Moving to Japan?

[Neil_H]

I posted this in the Asia forum but it appears to be a dead forum so hopefully I'll get a few responses here...My GF and I are seriously contemplating a move to Tokyo next year and was wondering if anyone has done the same (I know GlenMH has... Glen?) and could offer some advice. My GF is from Japan and her student visa runs out this time next year, and I think it may be difficult for her to work over here. I need a change and have fancied working in Tokyo for a while.

I work in derivatives and I know there are jobs over there for me, but how willing are companies to hire foreigners who aren't in Japan? I have no Japanese language other than a few rude words but will be taking lessons soon. I won't be business level for a while yet. Internal transfer within my current bank isn't possible unfortunately.

Any advice/ experiences gratefully received!

[Ozone]

Worst 'i've got a Japanese girlfriend from Tokyo' post ever

Good luck BTW.

Edited by Ozone on Tuesday 3rd November 13:05

[AntwerpMan]

Is there an asia forum? learn something new every day (posted from Hanoi)

[v15ben]

I can't find the thread at the minute, but Glen posted a link to his blog (might be in his profile) which is a very interesting look at life in Japan. Some good advice in there too. I'm looking at moving to South Korea next year - must be something in the PH waters as it were

[maximm]

mate of mine (who also works in derivatives) just moved to Tokyo. He had been out there quite a bit with his previous firm before he moved to another bank. He says its quite tough going as hardly anyone speaks any English so he finds that he has to socialise with work all the time. His mrs moved with him (she is Spanish) and she is finding it really hard as she cant find a job and the language problem is getting to her. But he reckons it will be worth it once he gets through the teething problems as its an amazing place.

[Dupont666]

how do people break into it?

Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan?

Im in credit derv (swaps, TRS, CDS, etc) also and want to move to Asia to carry on my job, but I have always found:

1) need good reputation and a name in the industry.
2) already moved across there with no job lined up.
3) signed up to a rental contract on a flat for a home address
4) Available for interviews face to face
5) Sing needs a certificate to allow you to work (paid for by you or company) but you need to live there already to get it unless of sponsership.

Otherwise they wont touch you with a barage pole.

So im always trying to get past the first hurdle of having my current job and apply to others as is the norm when looking.

[Neil_H]

That's what I'm afraid of, having to actually be in the country before they'll entertain the idea of employing you. Although I know that (in Japan at least) it's legal to interview for jobs when on a tourist visa. Bit of a risk to throw your job in and go out there without having a new job lined up....although if that was the only way I would be tempted to try it. You could always try and get a English teaching job while looking for something better.

The home address thing wouldn't be too much of a problem for me as my GF's sister lives in Tokyo and I could probably give her address.

[Dupont666]

First of all I would like to talk to a Recruitment company over there that is actually a UK company with British people, that understand what the workers from Britain are going through and need to do to get there.

I get fked off with the emails stating:

We think you are so good for the job and are definately a candidate, blah, blah, blah, please reply back with the following:

Current salary
Desired salary
Skills
availablity for interview.

So if you can find a recruitment company over there that kind of works like they do over here in UK and not like above, then that is a start rather than banging your head into mush against a brick wall...

(sorry for wanting UK bods, but of the 40+ attempts I have done that is my findings....)

[Neil_H]

I know a few agencies I've used over here have branches over there (some off the top of my head; Hays, Michael Page, Morgan Mckinley), so my plan is to get contacts from them, with recommendations if possible etc.

I wanted to get clued up a bit more about the process first though. I also generally find that it's much, much better to phone rather than email.

[Dupont666]

Neil_H said:

I know a few agencies I've used over here have branches over there (some off the top of my head; Hays, Michael Page, Morgan Mckinley), so my plan is to get contacts from them, with recommendations if possible etc.

I wanted to get clued up a bit more about the process first though. I also generally find that it's much, much better to phone rather than email.

Even then you get put in touch with their Asia branch and then its like watching a bunch of tards try to fk a door knob...

Im with robert walter and they couldn't grasp the concept of what I wanted to do, whether I talked to them in person (on the phone to singapore, etc) or via email, once I explained to them and then they put me on their books and the usual cack came through....

rang them up and asked them what I needed to sort out what I needed to do to be eligiable to work over there and then that was promised in an email and the next one across was the "what salary email"....

It got so frustrating and their london branch said they couldnt help.

[Newc]

Neil_H said:

I work in derivatives and I know there are jobs over there for me, but how willing are companies to hire foreigners who aren't in Japan? I have no Japanese language other than a few rude words but will be taking lessons soon. I won't be business level for a while yet. Internal transfer within my current bank isn't possible unfortunately.

Really difficult for a non speaker - the company has to show why they're hiring a foreigner against a local or existing resident foreigner. You have to have a compelling skill to get through that and get a visa.

By a long long way the best way to get in is via an intercompany transfer, so much so that you are better off moving to a company in the UK with strong Japanese opportunities and transferring that way. You used to have to do a minimum of 12 months with the employer too before moving - that may have changed though. (All this assumes you're after a bank job - if you want to teach english or go hostessing you can get a visa more easily though usually only for a finite period)(and yes there are male hostess clubs).

Also, sorry to say but you will never be business fluent by taking lessons. You have to live there and use it all the time, and it will still take 4 or 5 years to get to a reasonable level of competence.

Hope that's useful.

Edited by Newc on Tuesday 3rd November 22:21

[Marquis_Rex]

My sister lived in Japan for many years. She loved it and i visited her many times. My sister and me are VERY different people and that's how I know that Japan or any of the Far eastern countries hold no appeal for me whatsoever when it comes to LIVING.
They're very polite but the politeness is used as a barrier to keep Gaijin or foreigners at a distance.
Crime is very low and there is definately a real petrolhead scene out there.
I don't fancy your chances in getting a job out there easily. Do you speak Japanese?

[Neil_H]

I spent 3 weeks there in Sept/Oct with half in Tokyo, half out at my GFs parents on Kyushu, and I know for a fact that I'm well suited to Japanese culture/ living. That isn't a problem at all. Language would be a problem, but I'm keen to learn and I have my own personal tutor/ translator.

Sounds like the job hunting will be a problem. Thanks for the advice so far, keep it coming...

[Newc]

Neil_H said:

Language would be a problem, but I'm keen to learn and I have my own personal tutor/ translator.

She has told you about Male and Female Japanese speech hasn't she ? There are numerous chaps in Japan ordering a big manly beer and a cigar using cute girly vocabulary and intonation they learnt from their missus...

[Wacky Racer]

Whatever you do, don't mention the war............

[johnfm]

Does this mean there'll be two jobs available in banking shortly...

[Neil_H]

Newc said:

Neil_H said:

Language would be a problem, but I'm keen to learn and I have my own personal tutor/ translator.

She has told you about Male and Female Japanese speech hasn't she ? There are numerous chaps in Japan ordering a big manly beer and a cigar using cute girly vocabulary and intonation they learnt from their missus...

I'm aware of that, but not at the stage of having to worry about it yet...

[GlenMH]

Newc said:

By a long long way the best way to get in is via an intercompany transfer, so much so that you are better off moving to a company in the UK with strong Japanese opportunities and transferring that way. You used to have to do a minimum of 12 months with the employer too before moving - that may have changed though. (All this assumes you're after a bank job - if you want to teach english or go hostessing you can get a visa more easily though usually only for a finite period)(and yes there are male hostess clubs).

Also, sorry to say but you will never be business fluent by taking lessons. You have to live there and use it all the time, and it will still take 4 or 5 years to get to a reasonable level of competence.

Hope that's useful.

Wot 'e said about visas is very very true. My wife came over here as an intracompany transferee and it certainly was the best way to do it. The visa process is easier and coming here as an expat should mean a better standard of living due to accommodation allowances etc. All the visa info you will ever need is here: http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/index.html

Do not underestimate the cost of living here: 7 quid for a beer, 2 quid for an apple(!), rice at 4 quid/kilo, cheese at 3-10 quid per 100g. Running a mobile out here is ruinously expensive. Eating out ranges from 7-10 quid for a lunch set up to whatever you want to pay/can afford. TVs and home appliances are mind-bogglingly expensive compared to the UK. We have a flat near the middle of Tokyo that costs SWMBO's company nearly a grand a week rent, over 150 quid/month each for gas and electricity. At least companies pay for commuting, though. Most companies uplift salary by about 30% compared with the UK and it is not enough. You should be aiming for 50%+.

I have updated my profile with the location of my blog which has some of the fun and games we have seen over the last 14 months here. It has been interesting, entertaining and frustrating in equal measure! As has been pointed out, being a gaijin means that you have to acknowledge that there are some bars/clubs/events that are permanently off limits as you will never be Japanese. The time difference is a pain if you are in to live sport too. The 6 nations rugby nearly killed me last year!

As for applying for jobs, yes the usual recruitment agents are over here but they are useful as chocolate fireguards for people who aren't bilingual....

If you have any q's, then please drop me a PM...

Edited by GlenMH on Wednesday 4th November 09:29

[Neil_H]

How are your language skills Glen? Do you manage ok with official documents, restaurant menus etc? My missus lived in Tokyo for a few years so I think we're well prepared for the costs, to be honest when I was out there it didn't seem a lot different to London prices. We ate out every night (non-touristy places, with signs that were only in Japanese for example) and even in Ginza we would only pay about £40-50 with drinks for a good meal. I looked at laptops and they were almost identical in price (Asus EEE PC was 33,000 yen which is about £220, roughly the same over here). I did like the fresh fish prices too...!

I'm getting less optimistic about job prospects. As a last resort my gf and I could do the big 'M' but I don't want to do that out of necessity.

[GlenMH]

Neil_H said:

How are your language skills Glen? Do you manage ok with official documents, restaurant menus etc?

It all depends on where you live. I am in Minato-ku which is a gaijin friendly part of Tokyo towards the south of the city and most official documents can be obtained in English. One of the advantages of an intracompany transfer is you get the services of a relocation agent who can help with getting your gaijin card sorted out. I had no issues sorting re-entry visas, driving licence etc with no J language skills at all. We had a friend who lived out in Chiba and she had a complete nightmare getting these things sorted out as there was no english whatsoever.

The big gotcha is banking. We use Shinsei which is cheap, has english online banking (far more primitive than the UK) and has an english speaking customer service desk. The only other people to offer that service is Citibank and the less said about them, the better..... Everyone else is pure Japanese service.

In terms of spoken language, I am nowhere near conversational but then I don't hear it all day every day, like my wife. TBH you can survive with about 50 words: hello, goodbye, please, thank you, beer, numbers, directions for taxi drivers etc and those are the words I use most. We can now read hiragana (japanese words) and katakana (foreign words written as J script) and have started learning some kanjis - about 15 now out of the 2000 odd you need to read a newspaper! Of all of those, katakana is the most important for restaurant menus. We have also ordered very successfully using the pictures on the menus or taking the waiter outside and pointing at the models. Mind you, it is not always what you thought it was going to be, when it arrives

Neil_H said:

My missus lived in Tokyo for a few years so I think we're well prepared for the costs, to be honest when I was out there it didn't seem a lot different to London prices. We ate out every night (non-touristy places, with signs that were only in Japanese for example) and even in Ginza we would only pay about £40-50 with drinks for a good meal. I looked at laptops and they were almost identical in price (Asus EEE PC was 33,000 yen which is about £220, roughly the same over here). I did like the fresh fish prices too...!

You are right about the cost of food. The big difference is beer, and wine can be monumentally expensive too.Interestingly, gin and other spirits are far better priced. The cost of fruit and veg is controlled by a cartel which is what keeps the prices high - you need to get to a supermarket to work out a: what is available and b: how much they are going to bend you over for it!

Take your point about laptops - depends if you want a J keyboard and OS... but I saved over 200 quid on a Nikon DSLR and lens in the UK (including claiming the VAT back) and don't get me started on TV prices: 50 inch plasma in the UK was around the 1200quid mark from DeR when I was looking at a Pioneer. Over here it was the thick end of 4 grand. I have just bought some Sennheiser Cx500 headphones from Amazon on a special in the UK for 20 quid. They are still over 100 GBP here. The japanese market works very differently: the brand is king and to drive sales, they put the price UP!

Neil_H said:

I'm getting less optimistic about job prospects. As a last resort my gf and I could do the big 'M' but I don't want to do that out of necessity.

We got married just before we came out, by coincidence, and the sad thing is that it does make life significantly easier. There is nothing stopping you coming over on a tourist visa to do job interviews - immigration are quite ok with that.