That Channel 4 racism roleplay event thingie...
Discussion
What happened? If there hadn't have been some relatively interesting discussion and viewpoints given between the participants, this would have been the biggest TV let down for a while. Maybe I missed something that was actually quite enlightening, but it ended up just being black people saying they are victims of racism while white people said they were not racist.
I thought this really had the opportunity to be quite enlightening and I was highly looking forward to it, but never the less, channel 4 cocked it up by pandering to PCness.
The experiment was always going to fail on such a sensitive subject. It stopped being a blue eye / brown eye (oo er) experiment because everyone with blue eyes was automatically white and every ethnic minority obviously had brown eyes. So a racial divide was present, defeating the object of the experiment to have eye colour being the sole dividing factor.
As a result it all broke down when people could see exactly the direction in which it was going, resulting in ethnic minorities giving their personal opinions on the subject, then white people giving theirs, rather than letting the experiment do the talking.
The experiment should have been performed with just white people and as such, the existing 'variable' of race would have been removed and a quite interesting experiment could have taken place.
Ona side note, I was getting quite angry with that arrogant, smug teacher sitting at the back of the blue eyeds who couldn't fathom the possibility that she may be wrong in her opinion. And then she rattled on about her husband or someone having to play to the system by having to put on a shirt and cut his hair when he goes to work, completely missing out on the point that Mr. Black man can't just play to the system by putting on his white face when he goes to work.
Was anyone else getting a bit irate by the end of it? It was such a farce.
I thought this really had the opportunity to be quite enlightening and I was highly looking forward to it, but never the less, channel 4 cocked it up by pandering to PCness.
The experiment was always going to fail on such a sensitive subject. It stopped being a blue eye / brown eye (oo er) experiment because everyone with blue eyes was automatically white and every ethnic minority obviously had brown eyes. So a racial divide was present, defeating the object of the experiment to have eye colour being the sole dividing factor.
As a result it all broke down when people could see exactly the direction in which it was going, resulting in ethnic minorities giving their personal opinions on the subject, then white people giving theirs, rather than letting the experiment do the talking.
The experiment should have been performed with just white people and as such, the existing 'variable' of race would have been removed and a quite interesting experiment could have taken place.
Ona side note, I was getting quite angry with that arrogant, smug teacher sitting at the back of the blue eyeds who couldn't fathom the possibility that she may be wrong in her opinion. And then she rattled on about her husband or someone having to play to the system by having to put on a shirt and cut his hair when he goes to work, completely missing out on the point that Mr. Black man can't just play to the system by putting on his white face when he goes to work.
Was anyone else getting a bit irate by the end of it? It was such a farce.
I think I see what it was trying to say, racism is some special type of discrimination that white people can't perceive but is deemed extra wrong to use.
Add c
t to the following
blond
fat
black
old
short
blue-eyed
all picking on a physical characteristic but one is deemed more offensive than the others
Add c
t to the followingblond
fat
black
old
short
blue-eyed
all picking on a physical characteristic but one is deemed more offensive than the others
slideways said:
i thought they missed the point! it turned into a colour predudice debate, racism isnt just a white black thing you see it in all races
Absolutely. I know I'll get called a racist for this, but some of the most racist people I've ever met are black - oh, and it was mainly against other black people as well - African v Caribbean.
And THE most racist person I've ever known was Chinese. He attacked my mate, for dating his sister... He didn't want a white person touching his sister. They then (brother, father and uncle) threatened to kill him and chop his body up and dispose of it if he didn't go away and leave her alone.
Funny it's rare that it is noted that other races can be seriously racist too, it's not just white people.
I could see where they were coming from though in perspective of racism with regards to the system vs. a certain subgroup of people which I think is what was trying to be portrayed, it just came out crap.
I am very open to the point that there is subtle racism even as simple as making someone feel out of place solely due to their skin colour, even if nothing is actually done. Just like the man who said he didn't want to pick up his daughter. Nobody would be racist to him in the normal sense, but he would still be looked at as someone different through no fault of his own.
Much like in Africa, I was very aware that I was a white person in a room full of blacks, even though nobody insulted me or had a bad word to say. I have no doubt that when a black person goes into the post office, he is aware of being black, even if its more subtle than my experience. Surely the ideal outcome is that you can walk wherever and people don't even make the distinction that you are black and treat you just as if you were white. This doesn't mean noting that someone is black and intentionally not acting differently, it means not even really noticing that they are black in the first place, just like you don't really note someone for their ginger hair. This is obviously not the case right now and it will take time to become the case, if indeed that is what the British people of the future want.
edit: Agree that other cultures are generally much more racist with regards to saying "you can't marry this person" etc. This is cultural division that I think will gradually die out in different cultures that 'Westernise' as time progresses. Just like 40 years ago or so when my father wanted to marry my German mother, his parents were vehemently against it. I doubt any forward looking parents would object to their child marrying a German person these days though.
Much like I don't think your Chinese friend in 3 generations time would have as much trouble with choosing who he decides to date. (Providing his culture gradually integrated with Western 'open culture', which most seem to do, bar noteable exceptions)
I am very open to the point that there is subtle racism even as simple as making someone feel out of place solely due to their skin colour, even if nothing is actually done. Just like the man who said he didn't want to pick up his daughter. Nobody would be racist to him in the normal sense, but he would still be looked at as someone different through no fault of his own.
Much like in Africa, I was very aware that I was a white person in a room full of blacks, even though nobody insulted me or had a bad word to say. I have no doubt that when a black person goes into the post office, he is aware of being black, even if its more subtle than my experience. Surely the ideal outcome is that you can walk wherever and people don't even make the distinction that you are black and treat you just as if you were white. This doesn't mean noting that someone is black and intentionally not acting differently, it means not even really noticing that they are black in the first place, just like you don't really note someone for their ginger hair. This is obviously not the case right now and it will take time to become the case, if indeed that is what the British people of the future want.
edit: Agree that other cultures are generally much more racist with regards to saying "you can't marry this person" etc. This is cultural division that I think will gradually die out in different cultures that 'Westernise' as time progresses. Just like 40 years ago or so when my father wanted to marry my German mother, his parents were vehemently against it. I doubt any forward looking parents would object to their child marrying a German person these days though.
Much like I don't think your Chinese friend in 3 generations time would have as much trouble with choosing who he decides to date. (Providing his culture gradually integrated with Western 'open culture', which most seem to do, bar noteable exceptions)
Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 30th October 09:25
Jasandjules said:
slideways said:
i thought they missed the point! it turned into a colour predudice debate, racism isnt just a white black thing you see it in all races
Absolutely. I know I'll get called a racist for this, but some of the most racist people I've ever met are black - oh, and it was mainly against other black people as well - African v Caribbean.
And THE most racist person I've ever known was Chinese. He attacked my mate, for dating his sister... He didn't want a white person touching his sister. They then (brother, father and uncle) threatened to kill him and chop his body up and dispose of it if he didn't go away and leave her alone.
Funny it's rare that it is noted that other races can be seriously racist too, it's not just white people.
Basically the old codger who ran the thing had based her process on the assumption that only white people are racist. By seperating the blue eyed people she virtually guaranteed only white people in the minority group. That shows that she thinks other races and skin colours are not naturally racist and shows a very narrow point of view on her behalf.
She could have picked people at random instead of deliberatly picking white people for the minority group. That would have been a better representation of life but wouldn't have made such an interesting discussion. She wouldn't even answer the presenters points at the end of the show. She deliberately ignored his points and questions which didn't fit with her point of view.
Personally I thought it was a load of crap dreamt up by some american dame who had a massive chip on her shoulder about being white. Doing this exercise with school children is one thing but with adults who have life experience is something else.
She could have picked people at random instead of deliberatly picking white people for the minority group. That would have been a better representation of life but wouldn't have made such an interesting discussion. She wouldn't even answer the presenters points at the end of the show. She deliberately ignored his points and questions which didn't fit with her point of view.
Personally I thought it was a load of crap dreamt up by some american dame who had a massive chip on her shoulder about being white. Doing this exercise with school children is one thing but with adults who have life experience is something else.
Z4monster said:
Personally I thought it was a load of crap dreamt up by some american dame who had a massive chip on her shoulder about being white.
Agree completely! I only stumbled across the show and I found it deeply unsettling. Frankly the whole exercise was an absolute crock and theat little battleaxe needs lynched!Z4monster said:
Doing this exercise with school children is one thing but with adults who have life experience is something else.
I find the fact that children may be subject to this crap even more abhorrent!I thought the end was a bit of an anti-climax.
I thought it was going to be an observation of how easily people "become/show" their racism. e.g. the young black guy seemed very easily "turned" showing great weakness to become racist without too much pressure.
Then there was the white girl who grew up in a non-white country and suffered racism herself but it appeared the black woman didn't think this "counted" revealing some inner racism in herself.
All in all, I thought it was only half the show. I was expecting the lady to then show everyone examples of who was being racist (see above) and show it's in all of us, not matter what our colour.
I thought it was going to be an observation of how easily people "become/show" their racism. e.g. the young black guy seemed very easily "turned" showing great weakness to become racist without too much pressure.
Then there was the white girl who grew up in a non-white country and suffered racism herself but it appeared the black woman didn't think this "counted" revealing some inner racism in herself.
All in all, I thought it was only half the show. I was expecting the lady to then show everyone examples of who was being racist (see above) and show it's in all of us, not matter what our colour.
Flop.
I bet the commissioning editor has to put a book down his trousers when s/he goes into work today.
Jane Elliots methods are pretty much discrediited now with a more sophisticated audience who have all seen the original documentary and she makes a living from the talk circuit and training others to do the same thing.
I have one of her trainees in one of my courses in a few weeks who I think may need some 'adjustment'!
Missed opportunity. Pity.
I bet the commissioning editor has to put a book down his trousers when s/he goes into work today.
Jane Elliots methods are pretty much discrediited now with a more sophisticated audience who have all seen the original documentary and she makes a living from the talk circuit and training others to do the same thing.
I have one of her trainees in one of my courses in a few weeks who I think may need some 'adjustment'!
Missed opportunity. Pity.
Big Rod said:
Z4monster said:
Personally I thought it was a load of crap dreamt up by some american dame who had a massive chip on her shoulder about being white.
Agree completely! I only stumbled across the show and I found it deeply unsettling. Frankly the whole exercise was an absolute crock and theat little battleaxe needs lynched!Z4monster said:
Doing this exercise with school children is one thing but with adults who have life experience is something else.
I find the fact that children may be subject to this crap even more abhorrent!Dracoro said:
I thought the end was a bit of an anti-climax.
I thought it was going to be an observation of how easily people "become/show" their racism. e.g. the young black guy seemed very easily "turned" showing great weakness to become racist without too much pressure.
Then there was the white girl who grew up in a non-white country and suffered racism herself but it appeared the black woman didn't think this "counted" revealing some inner racism in herself.
All in all, I thought it was only half the show. I was expecting the lady to then show everyone examples of who was being racist (see above) and show it's in all of us, not matter what our colour.
I didnt see all of this but it appeared that the daft old bint running it seemed to think that not only were white people the only ones who could truly be racisct but that ALL white people were racist.I thought it was going to be an observation of how easily people "become/show" their racism. e.g. the young black guy seemed very easily "turned" showing great weakness to become racist without too much pressure.
Then there was the white girl who grew up in a non-white country and suffered racism herself but it appeared the black woman didn't think this "counted" revealing some inner racism in herself.
All in all, I thought it was only half the show. I was expecting the lady to then show everyone examples of who was being racist (see above) and show it's in all of us, not matter what our colour.
As a scientific experiment it was a complete farce, Daft Old Bint starts out convinced of her conclusions and then does everything possible to produce the outcome she wants. I thought it was hilarious when that one woman refused to play nice with her transparent manipulations in the test. She looked like she wanted to rip her head off!
I got the sense that we have got to a point where, by and large, there are no barriers to people of different races doing anything they want to do; racism now is just a manifestation of insecurities in the individual during a particular situation. Hence the comment 'racism in britain is very subtle'. That was followed by an example of whites being served before blacks in a queue; utter rubbish in my opinion. I have worked at a busy bar before, and may well have left some people waiting far longer than others purely by mistake. If i left a white guy waiting, he'll think 'crap barman' but if i leave a black or asian guy waiting he'll think i'm leaving him because of his skin colour. In actual fact, I was probably just serving all the girls first 
Barak Obama should be proof enough; skin colour is no barrier to success any more. When black/asian people under perform the assumption its because they've been treated unfairly because of their skin. Cynics say this is 'playing the race card', I think its because most black/asian people are brought up expecting to be persecuted, in the same way a fat person or disabled person would feel their appearance holds them back.
Barak Obama should be proof enough; skin colour is no barrier to success any more. When black/asian people under perform the assumption its because they've been treated unfairly because of their skin. Cynics say this is 'playing the race card', I think its because most black/asian people are brought up expecting to be persecuted, in the same way a fat person or disabled person would feel their appearance holds them back.
kenbher said:
her said: I got the sense that we have got to a point where, by and large, there are no barriers to people of different races doing anything they want to do; racism now is just a manifestation of insecurities in the individual during a particular situation. Hence the comment 'racism in britain is very subtle'. That was followed by an example of whites being served before blacks in a queue; utter rubbish in my opinion. I have worked at a busy bar before, and may well have left some people waiting far longer than others purely by mistake. If i left a white guy waiting, he'll think 'crap barman' but if i leave a black or asian guy waiting he'll think i'm leaving him because of his skin colour. In actual fact, I was probably just serving all the girls first
Barak Obama should be proof enough; skin colour is no barrier to success any more. When black/asian people under perform the assumption its because they've been treated unfairly because of their skin. Cynics say this is 'playing the race card', I think its because most black/asian people are brought up expecting to be persecuted, in the same way a fat person or disabled person would feel their appearance holds them back.
I agree that officially there is no racism, but I am open to the fact that things such as peoples mannerisms for example may be different around different races and that if you are in a room of white people you would feel different than if you were in a room full of black people solely because of the skin colour difference. I thought this show was going to highlight it, with the blue eyed people suddenly having a revelation and thought provoking insight into what it is like to be in the minority.Barak Obama should be proof enough; skin colour is no barrier to success any more. When black/asian people under perform the assumption its because they've been treated unfairly because of their skin. Cynics say this is 'playing the race card', I think its because most black/asian people are brought up expecting to be persecuted, in the same way a fat person or disabled person would feel their appearance holds them back.
But it didn't because the whole thing was not only totally predictable in how the experiment was set up to make people feel less valued, but also set up in a way that resembled old town America (incidentally the time when she first devised the experiment) complete with blatantly racist situations. In the UK ethnic minorities are not officially subjected to worse conditions than the majority in the ways perceived in the experiment. Whether this racism occurs in unofficial gatherings of people is open to question, but I doubt it happens to the extent displayed on the program.
Put simply, the experiment's racist conditions did not match those present in the UK today. It failed to address any of todays perceived racial inequalities. The most insightful part was the man explaining how he didn't pick up his child because he didn't want to be judged (which would happen in a leafy white village, but we all know that anyway)
As a side thought: It would have been a valuable experience for the people in the blue eyed group to run along with the test, just to get an insight into what it would be like to be a minority where you are treated as unequals. How many of us have honestly been in a minority situation where you are approached with disgust and treated like a lesser being? It would be a learning experience to see if how you imagine it would feel is the same as it does feel.
That woman who kicked up a fuss however, was so closed minded. She just didn't want to know. She didn't open her mind to any possibility other than the concrete thoughts she had in her head. How she was a teacher, I do not know!
I think that black people are just pissed off that we have an insulting word to use against them that has hundreds of years of history behind it.
The best they have is honky which I don't think a white person has ever been offended by.
This is a joke
The best they have is honky which I don't think a white person has ever been offended by.
This is a joke
Edited by Frankeh on Friday 30th October 11:45
Terry the teacher was embarrassing. She compared her husband having to wear a suit to work to a black person having to deal with racism.
"We all have to conform to something."
And she was a teacher. Then she confessed that she was surprised that a black kid in her class who scraped her knee or something bled the same colour as white people.
Total disgrace.
"We all have to conform to something."
And she was a teacher. Then she confessed that she was surprised that a black kid in her class who scraped her knee or something bled the same colour as white people.
Total disgrace.
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