ect. but for me there is something special about smoothly slotting a gear through a nice "H" gate. I have been lucky enough to have driven several Ferraris ( 328, 348, 355) which all had the classic chrome gate on the manual box, awesome, and my Phoenix would be perfect for me with a 6-speed H gate gearbox! I also miss not having to heel-and-toe on downshifts, no need on a BEC or even the Caterham with its light flywheel. Strangely, I DON'T miss a windscreen, roof, reverse gear or heater.
I'll get started, my Sylva Phoenix R1.....
I LOVE it, but after luckily (if you call breaking your own car 250 miles from home lucky) getting to drive a mates Caterham R400-and-bit-more home from Zolder in Belgium, I really miss changing gear in a manual "H" gate gearbox!!!! I know the sequential gearbox is great, fast, fun ect. but for me there is something special about smoothly slotting a gear through a nice "H" gate. I have been lucky enough to have driven several Ferraris ( 328, 348, 355) which all had the classic chrome gate on the manual box, awesome, and my Phoenix would be perfect for me with a 6-speed H gate gearbox! I also miss not having to heel-and-toe on downshifts, no need on a BEC or even the Caterham with its light flywheel. Strangely, I DON'T miss a windscreen, roof, reverse gear or heater.
singlecoil said:
The last one I did own, I would have preferred the suspension softer.
I'd agree with this... far too many people these days think thant because ultra-stiff springs and damping work well on the track, they are the way to go for road use, as well.If you've ever driven an Elan, you'll know that you don't need stiff springs to give outstanding grip and handling, and everything is a lot more progressive and predictable (not to mention more comfortable!) when you have a sensible level of compliance.
Singlecoil; are you able to tell us what is 'interesting' about your current mid-engined project?
Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 25th October 19:55
My Striker had awful, rubbish gear ratios. Far far too long and suffers from the normal standard Type-9 problem - 1st too short, everything else too widely space. Geared for 180 odd mph in top really isn't that useful and the spacing between 2nd and 3rd especially was horrible.
It's now got a Caterham 6 speed in it instead, which should be much better. I'll find out on Friday at Oulton Park (provided I finish putting it back together in time...)
It's now got a Caterham 6 speed in it instead, which should be much better. I'll find out on Friday at Oulton Park (provided I finish putting it back together in time...)
I love the sequential on my R1 having spent 5 years with a Type 9 5 speed. Changing gears is so much quicker when "giving it some beans". I do miss the dropping down gears, from say 5th to 3rd in one go, instead of 6th,5th,4th,3rd.
Also prefer the car with no windscreen (areo), no doors, no heater, grp seats and no carpets. I dont miss reverse either.
The difference from a x-flow to a bike engine is the revs, im still getting used to changing gears at 10,000rpm instead of 5,000rpm.......... its addictive.
Also prefer the car with no windscreen (areo), no doors, no heater, grp seats and no carpets. I dont miss reverse either.
The difference from a x-flow to a bike engine is the revs, im still getting used to changing gears at 10,000rpm instead of 5,000rpm.......... its addictive.
Sam_68 said:
Singlecoil; are you able to tell us what is 'interesting' about your current mid-engined project?
There are actually two projects. The first is one which, if it goes anead, will involve my modifying certain aspects of an existing project, which is actually built abroad, to make it suitable to be sold in kit form. It will be a premium kit and I anticipate that a very high proportion of the necessary parts will be included in the kit, probably only leaving the builder to supply the power unit and individual taste items such as wheels, steering wheel seats etc. Ought to be able to qualify for a new registration.
The project may not go ahead, though, so I am preparing a fall back position which will also be mid-engined, but which will be less sophisticated and require more from the builder, although it will be quite a bit cheaper. This car will be very much styled in the manner of a sports racing car of the 80's. If the first project does go ahead, this project will probably not be taken any further, or will be sold on, as ther is only one of me and I will want to concentrate my time and energy on the first project.
As other people are involved I can't say any more at the moment, unfortunately.
Edited by singlecoil on Sunday 25th October 20:31
Furyblade_Lee said:
Here is one for you, you have built / bought your kit and been using it for a while. What do you think it is missing, change, dissapointed you, or not what you were expecting???
I'll get started, my Sylva Phoenix R1.....
I LOVE it, but after luckily (if you call breaking your own car 250 miles from home lucky) getting to drive a mates Caterham R400-and-bit-more home from Zolder in Belgium, I really miss changing gear in a manual "H" gate gearbox!!!! I know the sequential gearbox is great, fast, fun ect. but for me there is something special about smoothly slotting a gear through a nice "H" gate. I have been lucky enough to have driven several Ferraris ( 328, 348, 355) which all had the classic chrome gate on the manual box, awesome, and my Phoenix would be perfect for me with a 6-speed H gate gearbox! I also miss not having to heel-and-toe on downshifts, no need on a BEC or even the Caterham with its light flywheel. Strangely, I DON'T miss a windscreen, roof, reverse gear or heater.
LOL. I'm nearly three years in now. I find all manual gear shifts just so slow after a drive in my Fury R1. I love the paddle shift and the way you can slot gears without having to take your hands off the wheel. With a quick rack, it's almost a 'must have' feature. You'd still be reaching for the gear lever after I'd changed gear :-)I'll get started, my Sylva Phoenix R1.....
I LOVE it, but after luckily (if you call breaking your own car 250 miles from home lucky) getting to drive a mates Caterham R400-and-bit-more home from Zolder in Belgium, I really miss changing gear in a manual "H" gate gearbox!!!! I know the sequential gearbox is great, fast, fun ect. but for me there is something special about smoothly slotting a gear through a nice "H" gate. I have been lucky enough to have driven several Ferraris ( 328, 348, 355) which all had the classic chrome gate on the manual box, awesome, and my Phoenix would be perfect for me with a 6-speed H gate gearbox! I also miss not having to heel-and-toe on downshifts, no need on a BEC or even the Caterham with its light flywheel. Strangely, I DON'T miss a windscreen, roof, reverse gear or heater.
What I really want is a bit more brake feel, like my old Lotus Elise. My Fury R1 stops quicker but doesn't have quite the same feel. I'm going to blow an obscene amount of cash upgrading them over the winter :-)
One other thing I'd like is a limited slip diff. It's slightly scary spinning the wheels at 70mph in 4th gear, when you pull out to over take. Would help me exit corners quicker on track too.
Other than that I don't miss a windscreen, heater, reverse gear, etc. either. I like the rawness, the madness of it all, the way it changes direction and its uniqueness. You don't feel envy when you have built your own car to your own specification. Everything else is just 'factory built' :-)
Went into my garage last night to find my soldering iron. Got stuck just looking at my car for ten minutes (sad I know). No other innanimate object I own has such an effect on my emotions.
Rob
I'd like a heater, a longer diff, lower seats for more head room, a spare set of wheels with winter tyres on, a slightly different dash design, some wiring tidying and more power. You've got to have something on the go though. It'll probably never be finished. 
It's done over 9000 miles in about 18 months though so at least it's getting used.
It's done over 9000 miles in about 18 months though so at least it's getting used.For me, it is everything I expected and more really. I just love the car to bits and cannot think of another car I would rather be in at a trackday, other than maybe a Caterham R500.
The only slight issue I have with it is that on certain tracks it feels slow accelerating at high speeds. Some tracks you don't even notice, such as Anglesey, Brands Indy, Oulton and Cadwell, but others you really do. But I was well aware they significantly slow down at higher speeds before I got the car so it is not really a dissapointment.
I don't intend to go down any modified engine route as that makes the Busa's much more unreliable, but will be getting a custom decat made up which will help at least. In fact one that was test fitted earlier this year but was too big made the car feel like lightning, it felt like it normally does with 1 person, but with 2...that gives you an idea of the difference it made in acceleration.
The only slight issue I have with it is that on certain tracks it feels slow accelerating at high speeds. Some tracks you don't even notice, such as Anglesey, Brands Indy, Oulton and Cadwell, but others you really do. But I was well aware they significantly slow down at higher speeds before I got the car so it is not really a dissapointment.
I don't intend to go down any modified engine route as that makes the Busa's much more unreliable, but will be getting a custom decat made up which will help at least. In fact one that was test fitted earlier this year but was too big made the car feel like lightning, it felt like it normally does with 1 person, but with 2...that gives you an idea of the difference it made in acceleration.
I love my Caterham, but for road use it could do with a brake servo, a normal centrally-mounted handbrake and er, well that's about it for the design. It is painful to use on long journeys (5,000rpm at a sedate motorway pace, un-padded race seat and no sound deadening...) but that's part of the minimalist brief I reckon. My particular example could do with a lick of paint on the shiny side and some waxoyl on the underside, but that's hardly a factor of the design.
Chris! You should have got a BEC! Ha Ha! Mine is only 6,000 is at 70mph!!!!
An LSD is an absolute must in my opinion in a kit. Having owned and driven both on road and track, rain or shine, I cannot see any advantage in not having one. So much safer and controllable on the limit. And great for showing off.
An LSD is an absolute must in my opinion in a kit. Having owned and driven both on road and track, rain or shine, I cannot see any advantage in not having one. So much safer and controllable on the limit. And great for showing off.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Chris! You should have got a BEC! Ha Ha! Mine is only 6,000 is at 70mph!!!!
Actually a tuned K-Series with a short ratio 6-speed box does feel rather like a bike powertrain. It 'only' revs to about 8,000rpm, but it feels pretty manic, particularly with the banshee induction noise just in front of your nose.
yes, I was surprised when I drove the Caterham back from Belgium, it was not really any more relaxed than my BEC! Helmet on, aeroscreen, high revs... We did manage to do a few laps together around Zolder, My Phoenix R1 v 210bhp Caterham. He had Toyo 888's on and I had my Yoko 21 road tyres. They were pretty similar laptime wise, I noticed the Caterham pulled away a bit on the exits of corners unless I was brutal with the revs to keep it in the powerband. Giving him a bit due to better tyres, I think the Caterham had the edge but not as much as much a 50bhp advantage would suggest. I want his Caterham though! Also his car is Nitron equipped and mine Protech, I was expecting his to ride much better than mine on the road but I did not think it did, I am impressed with the Protechs which were 1/3 the cost.
Furyblade_Lee said:
My Phoenix R1 v 210bhp Caterham ... I think the Caterham had the edge but not as much as much a 50bhp advantage would suggest.
Yep. There's no getting round it: the aerodynamics are shocking on the Seven. I get the impression that a well setup Phoenix would be at least on a par with a Caterham dynamically anyway, but the real advantage presumably comes at high speeds?You hear annecdotes of people being 'x' miles an hour faster at the end of a long straight in a fully-enclosed car, but it's not until you experience it that you see just how big the difference is. I've only magaed one track day with the Caterham so far, but there it was up with the fastest cars out of the slow corners, yet even very ordinary machines were streaming past at the end of the long straight. You can really see it in the fuel economy too - 518kg wet makes it remarkably economical blatting around at lowish speeds on B-roads, but the moment you hit a motorway at a sustained 0.8 leptons it drops right down. Rumour has it the Seven profile produces quite a lot of lift too, but mine felt fine in a straight line at over 120mph indicated.
Chris apparently those front cycle wings with flat tops and air vents in them help to reduce lift on 7's. Also (not very practical on a Caterham) Mel from Raw took one of his Strikers and made exit vents on the side panneling ( by flaring them out at the bulkhead a couple of inches) and he said it gave him 5mph more top speed.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Chris! You should have got a BEC! Ha Ha! Mine is only 6,000 is at 70mph!!!!
An LSD is an absolute must in my opinion in a kit. Having owned and driven both on road and track, rain or shine, I cannot see any advantage in not having one. So much safer and controllable on the limit. And great for showing off.
What diff are you running to get that, Im at 7,000 at 70MPH!!An LSD is an absolute must in my opinion in a kit. Having owned and driven both on road and track, rain or shine, I cannot see any advantage in not having one. So much safer and controllable on the limit. And great for showing off.
That's what I miss, reasonable cruising revs.
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