Somebody's seen Scum too many times

[The Hypno-Toad]

Looked to see if this was a repost but couldn't find anything.

Obviously someone was playing I'm the daddy now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8342668.stm

Tell you what, lets build a big glass box and put fking scumbags like these two in it with a selection of weapons & let's watch them fk each other up.
I would subscribe to Sky Sports just to see that. Seriously these two are just a complete waste of oxygen and skin. They are never, ever going to be any value to society at all, they are just cluttering up the gene pool.

Magnum 44, brain stem, bang. Then when they are on the ground, double tap just to be sure. Don't worry about torture first, just kill them and toss them in a rendering bin to turn them into glue or food for pigs.

[Jasandjules]

No no no that's an absolute disgrace and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Plainly we should permit the public to shoot the scum by way of having them run from one end of a football pitch to another, and if they survive, they stay in jail. That could be televised

[bakerjuk]

And to think this little shytes mother lied for him.. She is just as bad.

I do believe in public humiliation. These scumbags always talk about "respect", lets take that away in swathes. How would they like to wear a bikini and be chained to a pedestal where people are allowed to go and verbally abuse them?

Feck "their" Human rights they lose those when they commit murder. I reckon this would really put them off.

[RDMcG]

bakerjuk said:

And to think this little shytes mother lied for him.. She is just as bad.

I do believe in public humiliation. These scumbags always talk about "respect", lets take that away in swathes. How would they like to wear a bikini and be chained to a pedestal where people are allowed to go and verbally abuse them?

Feck "their" Human rights they lose those when they commit murder. I reckon this would really put them off.

Look up Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County Arizona...he has some interesting views of prisoner treatment to say the least. These lads deserve a trip there.

[crmcatee]

In these days of internet connections - couldn't we have some sort of the Golden Shot with crossbows controlled by the first person to logon to a site when it's advertised. The Golden Scum (TM).

Balls off or through the head - the choice is yours...



eta my typo

Edited by crmcatee on Wednesday 4th November 20:57

[The Hypno-Toad]

bakerjuk said:

And to think this little shytes mother lied for him.. She is just as bad.

I'm guessing she's probably terrifed of him.

Still look on the bright side. Hopefully the one who is in hospital will find a nice sharp knife lying around, store it down his sock and go for an instant reply when he gets out. Hopefully one dead scouse fkknuckle.

Actually as long as one of them ends up lying in the exercise yard, hands up round their neck, trying desperatly to stop the blood gushing from their jugular as they suddenly realise that their lifes been for nothing, I'll be happy.

[bakerjuk]

RDMcG said:

bakerjuk said:

And to think this little shytes mother lied for him.. She is just as bad.

I do believe in public humiliation. These scumbags always talk about "respect", lets take that away in swathes. How would they like to wear a bikini and be chained to a pedestal where people are allowed to go and verbally abuse them?

Feck "their" Human rights they lose those when they commit murder. I reckon this would really put them off.

Look up Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County Arizona...he has some interesting views of prisoner treatment to say the least. These lads deserve a trip there.

Love some of it..
In Phoenix, Arpaio set up a "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail (Maricopa County Jail). Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.

During the summer of 2003, when outside temperatures exceeded 110 ‹F (43 ‹C), which is higher than average, Arpaio said to complaining inmates, "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents, have to wear full body armor, and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths." Inmates were given permission to wear only their pink underwear.

Right on !!!!

unsurprisingly ...
Tent City has been criticized by groups contending these are violations of human and constitutional rights, as well as by Erwin James, currently on parole from a life sentence in Britain, who wrote a series of articles about his experiences in British prisons for The Guardian.



I dont believe in the death penalty unless it is without ANY doubt at all, such as Fred West. But saying that, these little shysters hide behind "human rights". I really do believe that if they murder someone then they forego any claim to these Human rights as they took them from someone else. What better deterant than a proper "scary" prison....

Edited by bakerjuk on Wednesday 4th November 20:35

[Dunk76]

I suggest a more Latin American approach to Prison.

1) you have to pay to be there
2) the guards are there on the perimeter only to keep people out, rather than keep them in
3) good luck

You watch crime rates drop off a cliff then

[bakerjuk]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Actually as long as one of them ends up lying in the exercise yard, hands up round their neck, trying desperatly to stop the blood gushing from their jugular as they suddenly realise that their lifes been for nothing, I'll be happy.

+1

Edited by bakerjuk on Wednesday 4th November 20:37

[Jasandjules]

bakerjuk said:

unsurprisingly ...
Tent City has been criticized by groups contending these are violations of human and constitutional rights, as well as by Erwin James, currently on parole from a life sentence in Britain, who wrote a series of articles about his experiences in British prisons for The Guardian.

But, I don't suppose they mention the re-offending rate he gets compared to other jails......

[cbcbcb]

bakerjuk said:

I dont believe in the death penalty unless it is without ANY doubt at all, such as Fred West. But saying that, these little shysters hide behind "human rights". I really do believe that if they murder someone then they forego any claim to these Human rights as they took them from someone else. What better deterant than a proper "scary" prison....

Just out of curiosity, do you really think that those in prison for murder should lose the following human rights:
1. the right not to be subject to violence/sexual assualt
2. basic healthcare
3. clean drinking water

In my opinion, prison doesn't have to be nice, but it shouldn't be barbaric either.

[RDMcG]

Here is Joe Arpaio........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1tfIKUZ0fY

Edited by RDMcG on Wednesday 4th November 22:20

[bakerjuk]

cbcbcb said:

bakerjuk said:

I dont believe in the death penalty unless it is without ANY doubt at all, such as Fred West. But saying that, these little shysters hide behind "human rights". I really do believe that if they murder someone then they forego any claim to these Human rights as they took them from someone else. What better deterant than a proper "scary" prison....

Just out of curiosity, do you really think that those in prison for murder should lose the following human rights:
1. the right not to be subject to violence/sexual assualt
2. basic healthcare
3. clean drinking water

In my opinion, prison doesn't have to be nice, but it shouldn't be barbaric either.

Obviously I didnt elaborate in detail as Human rights cover lots of things.. But they certain should lose the right to a lot of the less basic stuff other than you list above. They should be allowed to be subjected to humiliation, verbal abuse and generally things that make their life unpleasant but not dangerous.

Edited by bakerjuk on Wednesday 4th November 21:59

[elster]

A murderer stabs a murderer.

I won't lose any sleep.

[Getragdogleg]

elster said:

A murderer stabs a murderer.

I won't lose any sleep.

Nor will I, in fact I hope it happens more often and I will sleep even more soundly.

[zcacogp]

Dunk76 said:

I suggest a more Latin American approach to Prison.

1) you have to pay to be there
2) the guards are there on the perimeter only to keep people out, rather than keep them in
3) good luck

You watch crime rates drop off a cliff then

I don't agree. What are crime rates like in Latin America? Without looking it up, I'd bet that you are FAR more likely to be stabbed or mugged in Brasilia or San Paulo than Central London.

I happen to think that we are sending too many people to prison in the UK, but for more and more minor things (see the thread about a student possibly being imprisoned for pissing on a war memorial). What would REALLY reduce crime rates in the UK is to dramatically increase the detection and conviction rates. While there is a less than 8% detection rate for the Met Police (meaning that if you commit a crime, there is a less than one-in-twelve chance that you will hear anything more about it) then we can't expect crime rates to drop at all.

Criminals aren't likely to be afraid of a punishment which they know they are very very unlikely to be subjected to.


Oli.

[FNG]

I read somewhere the other day that there are about 150,000 repeat offenders in this country, and about 80-90,000 prison places.

It occurs to me that we need twice as many prison places, and keep plenty of spaces available for those repeat offenders to go back inside just as soon as they're caught the next time.

And while I don't think the American tent camp is appropriate, something more akin to the Slade Prison of Porridge is in order at the very least.

OK, this is the modern era, so the ones who aren't terminally unrecoverable can have all the rehabilitation support that they want. But they have to go ask for it.

Lastly, if any prisoner spends any of his time watching TV or playing a fking playstation, he's not being punished.

[Dunk76]

zcacogp said:

Dunk76 said:

I suggest a more Latin American approach to Prison.

1) you have to pay to be there
2) the guards are there on the perimeter only to keep people out, rather than keep them in
3) good luck

You watch crime rates drop off a cliff then

I don't agree. What are crime rates like in Latin America? Without looking it up, I'd bet that you are FAR more likely to be stabbed or mugged in Brasilia or San Paulo than Central London.

That's as much as to do with grinding poverty and lack of law enforcement than anything else.

In a relatively organised society with a relatively efficient justice system in terms of we are able to ID people, the police are able to arrest them, and the courts system isn't corrupt, then I think the deterrent aspect would exponentially increase.

Desperation leads to desperate things - are TWOCers desperate for the cash or food? Nope, but there's little deterrent for them.

If you present them with the choice of Prison with playstations, 3 square meals, relative safety, and all the education and programs you could desire, or Prison where you have to pay for your bed and board (one way or another), no education, no playstations, and absolutely nil protection from other inmates, then even the dimmest crim is going to think it might possibly not be worth it.

The current issue, knowing a couple of people who have done time, is that for the bottom end of society, Prison is actually an improvement in the quality of life for them; they can't get into trouble with the Police, they don't have bills or food to concern themselves with, and for most low-medium level crimes you'll serve less than 12 months if you keep your nose clean.

It's not a deterrent, which sort of negates the whole point of it.

Making prison a living hell may not deter some, it may make crims spend more effort trying to evade detection, but I'd also wager it would dramatically reduce casual/occassional crime, and reoffending would fall through the floor.

[bakerjuk]

FNG said:

I read somewhere the other day that there are about 150,000 repeat offenders in this country, and about 80-90,000 prison places.

It occurs to me that we need twice as many prison places, and keep plenty of spaces available for those repeat offenders to go back inside just as soon as they're caught the next time.

And while I don't think the American tent camp is appropriate, something more akin to the Slade Prison of Porridge is in order at the very least.

OK, this is the modern era, so the ones who aren't terminally unrecoverable can have all the rehabilitation support that they want. But they have to go ask for it.

Lastly, if any prisoner spends any of his time watching TV or playing a fking playstation, he's not being punished.

Personally I think the prison system is all wrong,

Its either for

1) Punishment & Deterent (ie the tents)
2) Fixed term slap on the wrist
3) Proper rehabilitation

I dont think we pretend we do all of the above in this country, but by doing so we dont do any properly.
I personally think we should scrap sentence times. You go to prison.. You are let out once you are deemed as no longer a threat to other peoples human rights. If you get locked up for intent to sell crack and you carry on doing it in prison, then you stay there until you dont want to or cant do it anymore.
If you are locked up for ABH, if you constantly get in fights in prison then you stay there.

This would stop repeat offenders as they wouldnt get much chance to reoffend. And people like Biggs who is just an old man now is not likely to rob any trains, but if he is deemed to be a risk of doing this through others then he is detained until that risk is removed.
And obviously it would be the presiding Judge whom would make these decisions, their time would be a lot more abundant if they didnt have reoffenders to process.

[Gaspode]

bakerjuk said:

FNG said:

I read somewhere the other day that there are about 150,000 repeat offenders in this country, and about 80-90,000 prison places.

It occurs to me that we need twice as many prison places, and keep plenty of spaces available for those repeat offenders to go back inside just as soon as they're caught the next time.

Lastly, if any prisoner spends any of his time watching TV or playing a fking playstation, he's not being punished.

Personally I think the prison system is all wrong,

Its either for

1) Punishment & Deterent (ie the tents)
2) Fixed term slap on the wrist
3) Proper rehabilitation

I dont think we pretend we do all of the above in this country, but by doing so we dont do any properly.
I personally think we should scrap sentence times. You go to prison.. You are let out once you are deemed as no longer a threat to other peoples human rights. If you get locked up for intent to sell crack and you carry on doing it in prison, then you stay there until you dont want to or cant do it anymore.
If you are locked up for ABH, if you constantly get in fights in prison then you stay there.

Given that the Prison system has these 3 objectives (punishment/rehabilitation/public protection) I can't help thinking that it would be far better to actually separate the phases out, so that for any offender there would be a defined pattern, something like:

First phase - Punishment. 28 days (or more depending on the severity of the crime) solitary confinement in a concrete cell.
Second phase - rehabilitation. You can't progress to stage 3 until you have gained an O level in at least 2 subjects, and found yourself employment for when you are released.
Third phase - public protection - you must convince the jury that found you guilty that you are no longer a threat to society, and present to them a life plan that you have worked out to keep you on the straight and narrow. If they're not convinced, you stay in.

Any dicking about during your sentence means you have to start the whole thing again from day 1.