Scottish Rally show?

[Reidy10_0]

http://www.ticketweb.co.uk/INFO/ROS/

Does anyone know anything about this?

Reidy

[malcysmith]

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

Point 1 = Right to Roam

and point 2 I refuse to line the pockets of IMS.

I for one will be attending with a large number of fellow rally fans and national rally drivers.

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

Malcolm

[Reidy10_0]

Wow!
You will need to fill us in a little, i just got a email from the SECC about it and did not read anymore in to it.

Cheers

[bigblock]

malcysmith said:

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

Point 1 = Right to Roam

and point 2 I refuse to line the pockets of IMS.

I for one will be attending with a large number of fellow rally fans and national rally drivers.

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

Malcolm

I think you are probably correct that the Right to Roam access legislation would enable you to enter the forrest stages without paying. However the organisers would be witin the law to charge you for parking at the stages and entrance to the service parks at Scone Palace,Blair Atholl and the finish at Stirling Castle. The difficulty of visiting the forest stages without a ticket is that you may be prevented from parking legaly anywhere witin walking distance of a viewing point. I suspect this is how they are going to 'police' the attendance of those who choose not to buy a ticket.
It does seem a shame that the organisers of a sport that has historicaly been free to spectate at feels the need to charge £50 to enable you to park your car and stand in a publicly owned forest.

[malcysmith]

That is exactly my issue BigBlock. The fact that they are going against everything the sport was about.

On a national level I attend virtually every Scottish Championship Round as well the majority of the tarmac and 205 events, whether in a service team capacity or as a spectator. I hold membership with one of the most prominent car clubs in Scotland also so I don't feel im complaining as a new comer to the sport by an means. The thing that therefore bothers me is that they are charging you for what precisely? I mean if you attend the British GP you will get toilet facilities, food and beverage sales points and a comfy seat if you pay the right amount.

Next weekend you are paying a minimum of £50, however if you want to park and visit a few stages your nearer £100. And all this for what? Standing in the forest watching 35 IRC Cars and around 40 National cars on the Saturday.

IMS have then had the cheek to say they expect to see crowd levels of well over 3 times what was at the McRae Stages for the memorial rally last year. However at the Errochty stage they only have one of the three car parks that was open the year of that rally. So how then are you going to park three times the spectators in a third of the car parks?

I can see numerous road closures due to "illegally" parked vehicles next week, and to be fair I feel that they have brought this on themselves.

Malcolm

[ScottishNut]

For every rally in Scotland, the right to roam legislation is suspended for the duration of the rally. This means that it is actually illegal to enter the forest during this time as it is private land and the organising club have the say over who enters and who cant. It would never happen but you techically would be trespassing and could find yourself in court.

The maximum you should pay for the whole weekend is £50 as a spectator, this is for the access all areas pass. If you can only make one day for example, £15 will get you a day pass.

I am in no way condoning the whole paying to stand in a forest thing as I have an issue with it as well. If your a real enthusiast then you'll generally find your own way into the woods and cause no problem to anyone (as happens at WRGB). The problem comes from the 'nedish' society and those who are new to the sport, and the spectator areas are aimed at them so they can be monitored/informed about goings on as appropriate.

Enjoy your weekend, I know I will (and I won't be paying!) ;-)

[northo]

One of the issues here is the large amounts of money it costs to organise and run a rally. Health and Safety and other regulations mean it is not possible to host a rally on the cheap anymore, like in the good old days of the 80's and 90's. I understand that those who have been used to watching rallying free (I am one of them - The Lombard RAC used to go right past my house and there was a forest stage a mile away) feel that they shouldn't have to start paying, and rallying has always been the Everyman form of motorsport. However, consider how much it would cost to take your family to any other event/ day out, let alone a motorsport one. On that basis, IRC Scotland is good value

And before you ask, no, I've got nothing to do with the rally.

[kmm]

[quote=ScottishNut]For every rally in Scotland, the right to roam legislation is suspended for the duration of the rally. This means that it is actually illegal to enter the forest during this time as it is private land and the organising club have the say over who enters and who cant. It would never happen but you techically would be trespassing and could find yourself in court. /quote]

I am not right in saying that there is no trespassing law in Scotland. The land owner can ask you to leave his/her land but that's about it. Different if you are damaging the land.
I've done lots of forest driving down at Lochgilphead and from memory the forest roads are owned by the Queen or something. If you drive them without permission then the police will do you. Maybe someone can clarify this. What stops you parking on the road-side as long as it's not causing an obstruction, and walking in. I wouldn't pay £50 and was surprised when someone told me the price today after i asked if he was going.

[malcysmith]

The costs of the Rally should be covered by the entries paid by the competitors. This has worked for years and no one has introduced charging previously. This rally is also covered by Eurosport and i would imagine money will have changed hands somewhere there, hence the cost of the rally need not be met by spectators.

Hope its a good weekend though, Meeke v McRae will be good.

Malcolm

[northo]

malcysmith said:

The costs of the Rally should be covered by the entries paid by the competitors. This has worked for years and no one has introduced charging previously. This rally is also covered by Eurosport and i would imagine money will have changed hands somewhere there, hence the cost of the rally need not be met by spectators.

Hope its a good weekend though, Meeke v McRae will be good.

Malcolm

What is the entry fee and how many competitors are there?

[malcysmith]

Entry fee varies based on what class your running.

Manufacturers £2,300:
Others/Legal £2,300:
Amateur/Private £1,495:
National B £402.50:

Now the entry is nothing like what was originally expected. As such entry has been extended I think three times now with the hope of enticing more drivers. The cost for the National B was also reduced.

Now the Scottish Government also put aside £800,000.00 as far as I understand it for the next two/three years. I cant remember if this amount covered the three years or was on a yearly basis. Event Scotland have also put forward finances as well as Perth and Stirling's local authorities.

Cost has been more than met I would have said by both entries and other public funding alike. The cost of watching the rallying I would therefore presume is purely for profit.

Malcolm

[northo]

So, as it stands we are guessing at the level of funding, but I am guessing that there is pot of around £70,000 from entries. Event Scotland will put a bit in, and the £800k from the Government sounds optimistic. Any guesses what it costs to run a rally? As for the profit - god forbid that someone should make some money from all the hard work

[Reidy10_0]

Any prize money?

[S2_DPD]

malcysmith said:

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

.......

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

So you expect; sign makers, rally officials, police, ambulance crews, manufacturers of red & white tape, foresters, insurance companies, health & safety inspectors, ..., ... to work and/or provide goods for free? Impressed!

Next time anybody here wants some building surveying done, you'll be offering a professional service FOC then?

[scoby87]

S2_DPD said:

malcysmith said:

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

.......

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

So you expect; sign makers, rally officials, police, ambulance crews, manufacturers of red & white tape, foresters, insurance companies, health & safety inspectors, ..., ... to work and/or provide goods for free? Impressed!

Next time anybody here wants some building surveying done, you'll be offering a professional service FOC then?

Every other national rally manages to run year after year without charging spectators, how do you suppose they do it? Money from entries, and a little funding from the local authorities! And still the car clubs responsible for organising the rally, generally, make a small profit.

[S2_DPD]

scoby87 said:

S2_DPD said:

malcysmith said:

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

.......

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

So you expect; sign makers, rally officials, police, ambulance crews, manufacturers of red & white tape, foresters, insurance companies, health & safety inspectors, ..., ... to work and/or provide goods for free? Impressed!

Next time anybody here wants some building surveying done, you'll be offering a professional service FOC then?

Every other national rally manages to run year after year without charging spectators, how do you suppose they do it? Money from entries, and a little funding from the local authorities! And still the car clubs responsible for organising the rally, generally, make a small profit.

"generally, make a small profit" - sounds like a weak message when trying to secure financial backing in this tough climate? Every sponsor wants the event to be well funded, well advertised, well run and return again next year bigger and better.

How can any comparable sport be expected to commercially re-invest in itself and thrive when it expects the competitors and local authority to foot the bill, allowing spectators experience it for free? You can imagine the local authority council meeting agenda "repair the library roof or subsidise this years rally?"

Why not spectators subsidise the competitor’s entry fees a little?

[scoby87]

S2_DPD said:

scoby87 said:

S2_DPD said:

malcysmith said:

Its an absolute disgrace and goes against everything that rallying has ever stood for as a sport in both Scotland and the UK as a whole. if you buy a ticket your simply stupid.

.......

None of us will be paying and im still struggling to comprehend how they intend to police it.

So you expect; sign makers, rally officials, police, ambulance crews, manufacturers of red & white tape, foresters, insurance companies, health & safety inspectors, ..., ... to work and/or provide goods for free? Impressed!

Next time anybody here wants some building surveying done, you'll be offering a professional service FOC then?

Every other national rally manages to run year after year without charging spectators, how do you suppose they do it? Money from entries, and a little funding from the local authorities! And still the car clubs responsible for organising the rally, generally, make a small profit.

"generally, make a small profit" - sounds like a weak message when trying to secure financial backing in this tough climate? Every sponsor wants the event to be well funded, well advertised, well run and return again next year bigger and better.

How can any comparable sport be expected to commercially re-invest in itself and thrive when it expects the competitors and local authority to foot the bill, allowing spectators experience it for free? You can imagine the local authority council meeting agenda "repair the library roof or subsidise this years rally?"

Why not spectators subsidise the competitor’s entry fees a little?

Why should spectators subsidise our hobby? and I say that as a driver

the small profit I was talking about goes to the car club who organise the event, and is in no way a return to any sponsor the rally may have. A sponsor doesn't support the rally with the aim of getting a financial return from the rally profits, but to advertise the company? and as for the local authority, they give usually very little funding, if any in some cases, in the knowing that the rally will bring people into the locals towns and villages and spend money, oh and i'm quite sure the library roof repairs and funding in this nature will come from a different budget?

[malcysmith]

Thanks for the small personal mention there David. The difference between the comparisons you have used is vast. Firstly nobody would expect work out a Building Surveyor for nothing. You wouldn't lift the phone and expect to pay nothing for the services. With the rallying, for years in this country access has been free for spectators. It is understood that when the spectators are not charged that more will come. The money that this can bring to a local area is vast. Take the Tour of Mull for example it is well known that the local economy recieves a huge boost over the space of four days of the year. The costs of the Rally are virtually always met by either entrance costs for drivers, public funding or car clubs own accounts. The only way a rally will ever receive public funding is if its seen to benefit the local area in a big way. The likes of the IRC etc should do this. As for the likes of reinvesting in itself, its worked for the last 60 odd years so why should it suddenly change now? The costs for a four day rally in current terms are not vastly different to what would have been charged in the 70's and 80's for example.

The red and white tape, time boards, and all associated signage is owned by club and is seen as a one off cost. The same signs are used year after year. The likes of marshalls and organisers don't get paid. Motorsport ambulance crews do get paid as do the local police, scrutineers etc. This is all covered under entry cost or any funding.

Tell me David if the costs were to high for the competitors, why has virtually every National B event in Scotland received higher entries this year than last? Also some of the Rallys, for example the Snowman actually reduced their fee from last year.

Malcolm

[S2_DPD]

You’re passionate about your own sport, that’s great.

The nature of my original reply was in response to your labelling the general population as stupid if they bought a ticket to watch this event - personally feel this is a bit of an over-generalisation, bordering on insult?

[northo]

S2_DPD said:

You’re passionate about your own sport, that’s great.

The nature of my original reply was in response to your labelling the general population as stupid if they bought a ticket to watch this event - personally feel this is a bit of an over-generalisation, bordering on insult?

I'm sure the many thousands of people who have bought tickets would agree.