£47m Bonus pot for civil servants!?!?
Discussion
smifffymoto said:
I think the big question is, why are public employees getting a bonus for doing their job.
For the reason every bonus is paid, by completing your task ahead of schedule or to a higher degree than agreed?Less than a grand for a bonus doesn't strike me as huge. Doubt it is a voting bribe either, more like it has been leaked to cause maximum damage to the war/gov.
The real issue would be for me what are the top bonuses and who is getting them and for what?
Halb said:
smifffymoto said:
I think the big question is, why are public employees getting a bonus for doing their job.
For the reason every bonus is paid, by completing your task ahead of schedule or to a higher degree than agreed?Less than a grand for a bonus doesn't strike me as huge. Doubt it is a voting bribe either, more like it has been leaked to cause maximum damage to the war/gov.
The real issue would be for me what are the top bonuses and who is getting them and for what?
smifffymoto said:
I think the big question is, why are public employees getting a bonus for doing their job.
Because bonuses don't cut towards pensions: said:
Pumpkinjuice
12 Nov 2009, 5:00AM
I'm a civil servant.
This is how civil service "bonuses" work:
Until a few years ago, any pay rise was dependent on performance. The better you did, the higher your pay would rise.
Then some bright civil servant realised that loads of money could be saved by turning the performance related payrises into non consolidated bonuses, meaning that they would not count towards pensions, meaning that the tax payer has less of a pension burden over many years to come.
So now, unless you are not up to scratch (in which case you get no payrise) we all get the same basic payrise, which for most civil servants increases their salary by just a three figure sum each year.
The bonuses are just a replacement for performance related payrises and they meant to motivate staff.
Despite some people's opinion a great many of us do take pride in doing our jobs well. But you can imagine how motivated we would feel when we've busted a gut to acheive and there was no recogition of this, simply the same basic pay rise as the plodder sitting next to you, who does his job to the letter but no more.
It's not the same culture as in banks etc where I believe that large performance related salary rises are the norm for achievers as well as bonuses.
12 Nov 2009, 5:00AM
I'm a civil servant.
This is how civil service "bonuses" work:
Until a few years ago, any pay rise was dependent on performance. The better you did, the higher your pay would rise.
Then some bright civil servant realised that loads of money could be saved by turning the performance related payrises into non consolidated bonuses, meaning that they would not count towards pensions, meaning that the tax payer has less of a pension burden over many years to come.
So now, unless you are not up to scratch (in which case you get no payrise) we all get the same basic payrise, which for most civil servants increases their salary by just a three figure sum each year.
The bonuses are just a replacement for performance related payrises and they meant to motivate staff.
Despite some people's opinion a great many of us do take pride in doing our jobs well. But you can imagine how motivated we would feel when we've busted a gut to acheive and there was no recogition of this, simply the same basic pay rise as the plodder sitting next to you, who does his job to the letter but no more.
It's not the same culture as in banks etc where I believe that large performance related salary rises are the norm for achievers as well as bonuses.
Edited by ninja-lewis on Thursday 12th November 10:10
It really IS the national past-time to whinge about and not be happy with your lot, isn't it?!?
Civil Servants represent most of the few remaining people in this country still entitled to a final-salary pension scheme (which believe me, if you do the sums, is a VERY big deal!). Moreover, in the public-sector it's NON-CONTRIBUTORY, i.e. you don't have to put any of your salary into it.
So all these C-S's who whinge about not getting big bonuses or pay-rises like bankers (well here's a clue - I've not had a bonus for 5 years, nor any above-inflationary pay-rise (none at all this year) except when moving job. But I'm happy - I've still got a job, and a good one!. Bankers are an exceptional case who everyone loves to use to say "woe is me, look at these rich Joes!") completely forget the extra 20-30% (yep, that's probably a fair estimate) of their salary which the government incurs to pay for their pension*.
Oh, and then there's the (MINIMUM!) 6-weeks-plus-B-Hols holiday they get. The overtime/TOIL if they're asked to work outside their core hours. The complete lack of any way to fire someone underperforming. The lack of any job-losses in the last 2 years, unlike most of the rest of society...fear for your job is a big deal, and this bunch DON'T have it.
So I really wish they'd stop whinging. If life is SO bad for them, why don't they go and get a job as a banker, or doing something else? It's a free country (well, sort-of), there's still mobility of labour (well, sort-of).
Some people DO have cause to bemoan their lot. Our fellow PH'er Emsman, for one, could be forgiven for feeling like life's the pigeon and he's the statue at the moment. A lot of the people I saw in Africa last month, if they but realised what life in the UK offered, might feel rather dischuffed at being born elsewhere. But quite honestly, for probably 90% of this country...
SHUT THE f
k UP YOU MISERABLE bdS!!!
* Or rather, which the government pays-out to retired CS's and leaves future gov't's/taxpayers to find the cash to pay for this bunch's pensions...
Civil Servants represent most of the few remaining people in this country still entitled to a final-salary pension scheme (which believe me, if you do the sums, is a VERY big deal!). Moreover, in the public-sector it's NON-CONTRIBUTORY, i.e. you don't have to put any of your salary into it.
So all these C-S's who whinge about not getting big bonuses or pay-rises like bankers (well here's a clue - I've not had a bonus for 5 years, nor any above-inflationary pay-rise (none at all this year) except when moving job. But I'm happy - I've still got a job, and a good one!. Bankers are an exceptional case who everyone loves to use to say "woe is me, look at these rich Joes!") completely forget the extra 20-30% (yep, that's probably a fair estimate) of their salary which the government incurs to pay for their pension*.
Oh, and then there's the (MINIMUM!) 6-weeks-plus-B-Hols holiday they get. The overtime/TOIL if they're asked to work outside their core hours. The complete lack of any way to fire someone underperforming. The lack of any job-losses in the last 2 years, unlike most of the rest of society...fear for your job is a big deal, and this bunch DON'T have it.
So I really wish they'd stop whinging. If life is SO bad for them, why don't they go and get a job as a banker, or doing something else? It's a free country (well, sort-of), there's still mobility of labour (well, sort-of).
Some people DO have cause to bemoan their lot. Our fellow PH'er Emsman, for one, could be forgiven for feeling like life's the pigeon and he's the statue at the moment. A lot of the people I saw in Africa last month, if they but realised what life in the UK offered, might feel rather dischuffed at being born elsewhere. But quite honestly, for probably 90% of this country...
SHUT THE f
k UP YOU MISERABLE bdS!!!* Or rather, which the government pays-out to retired CS's and leaves future gov't's/taxpayers to find the cash to pay for this bunch's pensions...
This is a non-event to divert attention away from real issues.
For a start, most of the "Civil Servants" will be Technologists, Engineers and Scientists, not clerks Their pay scale would include an element that is paid as a performance related bonus, it's already in the pay scales, you just have to earn it.
If the country wants its servicemen to have kit that is fit for service, it had better be prepared to pay for the expertise to manage the projects. Since the mid '90s, Mod has ceased to be an intelligent customer, a result of its drive to reduce numbers of technical staff, the insistence on contractors managing projects and an influx of inexperienced newcomers, many on short term contracts.
For a start, most of the "Civil Servants" will be Technologists, Engineers and Scientists, not clerks Their pay scale would include an element that is paid as a performance related bonus, it's already in the pay scales, you just have to earn it.
If the country wants its servicemen to have kit that is fit for service, it had better be prepared to pay for the expertise to manage the projects. Since the mid '90s, Mod has ceased to be an intelligent customer, a result of its drive to reduce numbers of technical staff, the insistence on contractors managing projects and an influx of inexperienced newcomers, many on short term contracts.
Yes but compare this to the Normal non-civilservant job, ive scored high year on year in my reviews and ive had neither a pay rise (above the 3% cost of living increases) nor a bonus in the last 3 years. This year im not getting a cost of living increase (so in effect im getting a pay cut).
Im not gonna work any less or put in less effort. If your motivated purely by money then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
Im not gonna work any less or put in less effort. If your motivated purely by money then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
Odie said:
Yes but compare this to the Normal non-civilservant job, ive scored high year on year in my reviews and ive had neither a pay rise (above the 3% cost of living increases) nor a bonus in the last 3 years. This year im not getting a cost of living increase (so in effect im getting a pay cut).
Im not gonna work any less or put in less effort. If your motivated purely by money then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
Same applies though - if you're not happy in your job and think you'd be better elsewhere then move! So if private sector employees think life is easy in the public sector, why haven't they moved to one of the myriad of public sector jobs? And if public sector employees think the private sector is a better place to work, why haven't they moved?Im not gonna work any less or put in less effort. If your motivated purely by money then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
The grass is always greener and everyone else always has a better deal than you do.
Saddle bum said:
This is a non-event to divert attention away from real issues.
For a start, most of the "Civil Servants" will be Technologists, Engineers and Scientists, not clerks Their pay scale would include an element that is paid as a performance related bonus, it's already in the pay scales, you just have to earn it.
I think that has hit the nail on the head.For a start, most of the "Civil Servants" will be Technologists, Engineers and Scientists, not clerks Their pay scale would include an element that is paid as a performance related bonus, it's already in the pay scales, you just have to earn it.
havoc said:
It really IS the national past-time to whinge about and not be happy with your lot, isn't it?!?
Civil Servants represent most of the few remaining people in this country still entitled to a final-salary pension scheme (which believe me, if you do the sums, is a VERY big deal!). Moreover, in the public-sector it's NON-CONTRIBUTORY, i.e. you don't have to put any of your salary into it.
So all these C-S's who whinge about not getting big bonuses or pay-rises like bankers (well here's a clue - I've not had a bonus for 5 years, nor any above-inflationary pay-rise (none at all this year) except when moving job. But I'm happy - I've still got a job, and a good one!. Bankers are an exceptional case who everyone loves to use to say "woe is me, look at these rich Joes!") completely forget the extra 20-30% (yep, that's probably a fair estimate) of their salary which the government incurs to pay for their pension*.
Oh, and then there's the (MINIMUM!) 6-weeks-plus-B-Hols holiday they get. The overtime/TOIL if they're asked to work outside their core hours. The complete lack of any way to fire someone underperforming. The lack of any job-losses in the last 2 years, unlike most of the rest of society...fear for your job is a big deal, and this bunch DON'T have it.
So I really wish they'd stop whinging. If life is SO bad for them, why don't they go and get a job as a banker, or doing something else? It's a free country (well, sort-of), there's still mobility of labour (well, sort-of).
Some people DO have cause to bemoan their lot. Our fellow PH'er Emsman, for one, could be forgiven for feeling like life's the pigeon and he's the statue at the moment. A lot of the people I saw in Africa last month, if they but realised what life in the UK offered, might feel rather dischuffed at being born elsewhere. But quite honestly, for probably 90% of this country...
SHUT THE fk UP YOU MISERABLE bdS!!!
* Or rather, which the government pays-out to retired CS's and leaves future gov't's/taxpayers to find the cash to pay for this bunch's pensions...
GET BACK TO WORK Civil Servants represent most of the few remaining people in this country still entitled to a final-salary pension scheme (which believe me, if you do the sums, is a VERY big deal!). Moreover, in the public-sector it's NON-CONTRIBUTORY, i.e. you don't have to put any of your salary into it.
So all these C-S's who whinge about not getting big bonuses or pay-rises like bankers (well here's a clue - I've not had a bonus for 5 years, nor any above-inflationary pay-rise (none at all this year) except when moving job. But I'm happy - I've still got a job, and a good one!. Bankers are an exceptional case who everyone loves to use to say "woe is me, look at these rich Joes!") completely forget the extra 20-30% (yep, that's probably a fair estimate) of their salary which the government incurs to pay for their pension*.
Oh, and then there's the (MINIMUM!) 6-weeks-plus-B-Hols holiday they get. The overtime/TOIL if they're asked to work outside their core hours. The complete lack of any way to fire someone underperforming. The lack of any job-losses in the last 2 years, unlike most of the rest of society...fear for your job is a big deal, and this bunch DON'T have it.
So I really wish they'd stop whinging. If life is SO bad for them, why don't they go and get a job as a banker, or doing something else? It's a free country (well, sort-of), there's still mobility of labour (well, sort-of).
Some people DO have cause to bemoan their lot. Our fellow PH'er Emsman, for one, could be forgiven for feeling like life's the pigeon and he's the statue at the moment. A lot of the people I saw in Africa last month, if they but realised what life in the UK offered, might feel rather dischuffed at being born elsewhere. But quite honestly, for probably 90% of this country...
SHUT THE f
k UP YOU MISERABLE bdS!!!* Or rather, which the government pays-out to retired CS's and leaves future gov't's/taxpayers to find the cash to pay for this bunch's pensions...
So I and the other 5000 people that work for our company don't even get a cost of living pay rise this year (nobody moaned because we understand the current situation), and those government employees get a bonus while our boys are fighting with string and sticky back plastic. Someone talk me through this.
fido said:
My gripe isn't with there bonus, but the fact their are so many of them sitting behind desks instead of in the field!
How many of them do you think sit behind desks?Edited by fido on Thursday 12th November 11:34
The 85,000 civil servant/1 for every 2 servicemen figure the papers like quoting includes groups such as the Royal Fleet Auxillary, the Met Office, scientists, storemen, dockworkers, cleaners, admin staff who sought out pensions, security staff etc. The actual proportion who sit behind desks is no more than a couple of thousand. More than a few MOD CS also serve in the Territorial Army too.
FFS are we as a population this easily lead? if so the next election is a walkover for anyone who can smear the other side and bring kittens and puppys themselves. So what civil servants are getting a bonus, it is almost certainly a contractual thing that will have trigger points to earn it, how would you feel if your boss said thanks for the hard work but the great unwashed have decided that the bonus we all agreed was available if these targets where met has been cancelled. Most people would be looking to get out as soon as they had somewhere to go.
Engineer1 said:
FFS are we as a population this easily lead? if so the next election is a walkover for anyone who can smear the other side and bring kittens and puppys themselves. So what civil servants are getting a bonus, it is almost certainly a contractual thing that will have trigger points to earn it, how would you feel if your boss said thanks for the hard work but the great unwashed have decided that the bonus we all agreed was available if these targets where met has been cancelled. Most people would be looking to get out as soon as they had somewhere to go.
Guess that's what happened to the bankers.And the great unwashed now leap on the word "bonus" like a terrier on a rat.
They'll get bored of it, and the papers will get fed up of feeding them it.
I wonder, what's the next easy focus of hate to stir up the righteous indignation of the populace?
Whatever it is, you can be sure the Sun will be at the forefront.
Engineer1 said:
FFS are we as a population this easily lead? if so the next election is a walkover for anyone who can smear the other side and bring kittens and puppys themselves. So what civil servants are getting a bonus, it is almost certainly a contractual thing that will have trigger points to earn it, how would you feel if your boss said thanks for the hard work but the great unwashed have decided that the bonus we all agreed was available if these targets where met has been cancelled. Most people would be looking to get out as soon as they had somewhere to go.
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