New Kit Car Headlamps
Discussion
Hello
I would like to hear your ideas as to what features you would like to see in a headlamp for your current or desired Kit Car.
I am currently undergoing a Final Automotive Design Project for University. My aim is to design a contemporary styled headlamp for use on open wheel style Kit Cars. I have industry experience with headlamp design and plan to see this project through to manufacture shortly after graduation. Please can you help me by using this forum to discuss the subject.
Key areas are:
-- Problems encountered with current models.
-- Styling needs (What car would you like to put them on and how would you like them to appear).
-- Features you would like to have or you feel are nesacery.
-- Price (How much would you be willing to pay if a headlamp met all your personal criteria).
-- Anything else you would like to add.
If you have read to this point I thank you very much for your time, it is greatly appreciated, any comments you have are very welcome.
Regards
Mike Gerrard
I would like to hear your ideas as to what features you would like to see in a headlamp for your current or desired Kit Car.
I am currently undergoing a Final Automotive Design Project for University. My aim is to design a contemporary styled headlamp for use on open wheel style Kit Cars. I have industry experience with headlamp design and plan to see this project through to manufacture shortly after graduation. Please can you help me by using this forum to discuss the subject.
Key areas are:
-- Problems encountered with current models.
-- Styling needs (What car would you like to put them on and how would you like them to appear).
-- Features you would like to have or you feel are nesacery.
-- Price (How much would you be willing to pay if a headlamp met all your personal criteria).
-- Anything else you would like to add.
If you have read to this point I thank you very much for your time, it is greatly appreciated, any comments you have are very welcome.
Regards
Mike Gerrard
Interesting concept, since most kit cars are condemned to using lights from 'elsewhere' rather than something that looks as if they are meant to be there.
I like the idea of lights which are properly integrated into the bodywork. This often means a compromise in the surrounding surfaces in order to accommodate an existing manufactured unit.
So, how about a unit where the optical work is all done in the reflector, with a plain glass. If you then have it so that the builder can trim the front edge of the light bucket to adjust the angle at which it fits in the bodywork, the same unit can be fitted into a range of surrounding panels. I've no idea how much an optically correct plain 'glass' front would be, but if you could then have a way of matching the differing elliptical requirements, you'd have a unit that could be used for many different applications.
There; you can tell I don't know what I'm talking about!
I like the idea of lights which are properly integrated into the bodywork. This often means a compromise in the surrounding surfaces in order to accommodate an existing manufactured unit.
So, how about a unit where the optical work is all done in the reflector, with a plain glass. If you then have it so that the builder can trim the front edge of the light bucket to adjust the angle at which it fits in the bodywork, the same unit can be fitted into a range of surrounding panels. I've no idea how much an optically correct plain 'glass' front would be, but if you could then have a way of matching the differing elliptical requirements, you'd have a unit that could be used for many different applications.
There; you can tell I don't know what I'm talking about!
As Paul said, a plain glass lens with the light bending done in the reflector. I think the new IVA rules also require daylight running lights to be fitted to new kit cars. The new Toniq R has these built into the nosecone. For open wheel application, maybe a bi optic unit so that main, dip sidelight and DRL were in one unit? (sevens traditionally have one pair of headlights, and indicators, at the front).
my main focus on lights is only 1 issue:
lights are supposed to lighten up the darkness.
so i dont care how lights look like. from the style they should match well to the car´s styling, but without any negative aspects on the safety.
if they illuminate the road well, without any compromise, they could look rectangular, round, squarish, small, big, little...incl. all the necessary legal thing like "E" marked and so on.
have you ever driven a seven with old school 7inch headlamps from a well known brand incl. high quality bulbs? thats a good standard, old-fashioned, but the result at nights is perfect!!!
dont tell me about xenon conversion kits, as these, legaly, need an self-levelling headlamp system, incl. a headlight cleaning device. maybe not in UK (i´m not aware about the legal situation there), but in all other european countries.
lights are supposed to lighten up the darkness.
so i dont care how lights look like. from the style they should match well to the car´s styling, but without any negative aspects on the safety.
if they illuminate the road well, without any compromise, they could look rectangular, round, squarish, small, big, little...incl. all the necessary legal thing like "E" marked and so on.
have you ever driven a seven with old school 7inch headlamps from a well known brand incl. high quality bulbs? thats a good standard, old-fashioned, but the result at nights is perfect!!!
dont tell me about xenon conversion kits, as these, legaly, need an self-levelling headlamp system, incl. a headlight cleaning device. maybe not in UK (i´m not aware about the legal situation there), but in all other european countries.
I would assume that you would have a side light in there already so what about incorporating the indicator in there too? Perhaps even incorporate the side repeater as this is going to be a problem for 7 style cars passing IVA with the rear arches getting in the way of the traditional mounting place for them.
Please note I am only going by what others have said re IVA. If I was you I'd have a read of the test document and see if you can spot something that no-one else is doing but would now be useful with the differences between the SVA and IVA.
Please note I am only going by what others have said re IVA. If I was you I'd have a read of the test document and see if you can spot something that no-one else is doing but would now be useful with the differences between the SVA and IVA.
How about a standard sized, i.e. 5.75 or 7 inch, unit that combines all the lighting requirements.
By "all" I mean dipped, main, side, indicator and fog all in the same unit.
Such a unit would fit existing cars (lots of existing cars) and provide a visual clean up. It would also be easier to fit as you'd only have to fit one light unit at each corner (OK then five lights if you include the rear number plate light).
By "all" I mean dipped, main, side, indicator and fog all in the same unit.
Such a unit would fit existing cars (lots of existing cars) and provide a visual clean up. It would also be easier to fit as you'd only have to fit one light unit at each corner (OK then five lights if you include the rear number plate light).
Coming from a bike engined car background, light output for current input is of greatest importance.
Let me explain, my R1 engined car has an alternator capable of generating 27A.
Two 60W car headlamp bulb take 10 Amps, and in a small 4" reflector, they don't really cut the mustard.
I could swap to HID, but I wouldn't pass an MOT as there is no levelling mechanism on the lights.
LED's (an array of three Soeul Semi P7's or the Cree equivilent) would easily generate enough light and only take 36W, but...
The body of the headlamp would need to become a heatsink to keep the LED's cool.
It would need a custom reflector to focus the array.
So I'd say that my ideal headlamp would be:
LED based.
High lumens for power consumed.
4" in diameter, for cycle winged cars (headlights on stalks).
How much? Well 3* P7's would be around $90 USD, so I would not be put off by £250 UKP.
Let me explain, my R1 engined car has an alternator capable of generating 27A.
Two 60W car headlamp bulb take 10 Amps, and in a small 4" reflector, they don't really cut the mustard.
I could swap to HID, but I wouldn't pass an MOT as there is no levelling mechanism on the lights.
LED's (an array of three Soeul Semi P7's or the Cree equivilent) would easily generate enough light and only take 36W, but...
The body of the headlamp would need to become a heatsink to keep the LED's cool.
It would need a custom reflector to focus the array.
So I'd say that my ideal headlamp would be:
LED based.
High lumens for power consumed.
4" in diameter, for cycle winged cars (headlights on stalks).
How much? Well 3* P7's would be around $90 USD, so I would not be put off by £250 UKP.
mikeveal said:
I could swap to HID, but I wouldn't pass an MOT as there is no levelling mechanism on the lights.
you will pass an MOT with HIDs in you just won't be road legal as it won't pass C&U regs- those guys who say HID is legal with lights that have levelling switches are wrong- the lights require automatic self levelling systems. The real problem with fitting HIDS in normal sockets is that the reflectors aren't developed properly.
Creating an all-in-one road legal tiwn beam HID would be totally cool and a manufacturer would sell a LOT, but the technology might be problematical!
pugwash4x4 said:
you will pass an MOT with HIDs in you just won't be road legal as it won't pass C&U regs- those guys who say HID is legal with lights that have levelling switches are wrong- the lights require automatic self levelling systems.
Bit of a grey area this.. My car has factory HID lights with only a dash mounted adjuster.
pugwash4x4 said:
The real problem with fitting HIDS in normal sockets is that the reflectors aren't developed properly.
Spot on.. HID kits in a reflector type headlight will give a lot of glare to other road users and all kinds of nasty hot spots on the road, stay well clear, will also only give you dipped beam pattern.. You can buy a H4 kit that gives you dip and mains but relies on a crude type of solenoid that moves the HID bulb backwards and forwards.. This is bad as when you go from dip to main you get a slight delay as the bulb moves forward to mimic the position of the generic twin filament of a halogen H4 bulb..With a bit of thought and skill ( most of you should have this if you are building a kit car ) a pair of Bosch Bi-Xenon Projectors for example, BMW M3.. are nice and compact and would retro fit into most projector style headlight units.
This set up would be ideal.. you would have proper HID dip beams ( nice OEM sharp projector beams ) then a proper HID main beam without losing the dips..
Within the Bi-Xenon projector there is a shield that moves when you go to mains leaving the dips as they are but giving you a high beam at the same time.. no bulb movement, no delay, just instant light and a lot of it!
Feel free to PM me for any info on HID lighting
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