(C5) RS6 or B5 (RS4)??
Discussion
Hi, I cant make up my mind wether to go for the RS6 or the RS4(both last gen).
Can anyone help inspire me!?
My worries is the RS4 is just not quick enough, but then the RS6 is more expensive, and has pretty heavy fuel figures...
Is it worth the extra few grand for the 6?
Can anyone help inspire me!?
My worries is the RS4 is just not quick enough, but then the RS6 is more expensive, and has pretty heavy fuel figures...
Is it worth the extra few grand for the 6?
Edited by tomvcarter on Sunday 8th November 10:47
A few months back I sold my 2007 RS4 - a very capable ( and thirsty car ) . Had some quick cars in my time but the RS4 was quick - cant deny that - but not super crazy quick . Had a 911 turbo before the RS4 and it would have seriously blitzed the RS4 . Problem was that your average chav in his scooby would give the RS4 a very good run for its money and in some cases you just wouldnt want to know the outcome ! Being honest - while I loved the car - I found the power disappointing . Sounds crazy I know but if you expect neck snapping power the RS 4 aint going to deliver .
But it depends on what the OP wants, doesn't it? Secure all wheel drive plus blistering performance with some luggage space and no real need for rear seats (or use as a second car while something else does the load lugging) - 911 turbo definitely fits the bill. With heavy heart I decided not to buy one as it was just too much of a compromise as an only car.
Want to carry a week's shopping while the family's in the car as well, plus a pushchair, or want just one vehicle that does most of everything? You can't beat a Deutschuberestatewagen.
If you're fixated on getting an Audi estate, www.rs246.com is your friend.
Want to carry a week's shopping while the family's in the car as well, plus a pushchair, or want just one vehicle that does most of everything? You can't beat a Deutschuberestatewagen.
If you're fixated on getting an Audi estate, www.rs246.com is your friend.
tomvcarter said:
other than fuel, why are they so expensive to maintain?
Once sorted (or bought from someone who knows) they're (B5 RS4) not too expensive to maintain in comparison with other cars. Brakes are expensive though - front discs at £250 EACH!!!Cambelt every 40000 miles is about £700 + VAT done properly - but that's the same for any V6 Audi A4 - including the 2.5 diesel!
It's a 9 year old car and will have 9 year old Audi problems - odd electrical bits going wonky etc.
If the turbos throw their hand in you're looking at a big bill - but turbos rarely just give up without provoking - usually an un-noticed boost leak. Regular maintainance and checks by a specialist should keep you safe.
Happy with mine and it is quick.
RS6 is another matter though. Brakes just as costly. DRC suspension often fails. Gearboxes often fail.
Por911T said:
A few months back I sold my 2007 RS4 - a very capable ( and thirsty car ) . Had some quick cars in my time but the RS4 was quick - cant deny that - but not super crazy quick . Had a 911 turbo before the RS4 and it would have seriously blitzed the RS4 . Problem was that your average chav in his scooby would give the RS4 a very good run for its money and in some cases you just wouldnt want to know the outcome ! Being honest - while I loved the car - I found the power disappointing . Sounds crazy I know but if you expect neck snapping power the RS 4 aint going to deliver .
That's because the B7 doesn't make it's claimed power generally. No turbos either.A properly fettled b5 RS4 is ridiculously quick. They have potential for a lot of power, and due to being quite light and manual it is easy to get them to be faster than a sorted RS6. I'm not biased either, my car is a 500bhp C5 RS6, and when i see a sorted B5 in the mirror i get nervous!
Even the S4 has potential. Only 1 of my friends has a car that is faster than mine, and that is a B5 S4 tuned to nearly 500bhp (or it was until one of his turbo's went pop!)
The rs6 is alot more practical though, and certainly fast enough!
Even the S4 has potential. Only 1 of my friends has a car that is faster than mine, and that is a B5 S4 tuned to nearly 500bhp (or it was until one of his turbo's went pop!)
The rs6 is alot more practical though, and certainly fast enough!
IM currently driving an E92 M3 Coupe, and as much as i love it its having to go, as the running cost + a loan are too much to handle. Its seriously rapid, and im leaning towards the RS6 (im sure the RS4 will def not match up)
, but worried i will disapopinted in RS6 (C5) 's straight line pace in comparison to the M3?
, but worried i will disapopinted in RS6 (C5) 's straight line pace in comparison to the M3?
On paper they should be very similar straight line. The RS6 has the edge on torque, thats why it the extra 300kg doesnt make as much difference.
Should go for a test drive. Bear in mind if you think it feels a little sluggish theres allways an aftermarket map that can be put on it for under £500, no doubt and these tend to transform the turbocharged vag mobiles.
Should go for a test drive. Bear in mind if you think it feels a little sluggish theres allways an aftermarket map that can be put on it for under £500, no doubt and these tend to transform the turbocharged vag mobiles.
Before you settle on the RS6, my twopenny's worth:
I had a B5 S4 and it was quick, tremendously versatile and great fun - I still get grief from 'er indoors for selling it!!
A mate of mine has a B5 RS4 and its been tuned by QST and it is in a different league. My "other" car is a 4.5 cerb, and I have to pick my moments to avoid the slightest damp conditions if I am to out-run him from the Peage!! Any rain, and I'm not playing!!
And before you wonder, my cerb is running at 400bhp on the rollers and his RS4 is pushing 440bhp.
I know my mate is having to sell his due to the impending arrival of his first child (hence finances!!) but I'd say try one before you end up with the fuel costs of the RS6, which will be higher than the RS4.
Incidentally, I did look at an RS6 to replace the S4, but the running costs put me off (and the fact that I only get to drive it at weekends!!).
Drop me a line if you want any more info.
Cheers
Rob
I had a B5 S4 and it was quick, tremendously versatile and great fun - I still get grief from 'er indoors for selling it!!
A mate of mine has a B5 RS4 and its been tuned by QST and it is in a different league. My "other" car is a 4.5 cerb, and I have to pick my moments to avoid the slightest damp conditions if I am to out-run him from the Peage!! Any rain, and I'm not playing!!
And before you wonder, my cerb is running at 400bhp on the rollers and his RS4 is pushing 440bhp.
I know my mate is having to sell his due to the impending arrival of his first child (hence finances!!) but I'd say try one before you end up with the fuel costs of the RS6, which will be higher than the RS4.
Incidentally, I did look at an RS6 to replace the S4, but the running costs put me off (and the fact that I only get to drive it at weekends!!).
Drop me a line if you want any more info.
Cheers
Rob
I have a C5 RS6 MTM500 and ive not looked back. I cant see me ever selling it either. The B5 RS4 is also a great car with huge potential if you are willing to spend the money. They both have thier advantages: The RS6 will kill most cars in a straight line. I had a tussle with a Lambo Murcialago a little while ago and the result was good. The RS6's downfall however is cornering (unless you get one with coilovers - then its a different story) which is where you could consider the B5 RS4 as an alternative. Having seen them at work i can say that on the twisty stuff there is no point competeing against the RS4.
On the downside the B5 RS4 is older than the C5 RS6 and is showing its age, but dont let that put you off if you find a well maintained model. The 450bhp C5 RS6 engine is good for 200k+ if its well serviced (there are plenty of 100k+ milers on RS246.com still pulling over 500bhp thanks to mapping), and the auto box WILL last if it is serviced every 40k. The DRC suspension on the RS6 is brilliant when it works, but it wont work for long - FACT!!. Most owners opted for coilovers once their DRC broke which is much cheaper and far more reliable. The B5 RS4 has a very good manual box but the turbo's should be well looked after if they are to do decent mileage. Most B5 RS4 owners change thier suspension too, but i think that is more for ride hieght rather than reliability.
Repair wise, both cars will cost you dear for brakes, belt changes, suspension, drivetrain etc. Get a good warranty (preferably Audi but others are available) and you wont have to worry if your gearbox decides to have a £7k breakdown.
Fuel costs are dependant on driving style. On a motorway journey in cruise at 68mpm, with aircon off i got 32mpg from Poole to Glasgow in the 6. Thats 1 tank of fuel for 500 miles, you would struggle to do that in any big car, let alone a V8 Twin Turbo knocking out 500bhp. Around town you will be looking at 10 - 15mpg and less if you are hooning around hunting exotica. Yes its more expensive to fill up. It has an 85 litre tank and you have to feed it super unleaded, but thats part and parcel of owning a 1.9 tonne supercar. Im not sure about the fuel economy on the B5 RS4, but i'd guess at it being only marginally better when you take it easy - but you wont want to.
There are some low price RS6's on the market but be warned. If its priced below 14k then the chances are it will have poor service history and will have been thrashed. Check the alloys for signs of kerbing or buckling as that is a good sign of impact damage. Check the electrics too and if possible get a specialist to look at it before you buy. Its easy to be fooled by an RS6 if you havnt shopped around properly (i know this well, mine was only knocking out 420bhp when i got it and it was supposed to be mapped to 500bhp). You'll think its running fine and it'll still be quick, until you get into a healthy one and then it will hit you - 'why does mine feel so slow?'. The common ills of the RS6 are MAF's and N75 failing which will reduce boost, boost leaks and bad cooling. I'd be looking to spend 17k on a good saloon and £19 on a decent avant. The RS6 'Plus' is in another league again with prices ranging from £25k to £35k as they are very rare. Only 77 came to the UK.
The RS4 prices are alien to me as i dont own one but the RS246 forum will have all the answers to your questions should you need it.
On another note: Many RS4 Avant owners moved over to the RS6 Avant because there wasnt enough boot space for the kids / travel equipment etc. Its quite cramped in the back too with 3 adults side by side. The RS6 is massive!!! In every respect. With 5 big lads in my RS6 there was still room to move about and we could still hit 189mph on a runway speed test.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
On the downside the B5 RS4 is older than the C5 RS6 and is showing its age, but dont let that put you off if you find a well maintained model. The 450bhp C5 RS6 engine is good for 200k+ if its well serviced (there are plenty of 100k+ milers on RS246.com still pulling over 500bhp thanks to mapping), and the auto box WILL last if it is serviced every 40k. The DRC suspension on the RS6 is brilliant when it works, but it wont work for long - FACT!!. Most owners opted for coilovers once their DRC broke which is much cheaper and far more reliable. The B5 RS4 has a very good manual box but the turbo's should be well looked after if they are to do decent mileage. Most B5 RS4 owners change thier suspension too, but i think that is more for ride hieght rather than reliability.
Repair wise, both cars will cost you dear for brakes, belt changes, suspension, drivetrain etc. Get a good warranty (preferably Audi but others are available) and you wont have to worry if your gearbox decides to have a £7k breakdown.
Fuel costs are dependant on driving style. On a motorway journey in cruise at 68mpm, with aircon off i got 32mpg from Poole to Glasgow in the 6. Thats 1 tank of fuel for 500 miles, you would struggle to do that in any big car, let alone a V8 Twin Turbo knocking out 500bhp. Around town you will be looking at 10 - 15mpg and less if you are hooning around hunting exotica. Yes its more expensive to fill up. It has an 85 litre tank and you have to feed it super unleaded, but thats part and parcel of owning a 1.9 tonne supercar. Im not sure about the fuel economy on the B5 RS4, but i'd guess at it being only marginally better when you take it easy - but you wont want to.
There are some low price RS6's on the market but be warned. If its priced below 14k then the chances are it will have poor service history and will have been thrashed. Check the alloys for signs of kerbing or buckling as that is a good sign of impact damage. Check the electrics too and if possible get a specialist to look at it before you buy. Its easy to be fooled by an RS6 if you havnt shopped around properly (i know this well, mine was only knocking out 420bhp when i got it and it was supposed to be mapped to 500bhp). You'll think its running fine and it'll still be quick, until you get into a healthy one and then it will hit you - 'why does mine feel so slow?'. The common ills of the RS6 are MAF's and N75 failing which will reduce boost, boost leaks and bad cooling. I'd be looking to spend 17k on a good saloon and £19 on a decent avant. The RS6 'Plus' is in another league again with prices ranging from £25k to £35k as they are very rare. Only 77 came to the UK.
The RS4 prices are alien to me as i dont own one but the RS246 forum will have all the answers to your questions should you need it.
On another note: Many RS4 Avant owners moved over to the RS6 Avant because there wasnt enough boot space for the kids / travel equipment etc. Its quite cramped in the back too with 3 adults side by side. The RS6 is massive!!! In every respect. With 5 big lads in my RS6 there was still room to move about and we could still hit 189mph on a runway speed test.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
tomvcarter said:
awsome!
RS6 it is!
Congratulations!RS6 it is!
That was my choice too, just for rear leg room.
Unfortunately a new conservatory has come between me and my new RS6, leaving me with not quite enough in the kitty to pick up a nice one. I could have bought one for about £13-14k, but have decided to wait until I have enough for a good one than risk the costs associated with a lemon.
Between now and then though I still need the boot space, so I've ditched the B7 estate I had and couldn't get the family in and picked up an old 2.7 bi-turbo A6. Should do me until I can afford a nice RS6, and if I get it in the same colour, maybe the wife won't notice!
Okay, I'm totally biased, I'm Robscims mate with the B5 RS4 for sale. In terms of fuel economy , the B5 must be unparalleled, my wife uses mine for her commute and averages 24mpg on a 50 mile round trip across town and country. As for “not quick enough”, QST quote 0-60mph in 4.1s, 100mph in 10 & 186mph for the B5 remapped to 420bhp, they’re not kidding. Although the big gain isn’t the power hike, it’s the torque; from 440Nm to 550ish, 25%.
New gearbox on the B5 should (only) set you back about £5k. The C5 certainly has the edge in terms of load carrying capacity and range whereas the B5 has it in terms of handling & running costs. In standard tune both cars have almost identical bhp/tonne. B5 will be older and hence cheaper.
I’d reiterate ecain63’s comments; make sure you get a car that’s been maintained by specialists who knows Audi S/RS’s e.g QST, MRC & AMD, Personally I wouldn’t bother with Audi dealers as they see a B5/C5 once in a blue moon. Under previous ownership my B5 had a slight boost leak that the dealer had never spotted, QST picked it up straight away.
Okay, so the B5 couldn’t (quite) do the remapped 4.5l Cerb on a dry straight drag strip (whilst carrying a 100kg gazebo, 9 berth tent & a boot full of camping gear) but the E46 M3 didn’t get a look in despite a decent head start ;o)
New gearbox on the B5 should (only) set you back about £5k. The C5 certainly has the edge in terms of load carrying capacity and range whereas the B5 has it in terms of handling & running costs. In standard tune both cars have almost identical bhp/tonne. B5 will be older and hence cheaper.
I’d reiterate ecain63’s comments; make sure you get a car that’s been maintained by specialists who knows Audi S/RS’s e.g QST, MRC & AMD, Personally I wouldn’t bother with Audi dealers as they see a B5/C5 once in a blue moon. Under previous ownership my B5 had a slight boost leak that the dealer had never spotted, QST picked it up straight away.
Okay, so the B5 couldn’t (quite) do the remapped 4.5l Cerb on a dry straight drag strip (whilst carrying a 100kg gazebo, 9 berth tent & a boot full of camping gear) but the E46 M3 didn’t get a look in despite a decent head start ;o)
Having had a 530BHP RS4 and having driven against a remapped RS6 there isn't much in it in a straight line. The B5 RS4 would destroy a C5 RS6 on track however...
B5 issues are sensors (EGT & Lamda), Turbos & Cams are quite common now (all very expensive). Gearboxes are fragile in big horsepower cars.
C5 issues are Gearboxes & DRC failures.
If both cars where standard and your not tracking it then go for the RS6, if you want to tune the car and track it go for the B5 RS4. Which ever way you go the bills will be big, very big. I worked out I was spending almost a £1000 a month over a 12 month period to keep my RS4 on the road excluding fuel & insurance.
Ask the question over on Audisrs.com for a more in depth reply
B5 issues are sensors (EGT & Lamda), Turbos & Cams are quite common now (all very expensive). Gearboxes are fragile in big horsepower cars.
C5 issues are Gearboxes & DRC failures.
If both cars where standard and your not tracking it then go for the RS6, if you want to tune the car and track it go for the B5 RS4. Which ever way you go the bills will be big, very big. I worked out I was spending almost a £1000 a month over a 12 month period to keep my RS4 on the road excluding fuel & insurance.
Ask the question over on Audisrs.com for a more in depth reply
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