Will 260mm and 273mm disks fit in standard S1 wheels?
Discussion
Title says it all really. Looking at 260mm front and 273mm rear disks for the S1.5 i have. Just wondering if they will fit inside the S1 alloys I have? Like these:
http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/L-TV...
On another point, how much are they worth? I may have to sell them at some point, as the mods I'm going to do will, eventually, mean I need bigger fatter tyres (not for a good few years yet though).
http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/L-TV...
On another point, how much are they worth? I may have to sell them at some point, as the mods I'm going to do will, eventually, mean I need bigger fatter tyres (not for a good few years yet though).
tozerman said:
I've got 278mm front discs on my car and they do JUST fit under the standard 15"" wheels, although I had to get the weights moved and rebalanced but they were fine, best mod I have ever done, good luck
Cheers.....Tony..
My V8S had the Imola (Chimaera 4.0 style) 7x15" wheels all round - so the same nominal size as the earlier S series wheels but a different style. I could just barely get 300mm brakes in here - there were tenths of a mil in it and it took a lot of juggling clearances. 285mm left me miles of space. The internal dimensions could easily vary depending on the style of wheel, but it's hard to believe they vary by *that* much. To make sure though, I'd suggest you ask the seller how much space this proposed brake setup takes up inside the wheel so you can measure you own wheels and check. If they do actually have the brakes in front of them, or ever seen them fitted to the car, they should be able to answer this very easily. So if they can't answer, that's probably not somebody you want to be buying from ...Cheers.....Tony..
To fit rear discs would involve changing the entire hub and stub axle assembly to convert from drums to discs. Is that what you're planning? Others have done it, but it's quite a job.
GreenV8S said:
tozerman said:
I've got 278mm front discs on my car and they do JUST fit under the standard 15"" wheels, although I had to get the weights moved and rebalanced but they were fine, best mod I have ever done, good luck
Cheers.....Tony..
My V8S had the Imola (Chimaera 4.0 style) 7x15" wheels all round - so the same nominal size as the earlier S series wheels but a different style. I could just barely get 300mm brakes in here - there were tenths of a mil in it and it took a lot of juggling clearances. 285mm left me miles of space. The internal dimensions could easily vary depending on the style of wheel, but it's hard to believe they vary by *that* much. To make sure though, I'd suggest you ask the seller how much space this proposed brake setup takes up inside the wheel so you can measure you own wheels and check. If they do actually have the brakes in front of them, or ever seen them fitted to the car, they should be able to answer this very easily. So if they can't answer, that's probably not somebody you want to be buying from ...Cheers.....Tony..
To fit rear discs would involve changing the entire hub and stub axle assembly to convert from drums to discs. Is that what you're planning? Others have done it, but it's quite a job.
Cheers.....Tony..
Hi.
To put discs on the rear you don't have to change the hubs, there are plates made with caliper mounts to bolt right unto the existing hubs or you can machine an old pr of disc brake hubs to bolt up, you can then use cossi front discs on the rear (if you need vented).
I don't remember who but I have changed my rears and passed my old ones on to a guy from up north, easy job to do on the cheep.
The stub axles are not the same as the disc hubes, both 100mm flanges but the splines are not, to change hube you need the stub axles as well. They need to be 100mm to fit, to use 108mm 2WD Cossi you need drive shafts as well and a 2 WD diff. The disc brake cars use the Sieera parts with push in drive shafts( into the diff).
Alan
To put discs on the rear you don't have to change the hubs, there are plates made with caliper mounts to bolt right unto the existing hubs or you can machine an old pr of disc brake hubs to bolt up, you can then use cossi front discs on the rear (if you need vented).
I don't remember who but I have changed my rears and passed my old ones on to a guy from up north, easy job to do on the cheep.
The stub axles are not the same as the disc hubes, both 100mm flanges but the splines are not, to change hube you need the stub axles as well. They need to be 100mm to fit, to use 108mm 2WD Cossi you need drive shafts as well and a 2 WD diff. The disc brake cars use the Sieera parts with push in drive shafts( into the diff).
Alan
Edited by Alan Whitaker on Saturday 7th November 15:51
Hi Mick.
How are you going on with the restore?, I have done my brakes now, gone with 326 X 30 on the fronts and 300 X 24 on the rears, I got the Hi Spec in the end, monster4 on the front and the billet4 on the rear, Just need to sort out the rear diff but might just go with the 2WD cossi unit.
Alan
How are you going on with the restore?, I have done my brakes now, gone with 326 X 30 on the fronts and 300 X 24 on the rears, I got the Hi Spec in the end, monster4 on the front and the billet4 on the rear, Just need to sort out the rear diff but might just go with the 2WD cossi unit.
Alan
Just to clarify, Hans, the guy selling me the brakes, says they will fit. I'm sure the 273mm go on the rear and the 260mm go on the front. Here's what he said I get:
FRONT NEW 260 x 24 mm disc and NEW pads and used good calipers.
REAR NEW 273 x 20 discs and NEW pads,used bearing carriers, used
wheelflanges and stubaxle shafts and ofcousre NEW
wheelbearings and good used rear calipers to take the vented
disc.
All for £375. Doesn't sound too expensive for what I'm getting, what do you think?
FRONT NEW 260 x 24 mm disc and NEW pads and used good calipers.
REAR NEW 273 x 20 discs and NEW pads,used bearing carriers, used
wheelflanges and stubaxle shafts and ofcousre NEW
wheelbearings and good used rear calipers to take the vented
disc.
All for £375. Doesn't sound too expensive for what I'm getting, what do you think?
Hi
£375 for a full set up is about right if everything is in near or new condition, with a rear wheel drive car the breaking would be 60% on the front and 40% on the rear, you need to have the big discs on the front and the smaller on the back, if you put the smaller ones on the front you will have to put in a Adjustable Brake Bias Valve to set up your breaking bias.
Most of the aftermarket brake kits ir Hi Spec Wilwood and AP say a 300mm disc will fit on a 16" wheel but may need a spacer depending on your offset.
Alan
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20t...
£375 for a full set up is about right if everything is in near or new condition, with a rear wheel drive car the breaking would be 60% on the front and 40% on the rear, you need to have the big discs on the front and the smaller on the back, if you put the smaller ones on the front you will have to put in a Adjustable Brake Bias Valve to set up your breaking bias.
Most of the aftermarket brake kits ir Hi Spec Wilwood and AP say a 300mm disc will fit on a 16" wheel but may need a spacer depending on your offset.
Alan
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20t...
Edited by Alan Whitaker on Sunday 8th November 13:16
Alan Whitaker said:
Hi
£375 for a full set up is about right if everything is in near or new condition, with a rear wheel drive car the breaking would be 60% on the front and 40% on the rear, you need to have the big discs on the front and the smaller on the back, if you put the smaller ones on the front you will have to put in a Adjustable Brake Bias Valve to set up your breaking bias.
Most of the aftermarket brake kits ir Hi Spec Wilwood and AP say a 300mm disc will fit on a 16" wheel but may need a spacer depending on your offset.
Alan
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20t...
That's strange....why has Hans told me to put the 273mm brakes on the rear?£375 for a full set up is about right if everything is in near or new condition, with a rear wheel drive car the breaking would be 60% on the front and 40% on the rear, you need to have the big discs on the front and the smaller on the back, if you put the smaller ones on the front you will have to put in a Adjustable Brake Bias Valve to set up your breaking bias.
Most of the aftermarket brake kits ir Hi Spec Wilwood and AP say a 300mm disc will fit on a 16" wheel but may need a spacer depending on your offset.
Alan
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/START%20t...
Edited by Alan Whitaker on Sunday 8th November 13:16
Alan Whitaker said:
if you put the smaller ones on the front you will have to put in a Adjustable Brake Bias Valve to set up your breaking bias.
The static balance is determined the the calliper sizes as well as the effective diameter, so you can't tell whether there's a problem just based on the rotor size. If it needs adjusting a brake bias valve is not the right way to correct it.Hi Peter.
That is right so if he is using vented calipers on the rear lets say cosworth, scorpio, granada or after market the front calipers would have to be quite large because of the % dia differance, I think you will have a caliper to small on the front to have the pad area of a 273 ventd rear.
The old Granada had a big twin pot caliper but not many about and it might not fit on the brackets, you could try a Cosworth but again may have to put larger discs on.
Alan
That is right so if he is using vented calipers on the rear lets say cosworth, scorpio, granada or after market the front calipers would have to be quite large because of the % dia differance, I think you will have a caliper to small on the front to have the pad area of a 273 ventd rear.
The old Granada had a big twin pot caliper but not many about and it might not fit on the brackets, you could try a Cosworth but again may have to put larger discs on.
Alan
Alan Whitaker said:
Hi Peter.
That is right so if he is using vented calipers on the rear lets say cosworth, scorpio, granada or after market the front calipers would have to be quite large because of the % dia differance, I think you will have a caliper to small on the front to have the pad area of a 273 ventd rear.
The old Granada had a big twin pot caliper but not many about and it might not fit on the brackets, you could try a Cosworth but again may have to put larger discs on.
Alan
I'm way out of my depth here I don't really follow what you're syaing (you obviously know far more than me). However, I have been told Han's kits fit straight on and he knows his stuff. Also, a friend of mine, who builds and rebuilds cars for a living, said that if the front brakes are too large, this can cause the rear brakes left with nothing to do, so to get a balanced brake system, sometimes it's best to have bigger brakes on the back....I was confused but took his word for it. That is right so if he is using vented calipers on the rear lets say cosworth, scorpio, granada or after market the front calipers would have to be quite large because of the % dia differance, I think you will have a caliper to small on the front to have the pad area of a 273 ventd rear.
The old Granada had a big twin pot caliper but not many about and it might not fit on the brackets, you could try a Cosworth but again may have to put larger discs on.
Alan
TVR653X said:
a friend of mine, who builds and rebuilds cars for a living, said that if the front brakes are too large, this can cause the rear brakes left with nothing to do, so to get a balanced brake system, sometimes it's best to have bigger brakes on the back....I was confused but took his word for it.
The brakes have to be balanced in several ways.The static balance is the ratio of front/rear braking effort under light braking. This is determined by the overall mechanical/hydraulic leverage of the front/rear brakes, and must match the weight distribution of the vehicle. You can vary it by changing the mechanical/hydraulic setup eg changing the calliper/rotor size or by adjusting a balance bar at the master cylinder (if you have one).
The dynamic balance shows how the ratio of front/rear effort varies as the amount of total braking varies. This has to be set to compensate for the weight transfer that occurs under braking. It's usually controlled by a bias valve. If you have changed the braking system substantially the original bias valve might not have the right characteristics, there are plenty of adjustable bias valves available from aftermarket suppliers.
The thermal balance is a measure of how the front/rear brakes heat up under hard use. The front brakes absorb much more energy than the rears when you're braking hard, typically roughly twice as much. So you usually need physically bigger discs and better cooling at the front.
Hi All
This is a good read for anybody wanting to change your breaking.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandp...
Looked at these for a upgrade but lots of ££££££££££££££££££££££££
Alan
This is a good read for anybody wanting to change your breaking.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandp...
Looked at these for a upgrade but lots of ££££££££££££££££££££££££
Alan
Alan Whitaker said:
Hi All
This is a good read for anybody wanting to change your breaking.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandp...
Looked at these for a upgrade but lots of ££££££££££££££££££££££££
Alan
Interesting, but it didn't tell me why my brakes that I'm getting are bigger at the back than at the front? This is a good read for anybody wanting to change your breaking.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandp...
Looked at these for a upgrade but lots of ££££££££££££££££££££££££
Alan
TVR653X said:
Interesting, but it didn't tell me why my brakes that I'm getting are bigger at the back than at the front?
In practical terms, it sounds like the brakes which Hans has supplied are the same as fitted by TVR to the later Chimera & Griffith 500. Although the rears are 273mm, the caliper is probably the small Sierra style rear with much less piston & pad area compared to the front calipers. Still, it is generally found that the Griffith 500 benefits from an upgrade from 260mm to 283mm front discs (while keeping the 273mm rears), which will also usually fit inside 15" wheels.Anyway, I guess you could confirm with Hans the precise details of what he has supplied?
jwoffshore said:
TVR653X said:
Interesting, but it didn't tell me why my brakes that I'm getting are bigger at the back than at the front?
In practical terms, it sounds like the brakes which Hans has supplied are the same as fitted by TVR to the later Chimera & Griffith 500. Although the rears are 273mm, the caliper is probably the small Sierra style rear with much less piston & pad area compared to the front calipers. Still, it is generally found that the Griffith 500 benefits from an upgrade from 260mm to 283mm front discs (while keeping the 273mm rears), which will also usually fit inside 15" wheels.Anyway, I guess you could confirm with Hans the precise details of what he has supplied?
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