smoked my clutch
Discussion
after i picked up sprogs testerday,i drove up to a roundabout in 3rd.
it was on a steepish hill so when i went to pull away i gave it a little throttle and sliped the clutch.
the car only moved slowly forward so i thought ,bugger its in 3rd, so i slipped clutch someore and gave it a bit more throttle,as you do.
still not a lot of movement,so i slip it into 1st to make sure,slip clutch again.
this is when i notice the clutch peddle is not coming back up[well very slowly]but eventually after a few secs clutch comes back up and i pull away as normal.
huge cloud of clutch smoke behind me and a lovely smell to entertain the kids on the way home.
the thing is did i,overheat the clutch and it sort of stuck apart.
or did the clutch fail and i was in 1st all the time???
it was on a steepish hill so when i went to pull away i gave it a little throttle and sliped the clutch.
the car only moved slowly forward so i thought ,bugger its in 3rd, so i slipped clutch someore and gave it a bit more throttle,as you do.
still not a lot of movement,so i slip it into 1st to make sure,slip clutch again.
this is when i notice the clutch peddle is not coming back up[well very slowly]but eventually after a few secs clutch comes back up and i pull away as normal.
huge cloud of clutch smoke behind me and a lovely smell to entertain the kids on the way home.
the thing is did i,overheat the clutch and it sort of stuck apart.
or did the clutch fail and i was in 1st all the time???
B4 you go changing the clutch try having the slave bleed properly as any clutch slipping will instantly heat up the clutch fluid and boil it which stops the clutch fully engaging. Common issue with these cars.
Ideally get a remote bleed kit fitted to your car (Rapid), that way you can routinely bleed it yourself, without this you cant!
Oh and dont just renew the master fluid and pump the peddle then replace again, it dont work! all you are doing is giving the clutch time to cool down which is what it needs.
Ideally get a remote bleed kit fitted to your car (Rapid), that way you can routinely bleed it yourself, without this you cant!
Oh and dont just renew the master fluid and pump the peddle then replace again, it dont work! all you are doing is giving the clutch time to cool down which is what it needs.
Common enough problem with the clutch. Get a syringe and have a go at renewing the fluid if it persists. Easy enough job. Details here - http://www.rangeracceleration.com/Clutch_Care.html
S800VXR said:
Oh and dont just renew the master fluid and pump the peddle then replace again, it dont work! all you are doing is giving the clutch time to cool down which is what it needs.
?? You can do this instead of the remote bleed, its a pain in the arse way of doing it and takes longer and more fluid but you can get a good result. Just empty master, fill with new, pump, repeat until no s
t shows in the fluid. Its as good as it gets without the remote valve, which the fish can also install and probably walkinshaws which is a lot closer for the OP.O/T but hows the new motor fairing up, you off to the salisbury RR day with Janspeed?
S800VXR said:
B4 you go changing the clutch try having the slave bleed properly as any clutch slipping will instantly heat up the clutch fluid and boil it which stops the clutch fully engaging. Common issue with these cars.
Ideally get a remote bleed kit fitted to your car (Rapid), that way you can routinely bleed it yourself, without this you cant!
Oh and dont just renew the master fluid and pump the peddle then replace again, it dont work! all you are doing is giving the clutch time to cool down which is what it needs.
Ideally get a remote bleed kit fitted to your car (Rapid), that way you can routinely bleed it yourself, without this you cant!
Oh and dont just renew the master fluid and pump the peddle then replace again, it dont work! all you are doing is giving the clutch time to cool down which is what it needs.
It can't instantly heat up, there is a very long tortuous heat path from the friction surfaces to the fluid. The fluid is nicely heatsinked to the front of the gearbox. The parts in the path are steel and steel is not a good conductor of heat.
Mines done this from new, any spirited driving leaves the pedal on the floor and quite often a cloud of smoke, clutch is slipping all the time now and slight juddering on pulling away so is being replaced with uprated item.....will be intresting to have a look at it when it comes out to see if there is a problem............
The radial release bearing is ally, its right next to the main point of heat and slipping the clutch will heat it very fast. Sucking out the master cylinder will do next to nothing FFS, the single line down to the slave acts as a solid block of fluid when you depress the clutch so fk all comes back up, not enough to sort the problem out! Im talking from an engineering view point and not from an owners view point. VXR8's are the same set up as the Ro and suffer the same.
If you do a search on the net the states guys document what happens once you get through this waffle about syringing out the master. The release bearing is right in amounst it unlike normal setups where the slave acts on an arm and as such is away from the moving hot parts.
k all comes back up, not enough to sort the problem out! Im talking from an engineering view point and not from an owners view point. VXR8's are the same set up as the Ro and suffer the same. If you do a search on the net the states guys document what happens once you get through this waffle about syringing out the master. The release bearing is right in amounst it unlike normal setups where the slave acts on an arm and as such is away from the moving hot parts.
Edited by S800VXR on Thursday 29th October 20:12
granada203028 said:
1st is so tall, an easy mistake to make...
1st is left then forward.3rd is centre and forward.
I dont see how its that easy ? and there is still a fair jump between them in terms of ratios.
But either way, if you did actually smoke the clutch....you wont have done it, or the flywheel any favours.
I still don't see that the thermal path is there on the time scales reported. The heat has to soak through the pressure plate, belleville spring, release fingers, release bearing and in to the slave cylinder it's self.
I have had clutch slip once. I didn't notice any pedal anomalies just the very obvious smell and a slight judder for the next few days. My thoughts are when the friction disk starts to burn it evolves gas which lubricates the surfaces and forces them apart reducing the friction and bite further. So a runaway situation ensues. Let it all cool down and it is fine again.
When you depress the pedal, the main spring you are fighting is the belleville. If the friction disk expands or burning gases forces the plates apart against this spring, then the leaver action will pull the release fingers in, the slave cylinder follows them (due to its own spring) and the pedal drops.
I have had clutch slip once. I didn't notice any pedal anomalies just the very obvious smell and a slight judder for the next few days. My thoughts are when the friction disk starts to burn it evolves gas which lubricates the surfaces and forces them apart reducing the friction and bite further. So a runaway situation ensues. Let it all cool down and it is fine again.
When you depress the pedal, the main spring you are fighting is the belleville. If the friction disk expands or burning gases forces the plates apart against this spring, then the leaver action will pull the release fingers in, the slave cylinder follows them (due to its own spring) and the pedal drops.
stevieturbo said:
granada203028 said:
1st is so tall, an easy mistake to make...
1st is left then forward.3rd is centre and forward.
I dont see how its that easy ? and there is still a fair jump between them in terms of ratios.
But either way, if you did actually smoke the clutch....you wont have done it, or the flywheel any favours.
i coasted up to the roundabout in 3rd.
i cant remember if i put it into 1st.
as for the rest of your post....no s
t sherlock.
I can now see why the pedal goes "rock hard" as some owner's report. If the pedal has dropped, pumping it will restore it to its rest height but with more fluid taken from the reservoir. With the slave cylinder already at its extended position, further depressing the pedal just forces it against its stop and it can't move any further.
No st Sherlock indeed.
No s
t Sherlock indeed. Edited by granada203028 on Friday 30th October 10:08
Edited by granada203028 on Friday 30th October 10:09
granada203028 said:
I still don't see that the thermal path is there on the time scales reported. The heat has to soak through the pressure plate, belleville spring, release fingers, release bearing and in to the slave cylinder it's self.
I have had clutch slip once. I didn't notice any pedal anomalies just the very obvious smell and a slight judder for the next few days. My thoughts are when the friction disk starts to burn it evolves gas which lubricates the surfaces and forces them apart reducing the friction and bite further. So a runaway situation ensues. Let it all cool down and it is fine again.
When you depress the pedal, the main spring you are fighting is the belleville. If the friction disk expands or burning gases forces the plates apart against this spring, then the leaver action will pull the release fingers in, the slave cylinder follows them (due to its own spring) and the pedal drops.
The realease bearing and the slave are one unit....I have had clutch slip once. I didn't notice any pedal anomalies just the very obvious smell and a slight judder for the next few days. My thoughts are when the friction disk starts to burn it evolves gas which lubricates the surfaces and forces them apart reducing the friction and bite further. So a runaway situation ensues. Let it all cool down and it is fine again.
When you depress the pedal, the main spring you are fighting is the belleville. If the friction disk expands or burning gases forces the plates apart against this spring, then the leaver action will pull the release fingers in, the slave cylinder follows them (due to its own spring) and the pedal drops.
GreenV8S said:
S800VXR said:
The realease bearing and the slave are one unit....
If the slave is inside the bell housing, surely it has a remote bleed line? Otherwise it'd be impossible to bleed it, and it would be daft to make it like that.I always thought it was quite neat although access for bleeding may be a problem. Thing that's always struck me as being weird is that only you guys seem to have problems.
Something else which may or not be relevant is that any heat in the slave could be 'soaked' away into the gearbox casing but excessive heat may need more time to transfer?
Something else which may or not be relevant is that any heat in the slave could be 'soaked' away into the gearbox casing but excessive heat may need more time to transfer?
Wish there was a picture/diagram of the clutch release bearing, normally its a bearing that that pushes onto the fingers of the release mechanism, not sure what the ro's are like, mine makes a little bit of whiring noise when the clutch pedal comes up, and is worse when cold and when pulling away in 2nd gear.
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