Discussion
Does anyone here have any experience with getting into the generic and bespoke OBD remapping sector? Are there any firms better than other? any to avoid? Im not interested in the plethora franchises out there working from their bedrooms who remap at your home, I'm wanting to know about the main firms behind all this .. If I wanted to start flash/obd remapping diesels and other petrol cars which are supported whats the best company to approach both for their generic flash remaps and bespoke remapping? Google is being rubbish .. if you believe everything on there you'd think every company was the best on the planet lol.
The problem here is. That many of the people doing this, have no clue about tuning whatsoever, and just flash generic files to every car. Although that sounds pretty much like what you are after too.
But with so many people at it...to get involved with a proper company, with proper support etc...its going to be very difficult to match the prices the others do it for.
Contact Stu at Motorsport Developments though.
But with so many people at it...to get involved with a proper company, with proper support etc...its going to be very difficult to match the prices the others do it for.
Contact Stu at Motorsport Developments though.
Hi Jules,
Have been away from PH for a few weeks and have just caught up with recent events, I have emailed you but am not sure if you still have the joo.tvr email address.
I agree to a degree with Stevie, there are hundreds of companies who offer remapping but there is a clear divide between the "actual" people who create and write maps from scratch and those who buy in their maps and then generically flash ECU's. The latter in some instances then use these bought in maps to "tweak" to create their own versions, doing this they can offer varients of the same map but with different outputs. Some companies do this well and use this as a learning curve with which to develop and grow their own skills and what they can offer as a business. But some of the "Tuners" who tweak bought in maps don't always do this properly and tweak only certain parameters which can often lead to problems either with the map and driveability of the car or which componant failure.
The map writers make their money by selling to the ECU flahsers, and the ECU flashers make their money from Joe Public on the rapidly growing in market share diesel cars.
Specialist cars appear to be the only ones where bespoke maps are required and unfortuately this means limited opportunities in the long term due to lack of available cars to tune.......you've been there...
Jules.
Have been away from PH for a few weeks and have just caught up with recent events, I have emailed you but am not sure if you still have the joo.tvr email address.
I agree to a degree with Stevie, there are hundreds of companies who offer remapping but there is a clear divide between the "actual" people who create and write maps from scratch and those who buy in their maps and then generically flash ECU's. The latter in some instances then use these bought in maps to "tweak" to create their own versions, doing this they can offer varients of the same map but with different outputs. Some companies do this well and use this as a learning curve with which to develop and grow their own skills and what they can offer as a business. But some of the "Tuners" who tweak bought in maps don't always do this properly and tweak only certain parameters which can often lead to problems either with the map and driveability of the car or which componant failure.
The map writers make their money by selling to the ECU flahsers, and the ECU flashers make their money from Joe Public on the rapidly growing in market share diesel cars.
Specialist cars appear to be the only ones where bespoke maps are required and unfortuately this means limited opportunities in the long term due to lack of available cars to tune.......you've been there...
Jules.
Setting up a tuning company can be done on many levels. It can be carried out either mobile or based at a set location, with a set location being prefered due to the nature of some of the electronic work.
For a basic mobile service-
The most important is a flasher, a communication device which can read, erase and reprogram the main memory in an ECU.
eg
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/hardware-byt...
the Byteshooter Basic (plus other models)
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/hardware-opt...
Optican Dual 2
These are available in 3 types in most cases.
Basic / Slave - it will encode files and only accept files written by a master unit of the same brand.
These are lower cost, and are designed for franchises where a dealer does not need to use the file themselves (these are sent to the master for modification)
Semi-master.
These will program both encrypted files from a Master unit, and uncoded files, and they will read files in an uncoded format which allows the operator to modify the files him or herself. What they will not do is encrypt files for a slave.
Master - the most expensive, and designed for the tuner/ modifier producing the files. These can read and write both encrypted and open files, but also encrypt them for security when being sent to franchises (This is to stop franchises repeated using files, rather than paying on a per car basis)
The flasher will cover many vehicles from 96 onwards, but not all. Other flasher are available with more specialised functionality, usually at a lower cost, but often at a reduced coverage.
Updates are often chargeable, at approx 1000 euro per year
The next major tool is a BDM interface (Background Debugging Module)
A BDM interface is a reprogramming device that uses a collection of pads/BDM port on a printed circuit board which is used to communicate directly with the processor, main memory, and a smaller eeprom that contains coding data such as Immobiliser data, fault codes and country variations.
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/evc-bdm100-p...
The EVC BDM will also requre a positioning frame, and test heads for the ECU types, for example Bosch, Siemens, Marelli etc.
This is due to variations in port placement and design.
Updates are usually free.
BDM will cover more newer vehicles as it is a replication on the in-factory programming, but it does require ECU removal and disasembly.
Flashing or OBD tuning is done from inside the car using the OBD diagnostic communication port.
OBD flashing is prefered due to ease of use, but this does require manufacturers internal security measures to be discovered before communication can be made.
BDM tuning can repair ecus damaged by errors in OBD flashing, and change more coding data, but takes more time and skill.
The last main part is offboard Chip equipment. This consists of-
Soldering equipment-
http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=pr...
A rework station will be needed to remove and replace SMD (suraface mount) microchip memories. This will include a temperature controlled soldering iron, and hot air soldering iron from the removal and replacement of larger chips.
An eprom programmer
http://www.generaldevice.com/products/labtool48uxp...
This will read and program removed chips when the original chip is damaged, removable chips are being used, or other methods are inneffective.
With an eeprom programmer, a number of adaptors for different chip styles will be needed, with approx 4 main types being a must and others bought if needed. Approx cost of each adaptor is 70-90 GBP. Updates are usually free.
Other equipment needed -
Laptop for programming using the Flasher, BDM OR Eprommer.
http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/Panasonic-Toughbook_CF...
The laptops will be required to have USB and internet conectivity, serial ports are highly desirable, and their rugged nature will allow them to be used outside in varying weather conditions around vehicles where non-ruggedised may be damaged.
Stabilised Power supply
http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/RPP/RPP01.htm
Stabilised High amp power supplies are required during Flashing to avoid power fluctuations that may corrupt the new data. Many ECU's require >13v when being programmed and external stable power it needed during this phase, which may take 2 hours.
Consumables -
Soldering equipment such as solder and iron tips will be needed.
Memory chips - Spare and replacement chips will be needed, of approx 10-15 different basic types, and costs between 2 and 10 GBP each
Tuning files - If operating as a franchised dealer, modified files cost between 100-200 gbp each, written by a "Master" or unencrypted "open" files may cost between 500-4000gbp each.
Open files may be reused as many times as needed.
If you are able to modify the files yourself, you will need Tuning software
http://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/default.asp
WinOLS costs approx 4000 euro, 1000 euro yearly updates and support, and between 100 and 500 for checksum algorhythms, which is for correction of the anti-coruption measures so that modifications are accepted by the ECU.
Internet and telephone charges - a mobile internet connection will be needed for transmitting files and information.
Basics-
If mobile, a van will be needed but most vehicles are able to comfortably carry the necessary equipment.
Pure sine wave power invertor
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am... - these will supply 240v power from a 12v car battery and are electronically smoothed to remove any electrical noise with may interfere with electronic equipment.
240v power will be needed for soldering, BDM programming, eprom reprogramming, and as a reserve power supply for the Stabilised power supply, or laptop charging.
Basic tools -
A complete set of small hand tools will be needed for access to ECUs and general automotive maintenance.
Diagnostics - Professional diagnostic systems are needed to check vehicles before and after for defects or malfunctions.
http://www.x431ltd.co.uk/website/Online_Shop.html
Approx 3000gbp, but cheaper versions can be bought for as little as 50gbp and used with a laptop.
For a static location, rent has to be considered, as well as all other usual expenses.
A rolling road for power testing and measuring can be installed, with prices ranging from 10k gbp for an inertia 2WD roller set to 45k gbp for a 4wd braked dyno
So -
One off -
laptop, flasher, BDM, eprommer, adaptors, soldering station, power supplies, basic tools.
Annual - Software updates
Consumables - Chips, tuning files, soldering equipment
Expenses - Fuel costs or Unit rental, phone, internet and website charges, Advertising.
For a basic mobile service-
The most important is a flasher, a communication device which can read, erase and reprogram the main memory in an ECU.
eg
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/hardware-byt...
the Byteshooter Basic (plus other models)
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/hardware-opt...
Optican Dual 2
These are available in 3 types in most cases.
Basic / Slave - it will encode files and only accept files written by a master unit of the same brand.
These are lower cost, and are designed for franchises where a dealer does not need to use the file themselves (these are sent to the master for modification)
Semi-master.
These will program both encrypted files from a Master unit, and uncoded files, and they will read files in an uncoded format which allows the operator to modify the files him or herself. What they will not do is encrypt files for a slave.
Master - the most expensive, and designed for the tuner/ modifier producing the files. These can read and write both encrypted and open files, but also encrypt them for security when being sent to franchises (This is to stop franchises repeated using files, rather than paying on a per car basis)
The flasher will cover many vehicles from 96 onwards, but not all. Other flasher are available with more specialised functionality, usually at a lower cost, but often at a reduced coverage.
Updates are often chargeable, at approx 1000 euro per year
The next major tool is a BDM interface (Background Debugging Module)
A BDM interface is a reprogramming device that uses a collection of pads/BDM port on a printed circuit board which is used to communicate directly with the processor, main memory, and a smaller eeprom that contains coding data such as Immobiliser data, fault codes and country variations.
http://chiptunawarehouse.com/ecutools/evc-bdm100-p...
The EVC BDM will also requre a positioning frame, and test heads for the ECU types, for example Bosch, Siemens, Marelli etc.
This is due to variations in port placement and design.
Updates are usually free.
BDM will cover more newer vehicles as it is a replication on the in-factory programming, but it does require ECU removal and disasembly.
Flashing or OBD tuning is done from inside the car using the OBD diagnostic communication port.
OBD flashing is prefered due to ease of use, but this does require manufacturers internal security measures to be discovered before communication can be made.
BDM tuning can repair ecus damaged by errors in OBD flashing, and change more coding data, but takes more time and skill.
The last main part is offboard Chip equipment. This consists of-
Soldering equipment-
http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=pr...
A rework station will be needed to remove and replace SMD (suraface mount) microchip memories. This will include a temperature controlled soldering iron, and hot air soldering iron from the removal and replacement of larger chips.
An eprom programmer
http://www.generaldevice.com/products/labtool48uxp...
This will read and program removed chips when the original chip is damaged, removable chips are being used, or other methods are inneffective.
With an eeprom programmer, a number of adaptors for different chip styles will be needed, with approx 4 main types being a must and others bought if needed. Approx cost of each adaptor is 70-90 GBP. Updates are usually free.
Other equipment needed -
Laptop for programming using the Flasher, BDM OR Eprommer.
http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/Panasonic-Toughbook_CF...
The laptops will be required to have USB and internet conectivity, serial ports are highly desirable, and their rugged nature will allow them to be used outside in varying weather conditions around vehicles where non-ruggedised may be damaged.
Stabilised Power supply
http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/RPP/RPP01.htm
Stabilised High amp power supplies are required during Flashing to avoid power fluctuations that may corrupt the new data. Many ECU's require >13v when being programmed and external stable power it needed during this phase, which may take 2 hours.
Consumables -
Soldering equipment such as solder and iron tips will be needed.
Memory chips - Spare and replacement chips will be needed, of approx 10-15 different basic types, and costs between 2 and 10 GBP each
Tuning files - If operating as a franchised dealer, modified files cost between 100-200 gbp each, written by a "Master" or unencrypted "open" files may cost between 500-4000gbp each.
Open files may be reused as many times as needed.
If you are able to modify the files yourself, you will need Tuning software
http://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/default.asp
WinOLS costs approx 4000 euro, 1000 euro yearly updates and support, and between 100 and 500 for checksum algorhythms, which is for correction of the anti-coruption measures so that modifications are accepted by the ECU.
Internet and telephone charges - a mobile internet connection will be needed for transmitting files and information.
Basics-
If mobile, a van will be needed but most vehicles are able to comfortably carry the necessary equipment.
Pure sine wave power invertor
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am... - these will supply 240v power from a 12v car battery and are electronically smoothed to remove any electrical noise with may interfere with electronic equipment.
240v power will be needed for soldering, BDM programming, eprom reprogramming, and as a reserve power supply for the Stabilised power supply, or laptop charging.
Basic tools -
A complete set of small hand tools will be needed for access to ECUs and general automotive maintenance.
Diagnostics - Professional diagnostic systems are needed to check vehicles before and after for defects or malfunctions.
http://www.x431ltd.co.uk/website/Online_Shop.html
Approx 3000gbp, but cheaper versions can be bought for as little as 50gbp and used with a laptop.
For a static location, rent has to be considered, as well as all other usual expenses.
A rolling road for power testing and measuring can be installed, with prices ranging from 10k gbp for an inertia 2WD roller set to 45k gbp for a 4wd braked dyno
So -
One off -
laptop, flasher, BDM, eprommer, adaptors, soldering station, power supplies, basic tools.
Annual - Software updates
Consumables - Chips, tuning files, soldering equipment
Expenses - Fuel costs or Unit rental, phone, internet and website charges, Advertising.
Thanks for that highly informative post Mr End.
One of the key deciders on my car purchase was the tuning abilities (VXR8) - for around £500 you have the choice of EFILIVE or HPTUNERS both of which allow access to both the engine and tranmission ECU's and even includes custom operating systems so you can remove the MAF etc.
One of the key deciders on my car purchase was the tuning abilities (VXR8) - for around £500 you have the choice of EFILIVE or HPTUNERS both of which allow access to both the engine and tranmission ECU's and even includes custom operating systems so you can remove the MAF etc.
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