Shelf spacing (golden mean)?
Discussion
Chaps,
A slightly unusual take on a common problem here.
I'm putting up some shelves in zcacogp towers. Nice shelves they are too - five of them, in an alcove beside a chimney breast.
The question is how to space them? Do I space them equally (same distance between each one of them), or do I do something else?
The pragmatic answer would be that they should be spaced to cater for whatever we want to put on them. But, at the moment, we don't have any firm plans for anything to put there; when the shelves are up, we will find things to go on them.
I am wondering whether there is any formula which dictates the ideal (most aesthetically pleasing) distance between shelves. Something akin to the Golden Mean, which gives aesthetically pleasant rectangles and spirals. Does the same apply to shelves? If so, assuming that the square root of two is the relevant ratio, is it correct that the distance between the shelves should increase in the ratio of root two between each successive pair, going down (such that they are closer at the top and further apart at the bottom)?
If I apply this to the problem, I find that the bottom shelves are a LONG way apart, and the top ones quite close. So is there another ratio, other than root two, which is more commonly used, or some other rule to follow?
All help welcomed, thanks .... (I hope this made sense!)
Oli.
A slightly unusual take on a common problem here.
I'm putting up some shelves in zcacogp towers. Nice shelves they are too - five of them, in an alcove beside a chimney breast.
The question is how to space them? Do I space them equally (same distance between each one of them), or do I do something else?
The pragmatic answer would be that they should be spaced to cater for whatever we want to put on them. But, at the moment, we don't have any firm plans for anything to put there; when the shelves are up, we will find things to go on them.
I am wondering whether there is any formula which dictates the ideal (most aesthetically pleasing) distance between shelves. Something akin to the Golden Mean, which gives aesthetically pleasant rectangles and spirals. Does the same apply to shelves? If so, assuming that the square root of two is the relevant ratio, is it correct that the distance between the shelves should increase in the ratio of root two between each successive pair, going down (such that they are closer at the top and further apart at the bottom)?
If I apply this to the problem, I find that the bottom shelves are a LONG way apart, and the top ones quite close. So is there another ratio, other than root two, which is more commonly used, or some other rule to follow?
All help welcomed, thanks .... (I hope this made sense!)
Oli.
Simpo2 - maybe I am over-intellectualising this, but if there are ways to make things aesthetically pleasing then I'll use them to my advantage if I can!
I thought the Golden Mean was the square root of 2, so 1.41 or thereabouts. But yes, I am following the system P924 outlines, which gives some shelves getting quite a lot further apart, quite quickly. (Shelves 3 and 4 are twice as far apart from each other as shelves 1 and 2).
Oli.
ETA - FT - you're right, it is 1.61, apparently. See here.
I thought the Golden Mean was the square root of 2, so 1.41 or thereabouts. But yes, I am following the system P924 outlines, which gives some shelves getting quite a lot further apart, quite quickly. (Shelves 3 and 4 are twice as far apart from each other as shelves 1 and 2).
Oli.
ETA - FT - you're right, it is 1.61, apparently. See here.
Edited by zcacogp on Thursday 12th November 09:33
zcacogp said:
Simpo2 - maybe I am over-intellectualising this, but if there are ways to make things aesthetically pleasing then I'll use them to my advantage if I can!
Totally agree - but sometimes it's quicker to use one's eye rather than derive a mathematical formula!Of course many if not most bookshelves have a task to perform, and in this case function can affect form - for example if you need to accommodate a set of Encyclopaedia Britannica, or 500 paperbacks, then it is wise to design it accordingly. In your case it seems to be decorative first, and functional second, hence the effort on spacing - which is entirely fair too.
You also have to consider shelf depth - generally shelves get less deep with height and narrower spacing.
Parthenon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon#Design_and_...
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 12th November 09:47
Simpo2,
Thanks. Yes, I agree about the shelf depth issue, but in this case I am putting them into an alcove by a chimney breast, so the depth of the shelves is fixed, and constant.
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
Having spent some time on google, it seems that the golden mean isn't generally used to determine shelf spacing. It is used to determine shelf dimensions, and furniture dimensions, but I have yet to come across anyone using it to determine shelf spacing. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree after all.
Oli.
Thanks. Yes, I agree about the shelf depth issue, but in this case I am putting them into an alcove by a chimney breast, so the depth of the shelves is fixed, and constant.
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
Having spent some time on google, it seems that the golden mean isn't generally used to determine shelf spacing. It is used to determine shelf dimensions, and furniture dimensions, but I have yet to come across anyone using it to determine shelf spacing. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree after all.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
in this case I am putting them into an alcove by a chimney breast, so the depth of the shelves is fixed, and constant.
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
OK, well in that case I think that if all the shelves are the same depth and in an alcove, then equal spacing might be best. I think it would look odd if the spacing decreased with the other parameters fixed. However it's your house! I find that when I can't make a decision about such things, I leave them until it suddenly becomes obvious. If it doesn't become obvious after a few weeks, then it probably wasn't the best idea anyway Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
zcacogp said:
Simpo2,
Thanks. Yes, I agree about the shelf depth issue, but in this case I am putting them into an alcove by a chimney breast, so the depth of the shelves is fixed, and constant.
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
Having spent some time on google, it seems that the golden mean isn't generally used to determine shelf spacing. It is used to determine shelf dimensions, and furniture dimensions, but I have yet to come across anyone using it to determine shelf spacing. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree after all.
Oli.
Thanks FT.Thanks. Yes, I agree about the shelf depth issue, but in this case I am putting them into an alcove by a chimney breast, so the depth of the shelves is fixed, and constant.
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
Having spent some time on google, it seems that the golden mean isn't generally used to determine shelf spacing. It is used to determine shelf dimensions, and furniture dimensions, but I have yet to come across anyone using it to determine shelf spacing. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree after all.
Oli.
I've seen it (roughly) used for draw spacing.
We had two sets of shelves built in either side of a chimney breast.
The lowest shelf was a reasonable height off the floor to allow for hifi stacks, file boxes, the stove ash box and other large things.
The next two were a decent height apart to allow for large format books.
The rest were a 'paperback and a bit' apart to allow for normal books and ornaments.
It looks natural and works well...... but here's the killer.
We had adjustable shelving brackets inlaid into the wood frame, so they could be moved up and down whenever we wanted.
Problem solved.
The lowest shelf was a reasonable height off the floor to allow for hifi stacks, file boxes, the stove ash box and other large things.
The next two were a decent height apart to allow for large format books.
The rest were a 'paperback and a bit' apart to allow for normal books and ornaments.
It looks natural and works well...... but here's the killer.
We had adjustable shelving brackets inlaid into the wood frame, so they could be moved up and down whenever we wanted.
Problem solved.
Simpo Two said:
Of course many if not most bookshelves have a task to perform, and in this case function can affect form - for example if you need to accommodate a set of Encyclopaedia Britannica, or 500 paperbacks, then it is wise to design it accordingly.
I built a set of shelves for our study which was designed to take paperbacks and files. Unfortunately I failed to account for the fact that A4 files are larger than A4 paper
zcacogp said:
Some shelves will have books on, some with have a HiFi on, some will have CD's on. They are quite large, and will be used for a number of different things (the 5 shelves will reach from floor to ceiling). Hence the spacing is largely up for grabs, which is why I am looking at how to make it as pleasing as possible.
I think the form over function element will to some extent define aesthetics. Some rules would be:- Go equally spaced if you want.
- Otherwise, to make better use of the space, graduate them upwards: taller spacing at the bottom. So perhaps tall, tall, medium, short, short.
- The exception will be is the top shelf is above head height (so CDs won the top shelf will be out of sight). In which case go tall, tall (or medium), small, small, medium.
- Set some key spacing based on what will actually go on the shelves. So on the tall shelf, make sure the hifi fits easily (turntable lid lifts), make sure big books fit (as mentioned, A4 paper vs A4 folders).
- If you are going to waste a lot of space (e.g. you could fit two rows of CDs on one shelf), how about putting a half-shelf/box on the actual shelf: Lower row of CDs sit forward and hide the box, upper row sit on the box and set back.
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