When does "working class" become "middle class"?
When does "working class" become "middle class"?

Poll: When does "working class" become "middle class"?

Total Members Polled: 277

Working class = benefits class, simples!: 3%
Below £10k: 0%
£10k-£15k: 1%
£15k-£20k: 1%
£20k-£30k: 8%
£30k-£40k: 10%
£40k-£60k: 4%
£60k +: 3%
More to it than earnings: 70%
Author
Discussion

Jonny_

Original Poster:

4,548 posts

224 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
Inspired by the thread about middle classes and benefits: based on individual earnings (that's EARNINGS, NOT the amount that the state will give chav tribes for having umpteen kids), where do YOU, the mighty PHer, draw the line between "Working class" and "Middle class"?

Do you consider "working class" to now mean the "non working class" (i.e. the "benefit class")? Or do you think it's decided by more than just your earnings? (As an example, an estate agent may earn the same as a bricklayer, but are they in different classes?)

This is no doubt a large can of worms, but what the hell... should make for some interesting debate/slanging matches biggrin

Edited by Jonny_ on Sunday 25th October 13:58

koolchris99

12,027 posts

196 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
there is more to it than earnings...

i know many chavs who earn more than 60k but i would still consider them working class.. and i know many people who earn pittance but i would consider middle class or upper class..

HOGEPH

5,249 posts

203 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
Quote from the classic sitcom Porridge. Fletcher discussing class with Mackay,

Fletcher: "I used to think I was working class and then I went up to Glasgow and realised I was middle class"

Engineer1

10,486 posts

226 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
Middle class is a combination of Educational achievement, employment, pay and aspirations. To live the classic middle class life style, his and hers cars family holiday abroad every summer and the odd additional weekend away probably requires £30K plus.

koolchris99

12,027 posts

196 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
30K?!?!?!

2 kids going to school is gonna cost you at least 40k....

elster

17,517 posts

227 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
Class can not be gained with money, therefore it can't be financially based.

fido

17,885 posts

272 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
A. Michael Carroll - middle class?

esselte

14,626 posts

284 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
How does income define class?

BarnatosGhost

31,608 posts

270 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
when you can afford a huge TV but for whatever reason, choose not to have one

Tomlev40

351 posts

197 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
You can't always base it on earnings. You might be earning £££ but you could live in a shed.

elster

17,517 posts

227 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
Tomlev40 said:
You can't always base it on earnings. You might be earning £££ but you could live in a shed.
What has that also got to do with class? That is still basing it on financial status.

Fort Jefferson

8,237 posts

239 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
esselte said:
How does income define class?
BarnatosGhost said:
When you can afford a huge TV but for whatever reason, choose not to have one.
Or when you can stay in a five star hotel and not steal things.

esselte

14,626 posts

284 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
BarnatosGhost said:
when you can afford a huge TV but for whatever reason, choose not to have one
You'd best not tell Derestrictor his customers are chavs.. smile

elster

17,517 posts

227 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
It is more to do with manners, your social status and education.

The Americans are the ones who relate class to wealth.

ShadownINja

78,790 posts

299 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
The stopping of benefits can't really be down to class. Dunno why anyone states this. Means testing is purely about income, isn't it?

BarnatosGhost said:
when you can afford a huge TV but for whatever reason, choose not to have one
rofl


ShadownINja

78,790 posts

299 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
elster said:
It is more to do with manners, your social status and education.
so m8 you sayin dat if you was to speak proper youd lose benefits n state penshun?? dats well outa orda i better practise speakin common innit

Northern Munkee

5,354 posts

217 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
It may have a relation to money, but class isn't about money. Someone post the link to Stephen Ireland's car thread, it'll show that class isn't solely about cash.

And although it also doesn't define class, its as much to do with manners, outlook, behaviour and overly used and completely misunderstood word "respect".

My next door neighbour, she's self employed, goes abroad 4 or 5 times a year, drives a white 1 series BMW, and like all her friends has wannabe wag, written all her and her peroxide blonde hair. Outwardly demonstrating middle class aspirations, however the way she, her family & her friends behave around the place, much to the annoyance of her surrounding neighbours, you can see they are trying too hard and betray themselves in other respects, as little better than chavs. While her neighbours, all brought up by working class parents, trades and skilled, have considerably more class.

I used to describe myself as working class, I work to live, but as my brother pointed out once when I described myself as that, said, well think about it, you live in a leafy suburb, you own your own home, you're civil servant, you have your own business (part time), and even your parents, stay at home mum, father skilled, management, were not working class, even if that's where they came from. I lie around the house wearing raggy arsed trackie bottoms, and battered old trainers, but wouldn't dream of going to work without a shirt & tie, nor attend a funeral in anything other a dark suit, white shirt black tie, certainly not a leather jacket.

It's actually a bit complicated. I don't really care about class, beyond some people have "class", and I have good friends who were born and were living in social housing who have, its the way you're brought up, while I see and meet many people these days who have no class at all.

I could probably be accused of being a snob, which is of course probably very middle class.

ShadownINja

78,790 posts

299 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
PS

Option 1: working class = benefits class.

That doesn't make sense.

Shay HTFC

3,588 posts

206 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
ShadownINja said:
PS

Option 1: working class = benefits class.

That doesn't make sense.
I think he meant they are one and the same. i.e. If you are not living off benefits, you are not working class

IforB

9,840 posts

246 months

Sunday 25th October 2009
quotequote all
If you give a toss about things like this, then you are middle class.