Bathurst S Auto

[phillg]

Is there such a creature?
A supercharged Auto version. ( Walkinshaw )
I was under the impression that they were only available in manual due to the Auto not coping with the extra power?

[leon britton]

Hi Phill, you going to souped up sunday at goodwood (Geoff is coming so maybe we can get him to get his wallet out for the sarnies )
B T W .Graham,s down at Picador is auto and supercharged and chatting ti him and Paul from Wortec a few days ago says it,fine

[donk r8]

I'am going, maybe see you there...................

[JakeR]

Check the classifieds mate... there sure is!

[phillg]

leon britton said:

Hi Phill, you going to souped up sunday at goodwood (Geoff is coming so maybe we can get him to get his wallet out for the sarnies )
B T W .Graham,s down at Picador is auto and supercharged and chatting ti him and Paul from Wortec a few days ago says it,fine

I had thought of going,
Has Geoff got a new car then as I'm not sure any of his qualify

Edited by phillg on Wednesday 28th October 18:23

[phillg]

JakeR said:

Check the classifieds mate... there sure is!

Thanks
I've seen the ads,however when I ordered my last auto VXR8,I was told the S only came as a manual,and so did all the write ups and literature.
Thats what made me wonder.

[leon britton]

phillg said:

leon britton said:

Hi Phill, you going to souped up sunday at goodwood (Geoff is coming so maybe we can get him to get his wallet out for the sarnies )
B T W .Graham,s down at Picador is auto and supercharged and chatting ti him and Paul from Wortec a few days ago says it,fine

I had thought of going,
Has Geoff got a new car then as I'm not sure any of his qualify

Edited by phillg on Wednesday 28th October 18:23

Well maybe he considers the Ferrari soooouped up, any way hope to see you there, if you fancy a small convoy I can meet you in sainsburys just after 7 am. I will make sure Geoff wears his trousers with just the meadium depth pockets

[Trailermasher]

phillg said:

Is there such a creature?
A supercharged Auto version. ( Walkinshaw )
I was under the impression that they were only available in manual due to the Auto not coping with the extra power?

Officially, no.

But you can get the std auto LS3 take it to Walkinshaw's, have the same s/c, suspension, etc., added and end up with the same thing.

[eliot]

And do Walkinshaw underwrite the 6L80e gearbox? They will take more power if they are mapped correctly - but they wont like being abused. Wortec may be looking at supercharger conversions for autos - you would need to ask though.
I've currently got the GM 6l80e technicians guide coming over from the states for a little bit of late night reading material

[phillg]

The reason for asking is that a couple of main dealers are advertising them for sale ( heron white vxr8 bathurst S auto ).

[DougieMc]

[quote=phillg]Is there such a creature?
A supercharged Auto version. ( Walkinshaw )
quote]

Yes 3 Bathurst S Auto's were made

[JakeR]

I really dont understand the whole Autobox vs Manual box, can it take the power or not argument...

for example,

the infamous BMW 335d is only an auto because 'the manual box cant take the torque'

the above comments about the supercharged VXR8s needing to be manual as 'the autobox cant take the power'

Honda and some other manufacturers (Subaru?) dont do auto diesels, as the autoboxes 'cant handle the torque'

then you've got drag racers, which iirc, tend to be auto, as manual boxes 'cant handle the power'

ditto big power AMG Mercs and the like.

all of which leaves me utterly confused!

Can anyone please explain? I am totally happy to stand corrected if appropriate!!

[SOULCREW]

DougieMc said:

phillg said:

Is there such a creature?
A supercharged Auto version. ( Walkinshaw )
quote]

Yes 3 Bathurst S Auto's were made

what about the non supercharged version?

[robkarloff]

JakeR said:

I really dont understand the whole Autobox vs Manual box, can it take the power or not argument...

for example,

the infamous BMW 335d is only an auto because 'the manual box cant take the torque'

the above comments about the supercharged VXR8s needing to be manual as 'the autobox cant take the power'

Honda and some other manufacturers (Subaru?) dont do auto diesels, as the autoboxes 'cant handle the torque'

then you've got drag racers, which iirc, tend to be auto, as manual boxes 'cant handle the power'

ditto big power AMG Mercs and the like.

all of which leaves me utterly confused!

Can anyone please explain? I am totally happy to stand corrected if appropriate!!

Really depends on the boxes available to them and their design/construction. In drag racing, the old 2 speed Powerglide is king for a few reasons, namely the design is simple and aftermarket parts mean you can bolt it to almost anything and throw almost anything at it. You also only have 1 shift to worry about which means you are transferring power more of the overall time than with more shifts, and if your motor is stout enough then it's no loss not having a bunch of ratios there to keep your motor in it's sweet spot.

Autos have a series of clutches/bands in them, these wear more the harder they are abused in factory boxes resulting in slippage. Some shift improvers up the line pressure or speed the clutches are let out during changes which reduces the slippage/wear/heat, but makes for hard shifts. The torque convertor in auto boxes also multiplies the torque seen by the rest of the driveline, which means the gears/output shaft/propshaft/rearend/etc can sometimes give up instead.

Manuals have synchromesh cones/rings which wear, and they also don't have the cushioning effect that the torque convertor usually provides the internals of an autobox, so if you have monster power/torque and dump the clutch hard you shock the whole lot and something breaks. Factory boxes are also built to a spec and budget, so gears, bearings, shafts etc will only take so much.

So all your comments are kind of valid, it really comes down to the boxes a manufacturer has access to and can put behind a particular motor. Sometimes their auto will better cope with big output, sometimes their manuals will cope better.

[eliot]

robkarloff said:

Autos have a series of clutches/bands in them, these wear more the harder they are abused in factory boxes resulting in slippage. Some shift improvers up the line pressure or speed the clutches are let out during changes which reduces the slippage/wear/heat, but makes for hard shifts. The torque convertor in auto boxes also multiplies the torque seen by the rest of the driveline, which means the gears/output shaft/propshaft/rearend/etc can sometimes give up instead.

Manuals have synchromesh cones/rings which wear, and they also don't have the cushioning effect that the torque convertor usually provides the internals of an autobox, so if you have monster power/torque and dump the clutch hard you shock the whole lot and something breaks. Factory boxes are also built to a spec and budget, so gears, bearings, shafts etc will only take so much.

So all your comments are kind of valid, it really comes down to the boxes a manufacturer has access to and can put behind a particular motor. Sometimes their auto will better cope with big output, sometimes their manuals will cope better.

What he said really - here's a burnt clutchpack from a TH 700R4:
http://www.mez.co.uk/dcam/DSCF0923.JPG

OEM's like auto's because they are electronically controlled (along with the throttle) so they can reign in your aggressive right foot and protect the rest of the driveline.
All modern boxes including ours have "torque management" which consists of retarding the ignition during a shift, which reduces the torque as you change gear. Reducing the torque management (with efilive/hptuners) is possible - but you need to take it easy, otherwise you will end up burning up the clutches.
So yes you can put more power through them - but its an expensive process to find the envelope of the power handling capacity, which will consist of a few rebuilds.

[ringram]

Torque management helps. Until you remove it...

[JakeR]

Cheers guys for a pretty robust set of answers...

I guess my question stemmed from being fed a diet of BS by car salesmen...

[robkarloff]

Also drag racers like autos because you can't mis-shift like in a manual (although you can still delay a shift or make it too early which will impact your ET), and the other reason you don't see manuals is sheer cost. When you get into serious power/torque, you would be spending crazy money on a manual which would cope whereas you can build a dogs bollox Powerglide for much less. You can get into the Liberty/Lenco clutchless planetary manuals like Pro Modified and Top Methanol cars use, but they are seriously expensive and not really practical on the street (has been done tho).

[bennno]

Trailermasher said:

phillg said:

Is there such a creature?
A supercharged Auto version. ( Walkinshaw )
I was under the impression that they were only available in manual due to the Auto not coping with the extra power?

Officially, no.

But you can get the std auto LS3 take it to Walkinshaw's, have the same s/c, suspension, etc., added and end up with the same thing.

Not fully accurate the bathurst / bathurst S was sold as a post reg new car only conversion.

Some of the stock cars have other base options fitted eg Sat Nav or Auto.

Bennno

[V10JRR]

I drove Graham of Picador's supercharged auto VXR8 although at the time it was not fully tuned to the auto. It was great so much that I will be puuting one on my manual when I have the time.